Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 45-70 bolt guns

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/sport_speciality_.html

I would like to see what these run, price wise. They direct you to old western scrounger, then nowhere...

look for a Siamese Mauser, much cheaper though it took me 20 years of looking to get mine.
shoots good though.
100 yards with 500g powder coated cast

The Siamese Mauser I've seen cost more than I'm willing to pay. Then there's the stock and the barrel and the work. However, that one look fine enough, how much???

that one was done by Navy/Gibbs. they did the Siamese Mausers along with the Enfields.
i think i got this one for 450.00
after waiting for 20 years to find it and the way it shoots, she ain't for sale.

Something like this? Needs bluing and checkering.

oooow! i like! i checkered for 40 years and i wouldn't touch that. that is sexy as is.

For some very unknown STUPID reason I walked away from a Siamese Mauser in a very nice grey syn stock at a gun show about 10 years ago, it already had the two position [Buehler?] safety, a 14" LOP with Dec pad, two bags of new brass, out the door for 5 bills.

A set of sights and barrel band sling swivel from NECG and I would have a mini Safari rifle that I could have hunted any NA game animal to 300 yards, damn, I hate being that dumb at times.

Nice rifle Craigster, you gonna finish it?

that's what happened to me 20 years ago and i swore i'd eat ashes before passing up the next one i saw. a member put one up here and i got it. it shoots everything i have put through it to the same point of aim. amazes me every time i shoot it.

Craigster that is some beautiful figure right there.

Shoulda had my ass kicked for leaving that one in Tulsa.

Not your Gibbs, but it is a 45/70 bolt action....


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606671641

There is a phone number at the bottom of the page at the link posted above Gibbs Rifle.

And, Western Scrounger also has a phone.

http://www.ows-ammo.com/store/index...p;zenid=79b25ea1c346522996f59b4155d5b744

So why don't they list their prices? Almost as bad as having a reserve on your rifle on an auction.

if you click on Navy and then click on their models they give prices . they no longer do the 45/70 bolt guns

The link just dumps you into the Gibbs 45/70 page, if you work your way down from Home, the 45-70 is listed under "Past Production". No need for bad feelings.

I looked again. I couldn't find it.

Bugger:

The bolt 45/70 Siamese conversion is an entirely different beast. I have 3 - one for me, one for my wife and one spare. Also, have a Win 70 converted to 450 Marlin and a Ruger M77 tang safety in 450 Marlin. The first two have been to to Africa on PG and my wife's goes every and so does my Win 70. Loads are listed for the Ruger #1's - 350 TSX at 2400. We also take CEB 325gr solids at the same velocity in case of pachyderm encounters. Recover very, very few TSX's and I've tested the CEB's and have never recovered a single one - even end to end though a mountain zebra.

Honestly, IF I was going to do a conversion it would be the same S/M but in 450 Marlin instead. Primary reason is you wouldn't have to open the bolt face making the rim stronger and less feeding trouble/work. My "spare" has a section of the bold face rim broken out and therefore won't eject properly. I've just recently found a micro welding shop and plan on getting the rim rebuilt.

Bugger, PM me your email address if you might be interested in it. I'll send you photos and if interested I'll get it fixed and make sure it properly ejects. Already converted it to the Win style 2-position safety and I think a Timney trigger, Leopold bases and rings.

Bugger, jump on this offer with both hands and feet. i have beat this horse to death but it took 20 years for me to find one and i looked from calif to north carolina at ever gun show i ever went to. you just don't see the SM's and very few Enfields come up. the holy grail is that M70.
i too have been thinking of building a 450 but my heart belongs to the 45/70.

Stalker:

I've got a boat load of rifles but, I plan on being buried with that M-70.

It popped up on GB maybe 6-7 years ago. It was a "new build" by the original gunsmith - Buchanan Precision. It was a custom order for a client on a Pre-64 action. They blueprinted and squared the action and deep, deep gloss blued the steal bits and fitted a half octigon-half round 21" stainless barrel with a stainless front swivel band. No fixed sights. He put it in a blonde laminate full bedded stock, no checkering and rear hidden cross bolt. In the photos it looked a little bit like the client may have been a pimp - LOL.

Client supplied the action and paid for most of the work up front. Smith took a little over a year to build it. When he tried to contact the client but phone, email, regular mail he go no responses - kept trying for three years to track down the client. Then kept it in his safe for five more years thinking that someday the client or family member would contact him someday - crickets. So he posted it on GB and basically priced it for what he still had in it. I saw it two days before the listing ended and slept on it over night. Next morning I logged on to buy it and it was gone! KICKED MY SELF FOR A WEEK!!!! Month later it pops up again and I didn't hesitate and hit BUY. Shows up at my FFL a week later. In the flesh and handling it in the shop it really turned out to be a great piece of workmanship.

Working up loads at the range, it is an absolute sub-MOA rifle if I do my part. Topped with a Leopold 1.5-5 VX III and 350gr Hornady flat nose at 2350 for practice and 350gr TSX at 2400 or the 325gr CEB FN solid it is boringly accurate. Over on AR the CEB was tested and went dead straight through 60+ inches of wet newspaper loaded at 2250 fps. "Field Testing" on several gemsbok and several zebra they pass through end to end. ME is over 4000 ft/lbs and DG legal. With those last two loads, I've gotten rid of my 458 Win Mag.

Only two deficiencies with the 45/70's is when you load (at least mine) you have to make 100% sure the rim of the next round you put down in the magazine is in front of the round under it. If not, they will jam trying to feed. Second, is the required opening of the bolt face for the 45/70 making the rim of the bolt face a bit thin.

As smooooothh as the Win in 450 is and the Ruger 77 too, I firmly believe that IF the 450 Marlin cartridge had been developed in time for all those SM actions coming back and being sold on the cheap the 450 Marlin would have a whole new life.

Side note - If Bugger turns up not interested, I'll make the same offer to someone else who might be. I'll either try to get the bolt face rim micro welded/repaired or sell it "as is" with photos of the gun and bolt face. It feeds and extracts just fine and is a MOA shooter too. Just without that lip/rim on the left side of the bolt face to "grip" the cartridge rim sometimes the case ejects just fine and sometimes not.

I don't post photos of any kind on the "Interweb" but will send via email to someone interested and not just a "tire kicker".

M3

M3Taco. Pm sent

Replied

I think the appeal of the siamese mauser was exactly to get a 45/70. If the 450 Marlin had been available, I dont see that much different than availabily of belted magnum brass that is easy peasy to make a 458 2" American. There is a limitless supply of guns that can handle the American. The Marlin is an annoying idea. You have triggers designed by lawyers, then there are cartridges designed by lawyers.

We will never know.

The Siamese Mauser was a cheap import. It was possible to make a rifle capable of killing anything on the continent even with cast bullets and do it very cheaply.

I believe the recoil on an Enfield in 45-70 would be horrible.

Bugger, the SM's were inexpensive but not cheap. then with their magazine configuration they were perfect for the rimmed 45/70

Jericho, i fired a friends Enfield and it rattled my teeth. thats one reason i went for the SM. of course my Mauser weighs right at 9.5 pounds.

M3Taco, i will be having dreams about your m70 tonight.
HOLY GRAIL.

Stalker:

It is one of the sweetest rifles I own. The smith told me he had about $2300 total into the work with most of it paid by the original client in advance. All he wanted for it was to get what he still had outstanding.....$750.

PM me an email address and I'll send photos.

Forebore - agree the only difference between the 458 American and the 450 Marlin is the band width and position on the case. The point I was trying to make is that a manufacture (Hornady) commercially produced the 450 Marlin and I don't think anyone ever commercially produced the 458 American. Maybe IF someone had, the 458 American would have become commercially viable. But then too, the manufacturer would have very likely run into the liability issues of a few idiots trying to interchange American and Win Mag. Just like you "CAN" shoot Win Mag in a Lott chambered rifle, most don't recommend a steady diet of it as it can mess up the chamber over time. So, you end up back for the reasons for the 450 Marlin - greater performace while hopefully reducing liability.

My other points for the 450 Marlin conversions are, not having to use an angled magazine to accomdate the 45-70 rim, not having to open the bolt face to accommodate the 45/70 rim and creating a possible weak spot (have one that proves this) and lastly, reducing the possibility of a jam by not having to worry about making sure the rounds are loaded down in the mag well again due to the 45-70 rim.

Of the conversions I have my favorites, in order are: 1 - Win 70 in 450 Marlin, 2 - Ruger 77 in 450 Marlin, then the SM's in 45-70. Others may different opinions and that is fine. I've got literally several thousand rounds combined between these five weapons and this is my hands on experience.

As mentioned - the SM imports for conversion were "inexpensive" and not "cheap" meaning "low quality". Historically, at the turn of the century when these were made in Japan under license by Mauser for the nation of Siam (now Thailand), Japan was know for turning out the highest quality steals available anywhere. That inherent strength and quality and an angled box magazine combined with there very inexpensive re-import surplus price is that made them so attractive for 45/70 conversions. Unfortunately now with time, when SM are for sale they seem to start around $300 and up. Goo bit of money when all you need is the action.

I built up a .45-70 on a Siamese action in the early '80s when I bought a barreled action for cheap. IIRC it came to me direct through the mail. I sent it to ER Shaw and they converted the action for .45-70, barreled it, bent the bolt handle, drilled & tapped and bead blasted blue. All for the princely sum of $164. I put it in a classic style Bishop stock and it turned out pretty sweet. Never tried pushing the limits, mostly 350 Hornadys at around 2000 which are pretty comfortable to shoot.
My LGS has an original Siamese Mauser in very nice condition but at $450 it's too expensive to use as a donor.

Mausers, Springfields, SMLE's, 1917 & 1914 Enfields were often available for very little money, in a category I'd call cheap. They were all bargains. I think the Springfields were less than $10. When we went to where dad bought all his reloading material we'd see wooden barrels filled with different WW2 and WW1 rifles.

I don't recall seeing Japanese rifles in this store, I do recall a lot of bitterness towards the Japanese. A lot of uncles and cousins and neighbors went to that Great War. There were a lot of people in the area where I grew up that were immigrants from Germany who avoided Nazis. So Germans were not so bad.

I remember Springfield barrels going for $.98 - new - in Cosmoline which you could order through magazines.

Dad bought three or four Springfields and a few Mausers. That's where my first rifle came from a 7.92x57 which was converted to 6mm using a Sharon barrel and a Herters stock.

I also remember seeing the Siamese Mausers for sale, but only in magazines. Dad had no need or desire for large rimmed cartridges though. My brother's and I were quite happy with the 06's and the reworked Mausers.

I believe the fear was firing a 458 American in something like a 357H&H or any smaller bore belted magnum. That would be interesting! Too bad, I liked the concept. And as far as I can tell the 350 rem mag had the same issue and no problem. Maybe an older time.

I could not resist a little jab against the 450.

I do see your point, had a factory loaded 450 been available, who knows.

The American could be inserted in a magnum whatever chamber and fired. That was the fear as I recall.

interesting stock! i assume thou art a lefty?

Well I'm right handed but I grew up shooting left handed, my father said I was left eye dominate when he taught me. Sometime in my life I became right eye dominate but continue shooting long guns and archery left handed. Considered switching but I have a decent collection of lefty rifles now.

Few yrs back I made up a Savage110 LH in 450marlin and used it a few yrs to kill deer with cast bullets. With MI restricted rifle trial I cut some case to 1.795 and loaded with a 500gr cast bullet set to full length. So I now have a 450marlinx1.8 a 500gr at 1800fps. It is one of the last guns I will ever give/sell!

I picked up this Siamese mauser in 45-70 this past year off Gunbroker. I love the feel of this rifle, havnt shot it at paper yet.The synthetic rifle with it is a 20" barreled 458 Win mag. More pics to follow.

Hope I a not hijacking this thread but would like to add to the conversation. Years ago my dad gave me a Krag-Jorgensen single shot bolt action and said it would work well for a 45-70. Only had to open the bolt face a few thousandths to make it work.
Well Crossfire put on a barrel and chambered it for me. We talked about making it a 45-100 but he convinced me to stay with the 45-70 since that is what I would shoot most.
Still need to make a stock for it but it test fired just fine.

If any of you know anything about those actions, I would appreciate knowing more.

I have heard of Siamese Mausers being converted to 30-40 Krag also. Could probably load it a little hotter in the SM action...

thats got me going. the bolt face woukd have more strength with the 30-40 and it could be hotroded. i have never been drawn to the 30-40 except for the krag it was in.
just what i need another project, anybody have a siamese for sale?

i had one of those stored in my safe for about ten years. returned it to owner, could have bought it for about 800bucks.

try this again. i joined the site for this very reason. I have a mauser in 45/70. been trying to figure its value and what it precisley is . im not mauser savy nor is it that anywhere ive taken it anybody knows mauser markings. I am willing to sell it but havnt because i new it was unusual caliber for a mauser action. if i can get a couple ppl telling me a fair price on it i would sell it. i can text you photos, dont know how to post them. thanx

I can understand not posting a photo. What I dont understand is your lack of details. Nothing???

The gun has markings. What are ALL THE MARKINGS. Then someone will tell you what it is and you can google and no doubt find some auctions on the internet. Its not that hard.

You might also describe the stock, barrel length, mechanical condition if you can determine, fit, finish or wear over all, iron sights, has it been drilled for a scope?, type of butt plate, grade of wood if restocked. ZERO, that is all you can provide.

Pricing guns is something of an art in itself. At best you get will get a range like 500 to 1000 depending too many factors to list.

Simple solution, get a 458 win mag and download it to 45-70 ballistics. 458's are reasonably common and reasonably affordable.

I went the 458 American route. I had a Remington 660 re-barreled and set up with peep sights. It makes for a great short range thumper. My eyes have been giving me fits trying to focus on the irons and I am thinking of going with a Scout scope and leaving the peep sights or removing the rear peep and adding a regular 2.5x Leupold scope.

I have this one in 30 US (30-40). Pic is kinda crap, but you get the idea...