Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Attn: SAS/Darrik

Darrik,

You've been good about trying to get manufacturers to produce runs of rifles us rifle guys might actually want. I know you often have trouble getting the manufacturers to see the light but I for one appreciate the effort.

I'll give you this disclaimer now that it's 3:00 AM and I'm still awake due to a painful psoriatic arthritis flare. Feels like gout in an entire leg. Anyways I get this idea and I'm wishing I had a big search light like on batman that I could shine into the night and summon help from someone who has a near supernatural ability to get a manufacturer to at least hear an idea. And then I think Darrik!

Anywho, I know there are many here who don't see the point of the 6.5 and now 6 creedmoor and they can just click away now. I don't want this to be 7 pages of explaining things that should be obvious to anyone that shoots. What I would like to know is...... How hard would it be to get Remington to make a limited run of model 700 mountain guide guns in 6.5 and 6 creedmoor. Both in 8 twists, or even a 7.7 on the 6, and in stainless steel. I'm talking mtn rifle in the first gen Ti stocks. I'm sure B&C still has the mold. I know 5-10 years ago they did some runs for Gander mtn and Cabelas or something like that.

It seems to me like they could at least sell a thousand or two. I don't understand the gun manufacturers and often feel like the view their customers as the enemy but why would it be so hard for them to put something like that together?

Bb

I'm thinking faux Ti's, stainless and in the Creedmoors. I'd be in fir one of each if the price was sub $800. Any higher than that and you might as well just call kimber and go montucky. They're already half way there.

Bb

Maybe Tikka would do it? Just have them move the bolt stop back another .2" and add that to the mag box too only because it seems like it would be too easy for them not too and no downside to it.

But I'd really like to see Rem do the faux Ti's. But after talking to a marketing manager from Rem at shotshow one year I'm convinced that there is not one ball they are not ecstatic to drop or one opportunity they will not go way out of there way to miss. I get the felling all the upper management are there because they lost their jobs fir the federal government for not keeping the status quo well enough and they are determined not to let a good idea ever put them at risk again.

Bb

Honestly, I don't know if they'd do it or not. I've approached them about a couple things in the past and they weren't really interested. With that being said, this will be a different year for the manufacturers. Sales won't be a given.

I don't think sub-800 will happen though. Their current mountain rifles are a little spendy and sales of that rifle aren't booming. That could make this a difficult task.

I'll send my rep an email today. I'll let you know what he says. It may be a few days -- he's probably on vacation until next week. They're gearing up for months of travel away from home. I'll see him at SHOT too.

I'll approach Kimber again too.

I was in talks with Tikka about a run of 8" twist 243's last year. It was serious enough that they told me about the T3x that was coming way before anything was leaked.

There may be some opportunities there as well. Before they could the 6 Creed, they'd need everything approved with their version of SAAMI over there. I'll ask if that's done first.

I like BB's thoughts. Remington seems to drop all of the guns I think are usable. I know most like long barrels, but hard to find a 22" sporter now. Even another run of the LVSF in the TI stock or the guide guns would be nice. I would like to see the 700 youth ADL in 223 also. A creed in the guide would work BB.

SAS! While talking to Kimber, you ca tell them to knock off the threaded barrels. IMO

I'm just guessing, but I bet 'working' with Remington ain't an easy task.

Grice Wholesale seems to get what they want from Remington, just like Lipsey's seems to get what they want from Ruger.

A 22" 700 stainless built in the 700 Ti Mountain Rifle format would be nice. I put together faux-Ti MRs in 260 and 308 and like them pretty well.

It's crazy how the manufacturer's won't use faster twists to keep up with the bullets, it would sell more rifles for those that care about fast twists and make no difference to those who could care less, for no additional cost...a win across the board.

Lefty's need loving too........................

For the next 4 years guns and ammo will be a buyers market for a change.

You will no doubt see some gun manufacturers going out of business....mainly the already flooded AR15 market will suffer

I think Tikka would do well if they'd put out a 6.5 SAUM

You have to remember that bean counters run Remington and are looking for the last dollar, not all Remington buyers post on 24hourcampfire and or give a chitt about the twist rate. That is the unfortunate truth.

For those who are oblivious or do not care about the twist rate the faster twists work just as well as the slower.

There simply is no down side to rifling for the longest bullets that a rifle might shoot.

Darrick: while you are at it...making miracles happen..talk Tikka into making an 8 twist .222 in a Superlight....

If shooting a tikka, there's no reason not to use a .270 or a 6.5-06.
Tikka needs to concentrate on a shorter action first and foremost. YMMV...

Is Tikka making a short action?

Tikka needs their own version of the "Vixen".
I'd write that check today...

I'll take one each in .223 and .17 fireball...

Edit; And a 6TCU...

I'd guess that pulling hens teeth would be easier that getting Remington off their azz.

That said, I'm gonna build couple 6mm Creeds of my own on 700 S/A actions. Certainly a heavy barrel version and either a mountain or sporter profile version.

I don't think so.......but Im not sure. I had a Tikka .223 on their regular long action and didn't find it as objectionable as many say....

Never had one, so can't say.

I got a bit excited! I would be pretty damn tempted by a SA Tikka SL in 223 though!

I would buy two!

I'd bet big money. Big Green tends to think they know more about what gun customers want than gun customers. At least they did finally twist the 260 correctly...only after the likes of Tikka got it right the first time.

I'm betting Kimber will put out a 6creed and twist it right like they have in the 6.5creed. I wouldn't be suprised if the 6.5creed was their top selling Montana this year. SAS what Montana did you move the most of this year?

308's...

The 6.5 Creedmoor may have topped the list, but inventory was slow to materialize.

The Hunter was a different story. 6.5 was King.

Emails sent to Tikka and Kimber...

Remington rep to follow...

FYI...

I asked Kimber for an exclusive run of 100 6 Creedmoor's and 100 22-250's. Both twisted 1 in 8".

I asked Tikka for an exclusive run of 500 rifles. 6.5 Creedmoor's, 6 Creedmoor's and 22-250's -- all twisted appropriately.

We'll see what happens? I'll meet with them all soon at SHOT.

Interesting on the props twisted 22-250s...keep us apprised!

Darrik, please put on the waiting list for a 22-250!

Or 6x45!

Here's hoping you asked for at least a few of the Tikka 6.5 CM in a left hand configuration.

Tikka may have gotten it right but Sako did not. I have a Sako 75 .260 with a 9 twist.

Agree with Jim on this. I'd write a check on a 6.5 CM CTR in left hand stainless.

22-250 in an 8 twist....yeah I'm in too

I'd be in for both the 250 and 6creed.

Bring back the 7WSM. 8" twist please.

David

I'm in for a faux Remington TI in 6 Creedmoor, 22" barrel twisted 1-8" or 1-7.7".
That would be pretty sweet.
Thanks, Tom

Just getting ready to send off a Montana 308 for a re-barrel to 22-250???

Wow. Very cool!

When the factories introduce a 22 Creed next year (seems likely) will the 22-250 be able to be reamed out to fit?

IOW, it would seem like they won't want to offer a special run of 22-250 at all if they figure to offer a 22 Creed sometime soon.

Also, if you can get the 6 Creed to be twisted in 7" twist, it would be advantageous with the new bullets that are being introduced, such as by Sierra.

The 8 twist is going to run out of twist pretty quickly with long 110-115 grainers.

How about getting a Sako to make some Finnlights in 6.5 Creedmoor with threaded barrel?

Someone with bettr knowledge or google-fu than me please explain the difference twixt the 22-250 and a .22 creedmoor?

Less taper, slightly longer case and most importantly the Creed has a 30 degree shoulder vs. the .22 Varminter's 28 degree shoulder.


It's that 2 degree sharper shoulder that makes all the difference in the world, especially if they are double venturied with suspenders...

AKA no belt. Laffin'

I am somewhat ignorant on this, so help me out. Why wouldn't a manufacturer do that? What expense is involved in it?

Tooling and separate inventory.

What are the Superlite 22-250's twisted? Not 8" like the 223's?

1 in 14

They obviously have 8 twist .224 SL barrels on the rack. You'd think they would run a 22/250 reamer into one.

SAS, any update on the tikka in a 6.5 creedmoor?

None. I'll talk with them next week.

Godspeed, Darrik! These are great times for we loonies.

Tikka T3x Hunter Stainless Fluted in 6.5 Creedmoor!!!

Please!

Yep

As long as they make something in 6.5 Creed in a LH action I'll be happy.

I know I'll take some flack for this, but here goes . . .

This thread kinda reminds me of being at the SHOT show a few years ago. After fighting the crowd, of which half or more of the folks there had no business being there (they were on passes from their buddy the "kitchen table FFL holder"), my boss and I get to the booth to talk over the guns available to Sako dealers thru the Sako Select program - hoping to write an order or get the materials to do so. In front of us are a group of men (not FFL holders, dealers, or distributors) talking to the Beretta rep (who happened to be our rep) and a factory rep from Sako (whom we'd both met previously). From the bits and pieces of the conversations I overheard, it was like this thread. "Sure would be nice if you made XYZ model in ABC caliber, with 123 barrel length" and so on and so on. The look on the face of the two reps was that of "can someone get these guys outta here?" Finally, my boss had had his fill and leaned into the conversation and said something to the effect of "that's a great idea, how many would you commit to order?" One gentleman turned and said he was good for ONE, as did another. At that point my boss looked at them all and basically said "Get the F*** outta here and let folks that are bonafide, brick and mortar dealers do business." There was more, but I'll move on. Jaws dropped, and the group took it upon themselves to leave, post haste. At which point the reps reached out shook my bosses hand, each saying "Thank you!"

The point is, Darrik has taken the time and made an effort to reach out, AND commit to a reasonable number of guns from a couple of manufacturer's and potentially make it worth their while. Whether or not they follow through remains to be seen. One or two, of this and that, won't cut it, nor will 10 or 20. And while the crowd here at the Campfire has feel for what the twist/barrel length/action orientation should be for manufacture X's rifle, or manufacture Y's rifle, and so on, there's just not enough COMMITMENT from any one retailer/distributor or group of retailers/distributors to consider so many variations.

Another thing to consider, when thinking of Sako and/or Tikka, is Beretta is the importer. The engineers at Sako/Tikka can design and have produced just about anything. Convincing the powers that be at the top of Beretta that said design should be produced and imported to the USofA, is an entirely different ball-game. This not supposition, it's a virtual plagerization (sp) of the aforementioned Sako/Tikka factory rep.

Again, I commend Darrik. He has take the bull by the horns, compiled copious amounts of information, and narrowed it down to a couple of reasonable options, presented his side, and COMMITTED to be the first out of the gate with said new offerings.

Update...

I honestly feel like some of these projects will materialize this year. Conversations this year were constructive and opinions are changing.

Beretta (Sako, Tikka) has a new(ish) rifle manager. He gets it -- he knows times are changing and is willing to do something about it. He'd already approached the Finn's about twist rates. I'll know more about exclusives soon, but I honestly expect one to come full circle. The 8" 22-250 makes the most sense short term. The have the barrels, so it's as simple as running the reamer to make it happen. On another note, we spent some time discussing the mag box length on the 223. Something interesting could happen there as well...

Ruger was receptive. We may actually get the 1 in 8" 22-250 in the American this year! I asked for blued receivers with stainless barrels after hearing the all stainless would be more difficult to materialize. We discussed compact and lefty models too.

I also had some good talks with Howa. We discussed the floor plate for the mini's. We took one apart and measured some stuff for the mag box. There's room and I emphasized the need for 2.50" of internal space. They were leaving for a meeting specifically about the floorplate and mag box as soon as our meeting adjourned. They also know the floorplate needs to be a drop in for existing rifles and it needs to be available for purchase to guys already owning one. A Mini for mini's is also coming as an exclusive to us (Whittaker Guns) for a period before it comes a running line option. The youth stocked version will be in 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39 and 223.

I had a really good meeting with Kimber too. Lots of new faces and they're all receptive to change. We discussed many options, but the 1 in 8" 243 got the most play. Initially my thought was 6 Creed, but they were really receptive to doing fast twist 243. Obviously, I didn't object! Their new rifle manager is willing to listen and I truly expect some good things from her!

Nothing with Remington. Sorry burleyboy.

No promises, but progress was made. More updates as soon as I hear more. This is a tough time of year. Lots of shows to finish before everybody gets settled back into work.

Dang campfire lobbyist.....

Ha!

It takes more than just me. I compile opinions from here and pass them along. You guys will make or break these things. If they do them and they're received well in the market, running line changes happen across the industry. If nobody puts their money where their mouth is, all progress stops.

I just purchased a .223 Mini LW from you, and the transaction went as smooth as silk. I like the rifle, and it is consistently putting up 3 shot groups under an inch with 50gr.,55gr. and 65 gr. bullets. But that damn magazine catch lever is an absolute abortion-it is way too easy to inadvertently drop the magazine when handling the rifle. So, put me on the list of prospective floor plate purchasers. CP.

Damn Straight!

That would be a free for all to grab those, if they twisted it right.

Bingo !!!

I would be in for either one of these options, preferably the Kimber