Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Home Defense 300BLK SBR Questions

I've got some 230 gr HST bullets fired through water jugs that look awesome with the full mushroom shape and sharp edges. But I've got some fired through wood that didn't open and penetrated way past the 3 water jug length. Gold dots did the same.

Speed kills and things moving around 3000 fps are a pretty safe bet.

The Colt 9mm carbine I had was a fun toy but nothing else.

Grab some sheet rock, wood and water jugs and see where you want to place your bet.

One consideration in some houses and communities is IF you want wall penetration.

Don't much care here if it over penetrates,never had kids, closest house is 300 yards or more....across the road.

But RE the 9mm carbines... a buddy has one, I was not impressed that much with the idea, but after killing a lot of varmints with it, I'm actually impressed what a 9mm 124 bullet does to yotes/coons/possums/dillos etc... even gar and carp.

I"m not saying its good for 2 legged but its done WAY better than I expected.

RE pistol better than rifle, well flipping duh, I didn't think anyone would need to say that, but then again pistols kill fine, it seems to just take longer to die, so the DRT kind of thing isn't often happening with one except CNS... Hell from stuff I've seen video wise you may not even know if you are hitting someone.

House wise... we have a shotgun by the bed, along with a 9mm glock, and sometimes an M4 type clone or AR of some type. Likely I"d grab the handgun out of instinct in the house, backed by the shotgun, and if I have to go outside, grab the AR. But in reality if I had to pick one of three, the AR would get the nod.

RE some comments about the 300/221 and 194 lehighs, they work REALLY well on deer and pigs.. but again getting an DRT isn't happening unless CNS hits. OTOH I"ve used a buddys super sonic one with 110 barnes TAC and I've not had a single DRT on pigs yet. Same shot placements. In fact for some weird reason the supersonic pigs have run a bit further on average, but better trails and all dead.

Regardless, the 300/221 with supers will be as hearing safe as need be, with a suppressor inside the house.
Which to me is really moot, I think the chances of ever actually havign to shoot inside your house is about .0001 percent or such... and hearing is the last thing I"d worry about in that situation personally... I would be worried actually more about muzzle flash if that...

A lot of misconceptions.....

You have to understand terminal ballistics- in this instance the permanent crush cavity and temporary stretch cavity. The permanent crush cavity is the permanent wound of crushed and damaged tissue. The temporary stretch cavity is the temporary wound caused by the passing of the bullet that stretches the tissue radially outward. In pistols (velocity under around 2,200fps) the temporary stretch cavity is NOT a significant factor in wounding due to the elasticity of most tissue. Velocity over that IS a significant wounding factor as the tissue will tear and fissure. So looking at slowmo gel block shots that look impressive of pistol rounds is deceiving as the TC is not really effectual. With pistols the permanent cavity is only about as big as the bullet diameter i.e.- what the bullet physically touches. .


Increasing velocity of 45acp from 800fps to even 1,600fps does not change the Permanent cavity. The problem is that being the only wounding being done is what the bullet physically touches, the bullets are designed to achieve full upset (mushroom) at a certain velocity, in this case 800-900fps, at velocities over that range the petals will over expand, fold back or tear off causing the wound to be a narrower diameter.




There is no comparison in wounding potential between pistol and rifle cartridges.










As for shotguns, while 12 gauge buckshot can be devastating at close range, shotguns are more complicated to manipulate, significant recoil and muzzle flip slowing follow up shots,, hold less rounds, and are range limited. Despite what most seem to think shotguns are not death rays and DO have to be aimed.

Most people, especially non gun people, would be best served with a properly set up AR variant. They are simpler to use, require less manipulations, and have less recoil and muzzle flip allowing after follow up shots. They are easier to mount a flashlight and white light as well.

I watched a guy pattern a Benelli M4 at the range one day - I was thinking of buying one and was curious to see what it did. He was using buckshot, and the load made about a 6 inch pattern at 25 yards. Yeah, you have to aim them just as well as a pistol or rifle. I guess some sort of "spreader load" might open the pattern better for short ranges, but then you may not hit the attacker with the whole load.

That Benelli in question was choked to some degree. No other way to hold a 6" pattern at 25yds.

But the fact remains a shotgun does need to be aimed/accurately pointed at the target, and Hollywood has created a very inaccurate portrayal of how they really work.

Several years ago I took a friend coyote hunting in the sandhills at night. At my suggestion he brought a Black Eagle loaded with #4 buckshot. We had a full moon that was bright enough to read a newspaper by and about a foot of snow. We were set up in a newly planted shelter belt with cedars that were about chest high. First squeal on an AP-6 brought a small 'yote running in. She slowed to a walk and finally sat down about 25-30 yards out. Tim was sitting with his arms braced on his knees, aimed and touched it off - and never touched a hair.

Tim shoots trap and skeet 9 months of the year; he owns a membership in a private waterfowl club and spends every weekend of the season in a blind; he shoots turkeys spring and fall. When I asked him, "What the Hell...?" He said he was breathing so hard and shaking so much that he couldn't focus on the target so he just shot...

Yeah, you have to aim!

this thread makes me laugh

As usual thats a lot of help.

Nice.....

For the house, I'd keep about 16" of barrel, and roll with the 110gr VMax, at 2400 fps.

A can will eliminate the flash, too.

Anyone want to comment on the practical difference between the 300BO with its best bullets, and the 7.62x39, with 123gr softpoints?

Since I actually do have the parts to assemble a PSA in the cartridge.

I read great things about some of the 110 bullet offerings out there. Some with near 100% fragmentation specs and nice short penetration- impressive. I can also appreciate the added usable range the supers would give me that the subs can't match over about 50 yards if the fight ends up outside at all.

I have a friend that was a police sharpshooter and he said for non barrier urban sniping type targets they used Hornady 110 grain Tap Urban in .308. He shared a story where they had a hostage taker and the only shot they had was at his face. He said that bullet was like a tiny grenade went off in his head.

subs work for me on deer out to 175 yards... not sure at all where the idea is they ain't good past 50...? They do drop but the energy is fine, and the 194 lehighs retain close to 100% weight and have never not opened and generally about 2.5x expansion . Just as an FYI.

so there is zero utility for a pistol caliber carbine, interesting.

In addition to what Formo has correctly stated above, a suppressed AR, wether shooting subs or supers, will measure around 140db at the shooter's ear. You're dramatically reducing your ballistic effectiveness without gaining any significatnly measurable reduction in sound (at the shooter's position) by going to subs. Others in the house will be exposed to less overall noise, but you're not really doing yourself the favor you think you are by going to subs. I'd suggest 110 Barnes or 125 OTM supers that are engineered for performance at BO velocities. 8.5"-10.5" barrels, IME.

As to the 300BLK, I have nothing bad to say, a SR30 w/ a QDC suppressor is a wicked little beast, be it subsonic or supersonic. For what it is intended to do, nothing else, including the 5.56, can.

A 110 Barnes TAC-TX can run 2100+fps from an 8.5", will expand immediately, and will still penetrate 20" of ballistic gel. Rather nice marriage for an effective SBR at close quarters. Likely best choice in such platform for home defense.

Not saying you can't kill something with subs out at 50-100+ but in defense of the supers, they would be a faster, flatter trajectory, and easier to predict impact point down range. Honestly, this is one of those things that people could argue about for 10 pages as usual on the campfire. I'm just listening to peoples' advice. And although I do read that the subs would be noticeably quieter suppressed, especially in an enclosed space, I can see the argument for the supers as well. If there are offerings that provide less likelihood of over penetration, have higher terminal kinetic energy in the target, and also provides some additional flatter trajectory ballistics in case the fight ends up outside, they are certainly worth considering imo.

Thanks for everyone's input,
Rob

Thats why I said... FYI...

I"m not worried about noise in the house if i have to kill someone. That will be my last worry.

It will be if you have to shoot, move and communicate.

Even ear muffs with an electronic cut-off are better than nothing.

I suspect you may have fired a rifle in an enclosed environment, but its a one-time and hearing loss event.

That's why the Marines are looking at cans on every M4.

Ditto with flash. Not an issue if you fire once, but a firefight is a completely different issue.

A can solves both.