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Joined: Jan 2001
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
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You could go your whole life, and never miss that insurance card.
OTOH, you're always 1 sarcoma away from lifetime financial disaster. My 1st wife had cancer and that little card paid over $100k before she died. Without it, I would have been left with bills I could never hope to pay.
Can you be sure that you will always get home from work without tangling with a truck?


With premiums what they are today, you could pay off that medical bill in under 10 years instead of paying the premium.

I would have no problem paying a reasonable premium for catastrophic coverage, and pay out of pocket for dr's visits, prescriptions etc.

The problem is two fold. People who go to the dr. for every sniffle, and people who are on expensive medications for a variety of things that are based on their own bad decisions.

Boner medicines, birth control pills, fat pills (cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc., et al) and so on should be 100% covered by those who choose the medicine.

But there is a whole lot of personal responsibility that would be required to drop medical costs, and I don't see that happening with most people in our society.

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One of the things the Doctor who wrote what the OP posted says "Most people, of course, do need medical care at some point. If they are uninsured, they can go to the doctor and whip out their checkbook, just like your mother or grandmother did, and just like you probably do at the veterinarian’s, the dentist’s, the massage therapist’s, or the mechanic’s". Really? The biggest Vet bill I ever had was $2500.00. Dentist? $5,000.00 Therapists I don't use. Mechanics? Maybe $4500 for an engine. On the other hand I had a heart attack that cost $60,000.00 My wife had cancer treatments that cost over $100,000.00. My mother and grandmother never had to write a check for as much as 10% of those amounts and they couldn't have if they wanted to. Her point is taken but needs a dose of reality. Most people cannot deal with a major medical disaster cost. It would wipe them out.

In the area of the country that I live, at the present time, there are very few independent doctors in private practice. Most are contracted with large health care provider groups that own the hospitals, diagnostics, treatment, and special facilities. They buy up most of the surgical centers and specialist groups. There is no market competition whatsoever. I am not too sure those folks are going to reduce their rates even if we take the government out of the rules and regulations column.

I had the catastrophic insurance plan for years. I paid between $5000 and $10,000 a year of costs and it would pay the rest. It was nice and it was cheap. It is gone now and it's resurrection isn't very likely in my opinion.


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Originally Posted by stantdm
One of the things the Doctor who wrote what the OP posted says "Most people, of course, do need medical care at some point. If they are uninsured, they can go to the doctor and whip out their checkbook, just like your mother or grandmother did, and just like you probably do at the veterinarian’s, the dentist’s, the massage therapist’s, or the mechanic’s". Really? The biggest Vet bill I ever had was $2500.00. Dentist? $5,000.00 Therapists I don't use. Mechanics? Maybe $4500 for an engine. On the other hand I had a heart attack that cost $60,000.00 My wife had cancer treatments that cost over $100,000.00. My mother and grandmother never had to write a check for as much as 10% of those amounts and they couldn't have if they wanted to. Her point is taken but needs a dose of reality. Most people cannot deal with a major medical disaster cost. It would wipe them out.

In the area of the country that I live, at the present time, there are very few independent doctors in private practice. Most are contracted with large health care provider groups that own the hospitals, diagnostics, treatment, and special facilities. They buy up most of the surgical centers and specialist groups. There is no market competition whatsoever. I am not too sure those folks are going to reduce their rates even if we take the government out of the rules and regulations column.

I had the catastrophic insurance plan for years. I paid between $5000 and $10,000 a year of costs and it would pay the rest. It was nice and it was cheap. It is gone now and it's resurrection isn't very likely in my opinion.

The reason for the huge charges is because they bill the insurance company, which pays it because they charge so much to the insured in premiums that they can afford to. Change all that around, and all prices would dramatically go down. That's the nature of a free market.

As for catastrophic coming back, the only thing preventing it is government regulation essentially outlawing it. Remove that, and demand for it will bring it right back at a competitive price.

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Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
I think Trump and the republican congress is high on Health Savings accounts. Everyone pays for the routine smaller ticket items . . . insurance pays for the catastrophic illnesses. It still won't help the sick, lame, and lazy indigents laying sideways in the public trough, but it is a good start at replacing obongo-care.


Yep.


Retired cat herder.


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I think that part of the reason the charges are high is because there are so many people who have no insurance that they don't get paid and pass the cost on to us who do pay. It is cheaper for these people to pay the penalty than to buy insurance.

An example: I was charged $750 for a nurse anesthetist by a surgery center. The insurance company paid them $180.00 which the provider accepted. I might have been able to negotiate a cheaper amount on my own but probably would not have gotten down to $180.00. I can go through bill after bill where the insurance company paid from 15% to 75% of the providers charge. While I am sure your example is right in some cases, companies like BCBS don't pay what is billed. They pay what they think the UCR is and they are the ones who set the UCR.

The reason I don't see catastrophic coming back at reasonable rates is because there are fewer people who can afford the deductibles today than there were eight years ago. (At least that is what I read)

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I think we can all agree, that a free market healtcare, is the cheapest and most efficient one.

However, when looking at US healthcare compared to the rest of the industrialised world, the US pays almost 2x more then any other country on healthcare.. and recive worse treatment. ( very specialized healthcare, for a few rare diseases are better in the US ).

20-30.000 used to die in the US, each year because of lack of healtcare.


Follow the money.. who makes money on the system beeing partly privatized / socialised. The insurance and drug companies!

They want to keep everything as complicated as possible.

If you want the US to be the special snowflake in the world that keeps wanting to privatize the healthcare system, expect to pay a premium. The incentives for the insurance and drug companies is to gouge the american people.. and they keep paying politicians to do so!


The US in the last 40 years:

Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex

&

Rugged individualism for the individual.
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Idunno....my insurance cost for me is about 2400 a year (group policy). My catastrophic hand injury early this year would have been over 50k out of my pocket without it. (Recovering fairly well, BTW) That's just one event, and paying it off at the rate of 2400 a year would have taken over 20 years (not even taking interest into account). I'm against forced coverage or universal coverage, and medical costs should be closely managed - but I don't think it's a bad idea to be insured.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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Originally Posted by Northman
I think we can all agree, that a free market healtcare, is the cheapest and most efficient one.

However, when looking at US healthcare compared to the rest of the industrialised world, the US pays almost 2x more then any other country on healthcare.. and recive worse treatment. ( very specialized healthcare, for a few rare diseases are better in the US ).

20-30.000 used to die in the US, each year because of lack of healtcare.

Follow the money.. who makes money on the system beeing partly privatized / socialised. The insurance and drug companies!

They want to keep everything as complicated as possible.

If you want the US to be the special snowflake in the world that keeps wanting to privatize the healthcare system, expect to pay a premium. The incentives for the insurance and drug companies is to gouge the american people.. and they keep paying politicians to do so!


"Snowflake" must be your new favorite word. How cute...

Now, as to the bits in bold, how about some proof?


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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