Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7mm Nosler 160 accubond....is it tough.?

Mule deer.... I sure I understand the deflection thing.... but my "imagination" tells me a plastic tip sitting over a pretty massive fragile hollow point nicking almost anything could start expansion right then and there. Slow mo vids of Barnes Bullets sure make it look like it happens immediately on ballistic gel which is pretty soft.... and I envision Barnes tips as probably being tougher than it is on plastic tip jacketed bullets.
Of course this is all guessing on my part it would be interesting to see if there's any slow mo vids out there by the manufacturers testing this.... I'm going to add another guess that they very well might be and they wouldn't want us to see what happens...lol. for sure would be pretty easy to test.

I've put a few 160 AB's through elk shoulders out of a STW. So no, it's not soft by any means.

Can you believe it, this guy run almost 50 yards instead of DRT after being shot from about 40 yards out of 7mm RM. Must the factory load I was using last month. So no, 160gr AccuBond is definitelly not tough.

kraky,

Expansion starts with MOST expanding bullets the instant the bullet hits an animal's skin. It doesn't matter whether the bullet is plastic-tipped, softpoint or hollow-point--if the bullet's going to open up at all it starts on impact, and is usually fully expanded by the time it penetrates its own length.

The exception is a few "target" type bullets like the Berger VLD, with a long "hollow point" tip that's actually completely or nearly closed, with some air-space between the tip and the lead core. These normally puncture the skin without expanding, then as they penetrate a couple inches the thin, air-filled tip of the jacket collapses rather than "mushrooms," and the bullet expands.

Why would the plastic tips on Barnes bullets be "tougher" than on jacketed bullets?

I use a 160 accubond at 3000fps for everything from small TX deer-elk-Kudu etc. Never an issue.

I've never doubted expansion begins immediately upon hitting an animal with most bullets. what I do wonder about is the differences in reaction on a plastic tip thin jacketed bullet with a hollow point when it hit's a tiny twig or a few Blades of grass BEFORE hitting the animal.
Of course there wouldn't be any difference in the quality probably of a plastic tip between a ballistic tip an accubond or a TTSX.... but I do think there are huge differences in the depth and width and makeup of the hollow point itself. somehow I think a lead filled hollow point...ie cup n core ....could be much better than air filled hollow point under a plastic tip.
And quite possibly the good old round nose bullet of 25 years ago could be better than all of them...hitting tiny amounts of trash on its way to the animal.
I guess the easiest way to summarize what I'm trying to say is if a worker at the Nosler Factory was installing tips incorrectly on bullets and it turned them into fragile blow up on impact projectiles couldn't a piece of twig or grass do the same thing?

IMO you are overthinking the bullet capability. Hitting a twig, grass, or whatever would most likely deflect the bullet in some degree.

My suggestion is: make a clean shot without hitting anything. Placement is more important than comparing bullet to bullet. Just about any 160gr bullet will be a clean kill with a proper placement.

If you cant take a clean shot, DONT SHOOT!

SH.... of course I understand what you're saying. In our area of Northern Wisconsin there's kind of like two different kinds of hunting. There's the guys with private land who can cut out shooting lanes and spend time all fall baiting deer or setting up food plots. They basically pre-plan the shot.
then there's the rest of us like me who go hunt public land.
I should probably admit I'm getting too old to be stalking and driving through some of this stuff there are plenty of areas where you wont see a deer 25 yards away the crap is so thick.... and guess where you see all of last night's Deer beds.....lol!
That's a beautiful elk by the way!

Would think it plenty tough, have been considering it for an all game bullet for my Montana 280 AI, will be looking for accuracy at 3K.

kraky,

Yes, you are over-thinking the "deflectibility" of plastic-tipped bullets. I have seen a 250-grain Nosler Partition from a .338 Winchester Magnum (muzzle velocity 2650 fps) deflect so completely on a tiny twig, at most the diamater of a soda-straw, that it tipped completely sideways before hitting an eland. And not only was there a perfect silhouette of the bullet through the hide, but the twig had been so close to the eland at the shot that swirls were visible in the very short hair from the twig's branches being slapped against the eland by the bullet.

That was a soft-nosed spitzer, but Craig Boddington also had a big round-nosed solid (as I remember a 500-grain .470) deflected by a twig the size of his finger. He'd aimed at a Cape buffalo's shoulder at typical very close range while hunting in thick thornbush, and at the shot the bull collapsed, dead. But the bullet had not hit the shoulder. Instead it hit the neck, sideways, a matter of at least three feet of deflection across a few yards, and happened to break the spine.

If you want to run some tests, trying to prove your hypothesis that plastic-tipped bullets will deflect more when hitting something in front of an animal, I would suggest also shooting some heavy softpoints and even blunt-nosed solids. But based on far more examples than the two above, I suspect the results won't confirm your hypothesis.

I haven't made myself very clear I'm not talking about bullet deflection I'm talking about the bullet being damaged in a way that compromises its toughness when it does get to the animal.
Re deflection..... years ago two buddies of mine got in an argument about the best brush busting bullet one guy said his 243 would do everything the other guys Muzzleloader did.
They set up a large piece of cardboard with a big orange circle behind some brush and leta number of rounds go from each gun.... the bottom line from their hillbilly experiment was that the 243 made it to the cardboard just as well as the muzzleloader bullet... I never did ask them if there were sideways bullet holes or not but the actual experiment was to see if they would even make it there...

You're right, you didn't explain it very clearly. But why would being deflected change a bullet's "toughness"?

I ran basically the same test many years ago with a .243 Winchester with 105-grain Speer spitzers and a .358 Winchester with 250-grain Hornady roundnoses. The .243 actually did somewhat better, I would guess because the smaller diameter result in hitting fewer twigs.

Because I "imagine" the tip pushing down into the hollow point cavity and starting expansion....just from nipping a twig...or grass. AND I also imagine it wouldn't have to be a symmetrical expansion of the tip... I think crazy things can happen at high speed and I can even imagine one side of the hollow point cavity somewhat tearing away while the other side stays there...a total compromise from tip to near ogive.
Then when it hits the animal things really go bad.

Interesting result...120 bt slow speed water jug test....
and I'm guessing this didn't hit anything on its way...

https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=33882

Kracky,

You are over obsession over the plastic tip.

The whole point of the plastic tip was to create a bullet tip that deformed LESS in the magazine due to recoil.

The purpose of the exposed lead on a spiral tip bullet is to initiate expansion, same as the plastic tip, and even a "tough" spiral point can exhibit violent initial expansion. One of the worse messes I've even seen was from a 270 Win, factory loaded 130gr Nosler Partition. It was about a 40 shoulder shot, but the kid did get his first antelope with one DRT shot.

As for the 160gr NAB, in the 7 STW it's my go to bullet. I've killed critters with it from 25 to 1000 yards. At the long side of those ranges the game looks like it was hit with a 30-30.

On one very up close shot, about 50 yards raking shot just behind the shoulder, with the impact velocity over 3400, it left a hole I could drop a grape fruit in with out touching the side of the entrance hole.

I found it in just under the skin of the opposite quarter.

[img:center][/img]

My opinion I'm not sure anything the happy accubond users can say to make you comfortable with the accubond and it's plastic tip.

Too many other things to worry about that going into a hunt than worries about a bullet you are not 100% comfortable with.

There are simply to many quality bullets out there to lose sleep over one. Grab one you have comfort in and going hunting.

Have a good one.

KInd of old pics, but the old 30-30, firing 170 Core-lokts, planted the shots in the cardboard in various states of expansion and orientation. Twigs were struck around 6-8 feet in front of the target.

Excellent test Klik...

Thanks to all who responded.

I'm probably full of $#!t but I think the idea of a brush bullet is an urban myth. Don't see lead tip vs plastic making a difference.

Hello MD,

After reading this, I have a question: An Accubond not bonded is not a Ballistic Tip..? If it is, a 160 grs one at 2600/2700 fps muzzle velocity (7-08 and/or 7x57) should work very well!!!
Thank you!

PH