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Gave this a try. Curious if I should have learned anything, or not, and where to go next? Would appreciate constructive advice or GFYs. Second target kinda looks like a bust to me - or is it? Lacking a great spotter, I used colored Sharpies on the bullets and made enough trips to to the target to be absolutely confident on recording the hits.

IMR4451, 129ABLR, CCI 200, Hornady brass multi-X that was collet neck sized, 6.5 Creedmoor, Kimber Moontuna with brake... COL 2.77" and a bunch of jump. It is not a precision rifle IMO nor am I a precision shooter. Fired prone, bipod, rear bag, 12X SWFA. No chrono used.

First batch shot a couple days ago. Note: the two 42.0 sighters, lower right, were not at same aiming point as the 41.8 nearby and had different primers and fouler brass.
41.0, 41.4, 41.8, 42.2, 42.6, 43.0, 43.4, 43.8
Then wind came up and it was a bust - I tried some 42.0-43.0 at 670M.
[Linked Image]


Second day. (Did I choose the right ones from the first day?)
42.0 to 44.0 by .2gr increments and fired at 580M again, fairly calm but felt better sticking at 580M. Anything useful here?
[Linked Image]


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Let me ask, what exactly were you looking for in this? Three consecutive loads with minimal verticle dispersion? Typically this is done at 200 yards rather than the ranges you are using, as it allows the results to be easier to discern. Also how did you shoot the ladder? Round robin? Let the barrel cool inbetween or not? Give me some more info and maybe we can help ya.


Something about the indian and the arrow...
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Originally Posted by Ridgegoat
Let me ask, what exactly were you looking for in this? Three consecutive loads with minimal verticle dispersion?
Absolutely.


Typically this is done at 200 yards rather than the ranges you are using, as it allows the results to be easier to discern.
I would absolutely not do this at 200.

Also how did you shoot the ladder? Round robin? Let the barrel cool inbetween or not? Give me some more info and maybe we can help ya.

Just shot them low charge to high. Day 1 30F, couple rounds then check.Confirmed my markings were doing the trick. Day 2 20F, shoot 3, cool a bit, shoot 3, check, shoot 5.




Coming back and looking. I will explore between 42.8 and 43.6. Any further comments? RC? GSSP?
[Linked Image]


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42.8-43.6 is exactly where you should explore. How much jump to the lands? Are you at magazine length or can you get closer?

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I'm not seeing it.
Ladder tests like that are the reason I switched to OCW testing.


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Cueing RingMan....

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Thanks 805. I did not notice it right off earlier when I first posted, but that looks like the spot.

It's a comfortable fit in the magazine. I'll do a bit more checking before putting the number out because it's such a large number. LOL

Wondering if it's time for groups or try another run and try to narrow it down a bit more? Input is appreciated.


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Originally Posted by joshf303
Cueing RingMan....


laugh


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Id load groups of 42.7,43.0,43.3,43.6 and see what happens.
Have you tried any other bullets? 130vld/140vld?

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805, Thanks again for the input. Just worked with the Nosler 140CCs using my regular methods at 100 yards and got a load that did .9" average for 11 3-shot trifectas. I am not too much into barrel cooling time. Oh, shot a couple charges with the 143 ELD-X too, but, they went double what the 129 ABLR did so have gone this way. Just trying it out.


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Originally Posted by joshf303
Cueing RingMan....


What do you want me to see here?


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Just saying, but the margin of error at 200 versus however far you were shooting is much lesser, aiming point is definite and easy to duplicate, you can see from shot to shot with a high power scope, reduces range time, wind and other environmental factors are minimized, and is plenty far enough to see elevation changes, ect ect but i dont know anything.


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Originally Posted by Ridgegoat
Just saying, but the margin of error at 200 versus however far you were shooting is much lesser, aiming point is definite and easy to duplicate, you can see from shot to shot with a high power scope, reduces range time, wind and other environmental factors are minimized, and is plenty far enough to see elevation changes, ect ect but i dont know anything.


That's quite obvious....

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Originally Posted by Ridgegoat
Let me ask, what exactly were you looking for in this? Three consecutive loads with minimal verticle dispersion? Typically this is done at 200 yards rather than the ranges you are using, as it allows the results to be easier to discern. Also how did you shoot the ladder? Round robin? Let the barrel cool inbetween or not? Give me some more info and maybe we can help ya.


I've heard 400 yards is better than 200 yards. What brought you to use 200 yards? With the scopes I use I can see bullet hole at 400 yards.


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For phucqk's sake 200 yards is not the answer...

For the record. The Nosler 129 AccuBond Long Range reaches the lands at 2.901" COL in my Moontuna. Mag box is standard Kimber 84M, about 2.825".

Jump with adequate magbox clearance is substantial.


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I've seen loads with the long range accubonds jumped .0120 and shooting very well.
I'd load and shoot your groups and see what happens.
Also maybe load a few of your 140CC load and see what it does at longer range!

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I shoot a 6.5 Creed with 140 and 130 bergers with H4350.

My buddy got a 6.5 creed and couldn't find any 4350 so he bought a can of 4451. I was thinking what the hell is this?

We loaded up a few and the charges mirrored 4350 for speed and accuracy.

So, around 42.5 with a 140 and around 43.5 with a 130 are my normal loads.

You should be good with a 129 right around 43.5 +/- .2 grains.

I don't like ladders but if you shoot them they should be as far as you can shoot, just like you did here.

I also think your gaps are too big at .4 grains. Maybe try again at .2 intervals in something this small. I usually do .3 or .4 when I'm in the 60-80 grain range.

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Also, try a seating depth test first.

Charge a few cases with a light powder charge like 39 grains. Then seat bullets at jump .010, .040, .070 and .100 or start at mag length and shorten them by .030, .060, .090, .120

Shoot these at 100 yards to find the best seating depth.

Then load your charges at 42.8, 43, 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, 43.8
Fire those either at long range for a ladder or load three of each and fire them slowly at 100 yards, keeping the barrel cool. After this you will have a load.

Thin barrels typically have small nodes and need to stay cool in my experience, but they can be very accurate.

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I'm not seeing good nodes Like you should.

Did you use new or annealed brass... when brass gets hard I see spreads like that.

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They were annealed but fired a couple times since. Dammed little runout on the cases and loaded rounds, collet neck sized and seated with a Hornady seater. Next set will have been fired once since annealing. After some off-thread discussions, I am going to shoot it over again, from about 42.6 and up with extra care holding the vertical and see. Likely at the 580M(634Y) as its a good spot. And then proceed accordingly. No hurry, just waiting for things to align with calm winds.

Interesting and I like that I'm not jumping off into one direction or another based upon a couple 100Y groups.

Appreciate the inputs. wink


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Did not read everything, but could we have something for scale here?


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Sure, why not? In the pic with the red oval, the 43.0 and 43.6 are 4.9" apart. It has been pointed out to me the progression does not look quite right, like I flubbed them. So - I will do it again.


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That being, I don't see anything there that seems like a good starting place. Usually there will be a small range were a few rounds stack up.

Really get down on those targets, take time, maybe let the barrel cool, and do ones absolute best at squeezing the trigger and sustaining a follow through.

Is the barrel floated?

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IMO, if you don't have a sub MOA gun to begin with, you may be looking at random variations more than solid data.

My 6.5-284 Krieger/M-70 is half MOA (or less) and I did my testing at 400, not 200 yds. Even at that distance, it was sometimes hard to tell where the bullets were landing, because they were hitting so close. Required a few 4 wheeler trips to sort it out. And, I have a great spotting scope.

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Moderators! My Kimber is engineered to theoretical MOA performance standards and my bedding and freefloat are par excellence. LOL

I promise to reshoot, with greater care, and maybe a little closer too.


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Reshoot FURTHER. .3 grain increments loaded to max magazine length. Be sure to "load" charges that you think will be over-pressure. Shoot lighter charges first. Stop when you find pressure. Look for at least 3 consecutive shots that impact nearly the same place or at least the same horizontal plane. Shoot groups with the loads in the node AT THE SAME RANGE AS THE LADDER. Pick the best and shoot it at 100 yards. Tune with seating depth adjustments if necessary......


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The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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If I go further I'll need a whole sheet of plywood! laugh

Thanks RC


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634 yards isn't far enough to shoot a ladder?


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It's far enough. I can't read


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The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Rick,

Can you post the link to the method of loading incremental loads in a hundred round box, seating bullets with a hand press at the range. I really like that set up, works great. You don't end up a bunch of rounds to pull bullets.

DF


Edited to add, I had it Bookmarked. Here's the link. Some good ideas, some from Rick himself although published by others.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...detailed-article-video-42881/index3.html


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That's how I do it also. Load them all long and seat with a hand press while shooting, works great.

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One key element you are missing is the MV.

You will find that accuracy nodes also match up normally with MV nodes. That is the confirming factor.

you can shoot a ladder and at same time record the MV of each bullet. You will find that the bullets will make large jumps in MV (example say 25 fps) and then tend to tighten to maybe 8 fps when you hit a node and then open up back to 25 again as you go away from the node. You can normally find at least 2 nodes and that is also why MV is needed as one will be lower than the other and most hunters want the faster node.

(hint use colored magic markers on the tips of the bullets as it leaves the same colored ring on the target that is easy to discern each impact)

You need to shoot at a time of minimal wind such as early morning or late evening and 400 meters plus is great. You do not want to have bullets stacking on top of each other and unable to discern the jumps in elevation.

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