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I've got a boat load of rifles but, I plan on being buried with that M-70.

It popped up on GB maybe 6-7 years ago. It was a "new build" by the original gunsmith - Buchanan Precision. It was a custom order for a client on a Pre-64 action. They blueprinted and squared the action and deep, deep gloss blued the steal bits and fitted a half octigon-half round 21" stainless barrel with a stainless front swivel band. No fixed sights. He put it in a blonde laminate full bedded stock, no checkering and rear hidden cross bolt. In the photos it looked a little bit like the client may have been a pimp - LOL.

Client supplied the action and paid for most of the work up front. Smith took a little over a year to build it. When he tried to contact the client but phone, email, regular mail he go no responses - kept trying for three years to track down the client. Then kept it in his safe for five more years thinking that someday the client or family member would contact him someday - crickets. So he posted it on GB and basically priced it for what he still had in it. I saw it two days before the listing ended and slept on it over night. Next morning I logged on to buy it and it was gone! KICKED MY SELF FOR A WEEK!!!! Month later it pops up again and I didn't hesitate and hit BUY. Shows up at my FFL a week later. In the flesh and handling it in the shop it really turned out to be a great piece of workmanship.

Working up loads at the range, it is an absolute sub-MOA rifle if I do my part. Topped with a Leopold 1.5-5 VX III and 350gr Hornady flat nose at 2350 for practice and 350gr TSX at 2400 or the 325gr CEB FN solid it is boringly accurate. Over on AR the CEB was tested and went dead straight through 60+ inches of wet newspaper loaded at 2250 fps. "Field Testing" on several gemsbok and several zebra they pass through end to end. ME is over 4000 ft/lbs and DG legal. With those last two loads, I've gotten rid of my 458 Win Mag.

Only two deficiencies with the 45/70's is when you load (at least mine) you have to make 100% sure the rim of the next round you put down in the magazine is in front of the round under it. If not, they will jam trying to feed. Second, is the required opening of the bolt face for the 45/70 making the rim of the bolt face a bit thin.

As smooooothh as the Win in 450 is and the Ruger 77 too, I firmly believe that IF the 450 Marlin cartridge had been developed in time for all those SM actions coming back and being sold on the cheap the 450 Marlin would have a whole new life.

Side note - If Bugger turns up not interested, I'll make the same offer to someone else who might be. I'll either try to get the bolt face rim micro welded/repaired or sell it "as is" with photos of the gun and bolt face. It feeds and extracts just fine and is a MOA shooter too. Just without that lip/rim on the left side of the bolt face to "grip" the cartridge rim sometimes the case ejects just fine and sometimes not.

I don't post photos of any kind on the "Interweb" but will send via email to someone interested and not just a "tire kicker".

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M3Taco. Pm sent

Last edited by Bugger; 12/18/16.

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I think the appeal of the siamese mauser was exactly to get a 45/70. If the 450 Marlin had been available, I dont see that much different than availabily of belted magnum brass that is easy peasy to make a 458 2" American. There is a limitless supply of guns that can handle the American. The Marlin is an annoying idea. You have triggers designed by lawyers, then there are cartridges designed by lawyers.

We will never know.

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The Siamese Mauser was a cheap import. It was possible to make a rifle capable of killing anything on the continent even with cast bullets and do it very cheaply.


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I believe the recoil on an Enfield in 45-70 would be horrible.

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Bugger, the SM's were inexpensive but not cheap. then with their magazine configuration they were perfect for the rimmed 45/70

Jericho, i fired a friends Enfield and it rattled my teeth. thats one reason i went for the SM. of course my Mauser weighs right at 9.5 pounds.


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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M3Taco, i will be having dreams about your m70 tonight.
HOLY GRAIL.


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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It is one of the sweetest rifles I own. The smith told me he had about $2300 total into the work with most of it paid by the original client in advance. All he wanted for it was to get what he still had outstanding.....$750. shocked

PM me an email address and I'll send photos.

Forebore - agree the only difference between the 458 American and the 450 Marlin is the band width and position on the case. The point I was trying to make is that a manufacture (Hornady) commercially produced the 450 Marlin and I don't think anyone ever commercially produced the 458 American. Maybe IF someone had, the 458 American would have become commercially viable. But then too, the manufacturer would have very likely run into the liability issues of a few idiots trying to interchange American and Win Mag. Just like you "CAN" shoot Win Mag in a Lott chambered rifle, most don't recommend a steady diet of it as it can mess up the chamber over time. So, you end up back for the reasons for the 450 Marlin - greater performace while hopefully reducing liability.

My other points for the 450 Marlin conversions are, not having to use an angled magazine to accomdate the 45-70 rim, not having to open the bolt face to accommodate the 45/70 rim and creating a possible weak spot (have one that proves this) and lastly, reducing the possibility of a jam by not having to worry about making sure the rounds are loaded down in the mag well again due to the 45-70 rim.

Of the conversions I have my favorites, in order are: 1 - Win 70 in 450 Marlin, 2 - Ruger 77 in 450 Marlin, then the SM's in 45-70. Others may different opinions and that is fine. I've got literally several thousand rounds combined between these five weapons and this is my hands on experience.

As mentioned - the SM imports for conversion were "inexpensive" and not "cheap" meaning "low quality". Historically, at the turn of the century when these were made in Japan under license by Mauser for the nation of Siam (now Thailand), Japan was know for turning out the highest quality steals available anywhere. That inherent strength and quality and an angled box magazine combined with there very inexpensive re-import surplus price is that made them so attractive for 45/70 conversions. Unfortunately now with time, when SM are for sale they seem to start around $300 and up. Goo bit of money when all you need is the action.

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I built up a .45-70 on a Siamese action in the early '80s when I bought a barreled action for cheap. IIRC it came to me direct through the mail. I sent it to ER Shaw and they converted the action for .45-70, barreled it, bent the bolt handle, drilled & tapped and bead blasted blue. All for the princely sum of $164. I put it in a classic style Bishop stock and it turned out pretty sweet. Never tried pushing the limits, mostly 350 Hornadys at around 2000 which are pretty comfortable to shoot.
My LGS has an original Siamese Mauser in very nice condition but at $450 it's too expensive to use as a donor.

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Mausers, Springfields, SMLE's, 1917 & 1914 Enfields were often available for very little money, in a category I'd call cheap. They were all bargains. I think the Springfields were less than $10. When we went to where dad bought all his reloading material we'd see wooden barrels filled with different WW2 and WW1 rifles.

I don't recall seeing Japanese rifles in this store, I do recall a lot of bitterness towards the Japanese. A lot of uncles and cousins and neighbors went to that Great War. There were a lot of people in the area where I grew up that were immigrants from Germany who avoided Nazis. So Germans were not so bad.

I remember Springfield barrels going for $.98 - new - in Cosmoline which you could order through magazines.

Dad bought three or four Springfields and a few Mausers. That's where my first rifle came from a 7.92x57 which was converted to 6mm using a Sharon barrel and a Herters stock.

I also remember seeing the Siamese Mausers for sale, but only in magazines. Dad had no need or desire for large rimmed cartridges though. My brother's and I were quite happy with the 06's and the reworked Mausers.

Last edited by Bugger; 12/19/16.

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Forebore - agree the only difference between the 458 American and the 450 Marlin is the band width and position on the case. The point I was trying to make is that a manufacture (Hornady) commercially produced the 450 Marlin and I don't think anyone ever commercially produced the 458 American. Maybe IF someone had, the 458 American would have become commercially viable. But then too, the manufacturer would have very likely run into the liability issues of a few idiots trying to interchange American and Win Mag. Just like you "CAN" shoot Win Mag in a Lott chambered rifle, most don't recommend a steady diet of it as it can mess up the chamber over time. So, you end up back for the reasons for the 450 Marlin - greater performance while hopefully reducing liability.


I believe the fear was firing a 458 American in something like a 357H&H or any smaller bore belted magnum. That would be interesting! Too bad, I liked the concept. And as far as I can tell the 350 rem mag had the same issue and no problem. Maybe an older time.

I could not resist a little jab against the 450.

I do see your point, had a factory loaded 450 been available, who knows.

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The American could be inserted in a magnum whatever chamber and fired. That was the fear as I recall.


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Originally Posted by tmitch
I built up a .45-70 on a Siamese action in the early '80s when I bought a barreled action for cheap. IIRC it came to me direct through the mail. I sent it to ER Shaw and they converted the action for .45-70, barreled it, bent the bolt handle, drilled & tapped and bead blasted blue. All for the princely sum of $164. I put it in a classic style Bishop stock and it turned out pretty sweet. Never tried pushing the limits, mostly 350 Hornadys at around 2000 which are pretty comfortable to shoot.
My LGS has an original Siamese Mauser in very nice condition but at $450 it's too expensive to use as a donor.

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interesting stock! i assume thou art a lefty?


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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Well I'm right handed but I grew up shooting left handed, my father said I was left eye dominate when he taught me. Sometime in my life I became right eye dominate but continue shooting long guns and archery left handed. Considered switching but I have a decent collection of lefty rifles now.


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Few yrs back I made up a Savage110 LH in 450marlin and used it a few yrs to kill deer with cast bullets. With MI restricted rifle trial I cut some case to 1.795 and loaded with a 500gr cast bullet set to full length. So I now have a 450marlinx1.8 a 500gr at 1800fps. It is one of the last guns I will ever give/sell!


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I picked up this Siamese mauser in 45-70 this past year off Gunbroker. I love the feel of this rifle, havnt shot it at paper yet.The synthetic rifle with it is a 20" barreled 458 Win mag. More pics to follow.

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Hope I a not hijacking this thread but would like to add to the conversation. Years ago my dad gave me a Krag-Jorgensen single shot bolt action and said it would work well for a 45-70. Only had to open the bolt face a few thousandths to make it work.
Well Crossfire put on a barrel and chambered it for me. We talked about making it a 45-100 but he convinced me to stay with the 45-70 since that is what I would shoot most.
Still need to make a stock for it but it test fired just fine.

If any of you know anything about those actions, I would appreciate knowing more.

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I have heard of Siamese Mausers being converted to 30-40 Krag also. Could probably load it a little hotter in the SM action...

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