Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Case Closed: FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round

Ok.



Dave

Same.

Modern 9mm ammo is very effective, as is 45ACP. But the reduced recoil and increased capacity tilt the equation towards the 9mm. It is also less expensive (less lead, brass, powder required), so training can cost less and you'll get more shots per dollar!

True, but the 9mm is effective. Yes, with proper hits, the 40 and 45's are effective, but how much more effective does a cartridge have to be to do the same job. Hitting the target is the most important attribute, all else follows.

If accuracy is important we should carry folding stock 10/22's according to the Blue Press.
Head shots with a 22 are better than misses with a double stack pray and spray 9mm.

A 22LR does not meet the requirements cited in the report.




Dave

I must say, I never really counted my hi cap 9 as a spray and pray.

I considered it an opportunity to kill more bad guys.

I hate missing.

Maybe that's why I use a 22 centerfire for deer.....

Having plenty of rounds available in a gunfight is always a good thing.
Bob

Success comes from having the proper aim as well as the right ammunition.

finally got around to viewing this video that Dave in WV posted earlier:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA



informative, yet somewhat perplexing too...

if one factors out his comments on rifles--and only focus on handguns--a few points he notes might be:


1. six out of seven victims (about 86%), shot with handguns survive. quick, critical care is a factor though. in hollywood style, likely many of these victims are only hit once--or twice--like the guy in the video at the 14:40 mark. "multiple hits" aren't really addressed.

2. he does indicate a lack of penetration--likely due to fragmentation--as an issue. while he is referring to the results on expanding bullets with actual victims--in testing pills in wood, wetlap, water, etc., at times the failure in hollow points is the nose turning inward--resulting in essentially a fmj. occasionally, there is core and jacket separation--but the core often plows on ahead, somewhat like a swaged lead pill would do. this was especially the case with many pills of yesteryear.

3. he notes--for lack of a better phrase--the "vertical axis" which is quite narrow, and a change in target design to reflect that. true, as in a decent target, this area is essentially about 6 inches wide and 20 inches high.

4. one is left with the impression that he believes or indicates that there isn't much delta in the effective performance of the "Big 3" (9 MM, .40 S&W, and .45 Auto), and indicates that it depends on the chance that the pill will penetrate enough and perhaps sever a vessel, etc.

5. yet curiously (while he was talking about rounds at 12:35 in the video), he indicates that a heavier, bigger pill will cause more damage and injury, resulting in more bleeding.



perhaps a little confusing, but worth viewing...

I never felt undergunned with 40 rounds of 45 on my belt


Nor with 46 rounds of 357 sig

As far as one shot stops go unless a CNS hit is made you can't count on one shot doing the trick. It would seem that the more damage done the faster our bad guy will die. Way back when the aluminum jacketed "Silvertips" came out my partner was all over them because they really did expand out of his 45, Hooray! I always ran hardball and still do. Anyway one day he was trading hate with a human trafficker outside of Laredo who was hiding behind an empty steel 55 gallon drum. Not sure either knew at first the drum was empty. Wess centers the drum 3 times with the hollow points wherein the bad guy throws his gun over the drum and surrenders. Wondering why the suspect was unhurt he walks over to look at the drum and finds that two of his bullets didn't make it through the drum just denting the second side and one is hanging out of a hole in the drum which is probably the one that caused our bad guy to surrender. That was many years ago but he immediately switched back to hardball. Department regs have forced him to carry a 40 in recent years but he likes bullets that will go through both sides of an empty 55 gallon drum to this day. He is pissed that soon he will have to get a 9MM for his service pistol but will probably run the flat nosed 147 grain subsonic round because it will for certain penetrate the steel drum barrier. His backup pistol for years has been some sort of 9MM, currently a S&W Shield and he went to the trouble of finding out what will give him what he considers minimum penetration. He practices a lot with his hideout guns, enough so he actually puts real wear and tear on them. He recently retired a Ruger LCP because it went sloppy on him. Penetration means different things to different people!

Which (LE) department authorizes non-expanding flat nose duty ammo for their service pistol? Sounds way outside the norm.

Sounds like a perfect application for the 357 Sig.

FBI is in cahoots with the manufacturers, just like the gun writers. Every so often another caliber or system becomes the latest greatest darling and let the churning begin. It's good for the economy, doncha know?

That about sums it up.

No shiet... and their articles, ads and gubbermit studies should end with "Love you long time GI!!" At least you'd know that you're likely to get screwed- and it's going to cost you money.

I've met him several times in various forms at gun counters and ranges. He will regale you with great tales of bravery, wisdom and extraordinary marksmanship............using the cup and saucer technique. The audience is in for a treat every time.

Shanghai Municipal Police, circa 1938....

http://www.specops.pl/vortal/download/files/shooting_to_live.pdf

we will give an example of a practice frequently carried out with good results. It is designed not only as a test of skill with the pistol under difficult conditions, but also as a test of bodily fitness and agility, qualities which to the policeman at any rate are every bit as necessary in the circumstances which are so often encountered in shooting affrays.

In this practice, which we have called "The Pursuit" the shooter is started off at the run, outside the range, on an obstacle course consisting of jumping a ditch, running across a plank over water,
crawling through a suspended barrel, climbing a
rope, a ladder, and over a wall, finishing up with a
100 yards dash ending at 4 yards from the targets.

Without warning or waiting, two surprise targets are
pulled, one after tho other, and at each he fires a
“burst" of three shots. The targets are exposed for
no longer than it takes to fire three shots at the
highest possible speed.

..and the "fun house"...

All they see from the outside is a wall with a door through which, one by one, they will have to enter the lodging house. No one knows what he will encounter inside, and the only instructions given are that innocent civilians are not to be "killed", such actions likely to impeded promotion.

The first man to shoot pushes in the door, closely followed by the range officer, and proceeds with caution or with reckless abandon, according to his nature, along a dark, narrow, twisting passage, kicks open a door at one point, descends a few steps, treads on floor boards which give way under him,climbs some more steps and os and finds himself in a dimly lit room occupied by apparently harmless people (dummies) who vary from mere lodgers to dope fiends or stool-pigeons.

He has to take in the situation in a flash, for his appearance is the signal for the fun to commence. A shot is fired at him a (blank cartridge in the control room), and the criminals commence their “get-away" ("criminals" are life-sized targets that bob up from nowhere and disappear quickly, heads and shoulders that peer
at him round a corner, men running swiftly across the room, possibly at an oblique angle etc, all masked at point in their careers by the “innocent bystanders", who must not be shot)...

Egad, on the link skip down to page 84- Chapter VII on "STOPPING POWER"...

http://www.specops.pl/vortal/download/files/shooting_to_live.pdf


Pretty much the same arguments rehashed on this thread along with real-world failures to stop involving .455 Webleys and .45 ACPs vs. a chance one-shot stop with a .380.

To sum up, all that we have done in this chapter is to provide instances of now various types of weapons and their loads have not run true to form. Preconceived ideas, based upon experience or perhaps hearsay, seem to have been upset.....

But he closes the chapter with this....

Throughout this book we have done our best to emphasise the vital need for extreme rapidity of fire... The more closely our own pistols resemble machine-guns the better we like it.

Birdwatcher