Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Light and Fast or Heavy and Slow for an All-Arounder?

The older i get the more i just want to settle on one rifle and one load. This year I want to set up the 300 RSAUM (M77 Mark II, 22 inch barrel) with one load for anything I might possibly be able to hunt and eat in the USA (which would be antelope, hogs, whitetail, mulies, elk, moose, bison). I don't see myself hunting sheep or bears. I haven't done much handloading with this cartridge, but have all the equipment to do so. Factory loads on hand are Nosler 150 BT and Partitions, and Remington 180 CoreLokt Ultras... I was pretty much settled on going with the 200 accubond for everything (looking at the specs, that heavy bullet holds on to velocity like no tomorrow and shoots plenty flat out to 400 yards which is the furthest i would ever attempt to shoot on anything)... but I am wondering if I should go for a Barnes TTSX (130 or 150) and push it as fast as possible??... a 135 at 3400 fps is one flat shooter... playing around with Norma's ballistic program a 200 yard zero would only be down about 16 inches at 400... I have no experience with Barnes. Preferred shot would be take out both shoulders, alternative through the slats broadside. Curious to know what you recommend for one bullet to do it all on the above game for fast and humane kills. i am not worried about eating up to the hole... preferring a fast kill over meat loss. (Last deer we took with a Partition with a 7x57 was stunning the damage it did to the far shoulder), but he was down quick.

That 200 gr load seems like a solid choice. I will be interested to hear what you decide.

If you don't want light and fast, or heavy and slow, how about midweight and sedate?

I'm in your shoes not wanting to deal with a lot of recoil. I "can" deal with it, I just find myself wanting to less and less as I approach 60. While I don't think your 300 SAUM is the answer (unless loaded down), I'd suggest modestly loaded 165/168's would accomplish anything that needs accomplishing in NA.

Me, I just run a 308 with that bullet weight. It works.

Beat me to it.........

Thanks for the replies. I turned 60 in October... My hard kickers are the 300 RSAUM and a 444. I use a shoulder pad for range sessions, but hear you on the recoil. I gave my 7x57 to my son as a gift since he has been getting the deer with it, and put all the scratches on the walnut stock (grin). Midweight and sedate might be the answer with the 300SAUM; but with what bullet. 165/168s you are thinking BTs?

I'm with Brad. 308 with 165 accubond.

I can't bring myself to sell a rifle, too sentimental as each one has a story, and don't have a 308... but when you look at them side by side, the 300 RSAUM is a fat 308.

I'm in......

Hmmm... 56 grains of Varget pushes a 165/168 to 2900+

And thus you have a 308...

I you have to have one. this

if onthen this

Get some well constructed 150's at top speed recoil will be light, accurate, flat shooting ... What is not to like.. I feel bad for those so old a bit of recoil bothers them.. Recoil is mostly in our heads.. I learned that more than 50 years a go.. You aren't shooting 599 rounds at p. dogs or gophers..

I kinda like heavy and fast! To loosely quote Elmer Keith whe asked his thoughts on the perfect rifle round, he said, "somthing that'll throw a campstove at 3000 fps"! I like 300 grainers at somewhere around 2900 to 3000 fps. Makes for a good all around cartridge out to around 800 yrds. or so. memtb

Keep the 300 Saum and get the best pad you can for it. 166/168 whatever. NBT would work, keep it cheap and buy at SPS.

Dogger, I think all the guys agree, nearly any decent 165/168 will work. The Accubond or Partition is usually my first stop these days. Can't always get them shooting, but I'm perfectly happy with the 165/68 Ballistic Tip too. And, my dirty little secret, the 165 Speer Hotcor. The "Poor Man's Partition." Great bullet, and often really accurate. I used a Hornady 165 BTSP this year on a bull elk, but of all those mentioned it's my least favorite. Still, a good bullet. Broke the front leg completely in two on a 6pt bull I shot this year with my 308. I used the Hotcor on a bigger bull last year.

I just had a great hunting season:

Bear @ 325 yds
Antelope at 245 yds
Mule deer at 140 yds
Elk at 338 yds

All with my .30-06, using handloaded 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I'm 60 years old. Recoil was quite tolerable. I shot a bunch during practice this summer. Pretty happy with my results and the way the rifle shoots.

Regards, Guy

Personally, for hunting out to 400 yards with a chambering that starts bullets at 3100+fps, I like a mono. I'd be pretty happy with a 130 or 150 TTSX at 3100-3400 fps from the 300 SAUM. Alternatively, I'd also be pretty content with a .308 or 7-08 and 140-165gr C&C bullets...

Dogger

I load for two 300 SAUM rifles. I have shot deer and elk with them. I can tell you 150 TTSX will work very well. I also have loads for 165 tsx at 3100 fps, 168 ETs at 3000 fps, 180 ABs and partitions at 2900 and 190 LRAB at 2800 and 2900 fps. They all work very well. I have never found the need for 200s in the saums but am sure they would work very well.

The wife has also used 180 gr. core-lokts at 2750 fps to kill a bunch of deer in Mn.

No matter the cartridge, I choose moderate to heavy bullet's, depending on cartridge. In my old 308 all I shot were 165 gr bullet's. Liked the accuracy. 180 came in a close second. Then in 30-06 I prefer the 180gr and if for whatever insane reason I had a 300 mag, 200gr would be where I looked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5dve7vAY9I "BRUSH GUN ARGUEMENT"

Yep,mid range and sedate, 30-06 and 180 gr anything that shoots accurately.

I have a M7 in 300saum as one of my elk rifles. I can't disagree on the other choices but I just load 180 Partitions in it and call it good.

Dogger I shoot this load awesome. Considering the cost of an elk or bison hunt I feel changing to a different bullet would not be a big deal.

175 Barnes LRX at 2,900 would be my choice.

Guy, you gotta start hunting closer! Last 5 animals I shot COMBINED added up to the one closest critter you whacked!





OK, j/k. I am envious of your success. Very dry season for me, and all 5 of those deer were last year. Big goose egg so far in late 16 early 17.

If trying to avoid recoil, I'd run the Barnes TTSX 130.

If truly all-around, I'd run the Nosler ETip 150. This bullet has a high BC and can be pushed fast and will penetrate anything.

I land here for an all arounder for the game the OP listed. In fact I could be happy with Brad's 308 idea. I like a 180 bullet for elk though and think the 06 pushes it to a useful velocity with tolerable recoil in a light rifle.

In truth, I like the 300 SAUM. I had one for a while and managed to kill a couple elk with it. To me is it a short action 30-06. I struggled to get mine past 2900 with a 180 using a 24" barrel. It really liked 2850 - 2875. You can get 2850 in the 'venerable' 06 (sorry couldn't resist) with a 180. If it were me, I'd load it with a 165 or 180 Partition, Aframe, North fork, some kind of premium cup/core and go forth.

Apparently like several others here, I'm looking for simple, efficient, and tolerable recoil. I've settled on the ol' 06 for my elk size critter getter. Ive also grown attached to my 270 for a flat shooter.

I'm actually not much of a fan of long-range hunting, but do tend to hunt some open country. Does it help that a few years ago I shot a black bear in the brush at about 10 or 15 feet? That got my attention! Also, did call a bear in this year to about 20 yards. I decided he wasn't big enough, and he decided I didn't look like the easy meal he'd anticipated. We agreed to a truce.

Guy

thanks for the informative replies... i have a bunch of 180 BTs on hand... will start there... my only concern is how they will hold up on a big animal in timber up close...

I have a Colt Light Rifle sent off to Melvin Forbes for his various "upgrades." The rifle has been very accurate with 180gr Partitions. My load is modest, not to different from the max 06 loadings. This bullet holds up under any circumstance.
My intention is for this to become a "go to" rifle for all occasions. The major reason for sending to Mr. Forbes is improve carrying characteristics.

Brad,

Have you had the opportunity to compare a 140 accubond in the 260 to a 165 accubond out of a 308 for on game performance including elk?

I am very curious what the real world end result would be considering the 6.5 140 accubond has .287 SD and .509 BC as compared to a .308 165 accubond of .248 SD and .475 BC.

As a rule of thumb I have always found higher S.D. at equal velocities to penetrate better when comparing bullets of equal construction than just relying on weight of the projectile alone. For instance.....20 some years ago I hunted with a 300 win mag useing 165 partitions. When I changed from the 300 win mag to the 270 and a 130 partition I found penetration when shooting elk to be comparable enouph I couldn't see any measurable difference.

The 270 like the 6.5 has good B.C. and S.D. numbers when compared to 30 caliber bullets however the 6.5 seems to be a step above even the 270.

I've not tried the 6.5 cool-aid on anything other than deer as of yet but I fully intend to see for myself if it might just be one of the best rounds ever invented concerning lite recoil with an ability to kill even elk sized critters.

I hear in Sweden moose sized critters have a dreaded fear of 6.5 bullets

Though I've not tried it yet....personal experience gives me some confidence that a 140 6.5 accubond at 2800 fps would probably be a better penetrator than a .308 165 accubond at 2900 fps when considering an S.D. .248 vs .287

Please do not consider any of this post as trying to make an argument of any sort and it is none other than making a limited educated guess by myself who no doubt has far less experience than a good many who post here at the campfire.

I however have read your thread in the reloading section pertaining to the 6.5 creedmoor and 140 grain bullets and as one of the posters mentioned was also wondering if you might have been considering useing something like that for elk. Myself, I have considered it and next year fully intend to find out. I think results concerning an entire country, "sweden" is a good indicator of what I might expect to see.






Trystan

Stop with the hotcor stuff. I need more and would like to not have them out of stock everywhere.

I'm in the 180-200gr Accubond camp

First, the right cartridge for serious hunter is not the cartridge for a serial rifle builder. Which are you?

A serious hunter wants a rifle chambered for a cartridge that is easily available in out-of-the-way places. Your choice doesn't fit that requirement.

In addition, most of the guys here run a 30-06 at brass busting pressure. I don't understand that. I would rather get a 300 Winchester run it at modest pressures. Factory 300 will out run any 30-06 loads.

Recoil: I had a 338 that was beating me up. So, I switched to moderate load of medium burn rate powder. That eliminated the bite it previously had and only cost about 75 fps.

A 300 loaded with 165's and H4350 to 3050 is a kitty cat yet out performs any 30-06 or 300 SAUM load. This is easy in a 23" bbl.

Consider German built, rear engined cars. Which works best at 80 mph?
I will take a 911 over any VW Bug.

Oh, if you want a lw low recoil killer then get a 270 Win and go hunting.

Yup! Well said!

I agree with Bob and RinB.

Trystan, I've never used a 6.5 on elk, so have no way to know. I've killed a good number of elk with the 308, including at least four with the 165 Accubond, and not found it wanting.

My guess is the 6.5/140 would have a penetration edge, but I doubt it would make too much real-world difference. I think a guy would have to kill about 100 elk in a variety of conditions with each to draw any firm conclusion.

I will say, the more apples/apples comparison with the 6.5/140/2,650 fps is the 308/180/2,650 fps. I suspect those two are VERY close.

I think you have found the good all purpose round. A heavy 30 cal bullet at good speed kills good and doesn't seem to blow up and bruise up the meat you want to eat like the small bullets do. You shoot once and go get the animal where the bullet hit him.

Well, none of my rifles are easy to find ammo for anywhere: (300 SAUM, 280 Rem, 6mm Rem, 444, 7x57) except my 30-30...
good arguments made for the 308...
good rationale for a moderately loaded 300 WM...
and of course the 270!

lol...
i do believe i can get good performance out of one powder (RL19) and 100s in the 6mm, 160s in the 280, and 200s in the 300SAUM, with partitions and Nosler reload data...

I like a 140 to 160 around 3000 fps depending on the rifle I'm hunting with.

I have several choices between .22cal and .375

I tend to like my 7-08 more and more each year

If I was going one rifle/load, that would be it. And was for a number of years in several rifles.

Then I got looney..... and was, over time, given/bought several rifles, different calibers......and had to swap out / "fix" a couple bad barrels on acquisitions.....

I currently have two .30-06s - a RU77 tang with 17 inch bbl. (after removal of muzzle bulge - not mine! - @1.25 MOA) and a '98 with 27" heavy bbl. that I have here in the Arctic as a 500 yard caribou killer, for snow machine/ light hike use.

If I was to choose between them as is, I'd take the Ruger for handy - I've killed to nearly 400 yards with it. But given 'druthers, I'd fit a lighter 22" bbl on the '98 for all-round use (currently used only via snow machine travel). In '06. Ain't no better action than a '98, or better all-round caliber.

Using factory ammo with the current '98 configuration, and a solid rest, I can depend on a 3 shot group (if I do my part - 150 grain Hornady Superperformance) hovering right around an inch at 300 yards. Bugger's too heavy to carry around far, but it makes good meat!

.30-06 with 165 to 200 grain loads, depending...

Or you could up it to a .30 Mag, same loads.

YMMV, And yes, I have a .338 WM, and range down to a .243.

I have a 300saum and I use 168TTSX. I would not hesitate to use it for just about anything in NA. They aren't cooking along super fast but the load is accurate. I use varget.

Why the 168ttsx as opposed to the 150 you could push faster?

.284 Winchester, Speer 145 btsp.

As long as they are accurate, what else matters ....

So now 3 shots prove something?

I use 165 gr TSX in 300 H&H.

150 TTSX, Varget, find accurate load at 3100-3200

I've never been a magnum man. No, that's not about condoms. I'd have kept the 7x57 and given my son the others. I'm 60 and think all my hunting here out will be with a 6.5 lb 257 Roberts Husqvarna and a 7 lb 30-06 Husqvarna 1640. The two lightest, handiest, rifles I own. I gave up magnums, just don't need them.
Of course, to each his own as HE pleases. This is America.
One loads would be:
a) fast and medium (100gr PT) for 257
b)semi-fast and medium 165gr PT for 30-06.
That'll drop all but the big bears.

Selecting on rifle for everything is a compromise. Selecting a load for it is also a compromise. You specify a .300 RSAUM and list "antelope, hogs, whitetail, mulies, elk, moose, bison". That is quite a range of sizes and weights.

Erring on the side of caution suggests selecting a load more suitable for the largest animals rather than the smallest.

Kimber sure has some nice 300 WSMs and i never noticed any problem with the recoil and I hunt whitetails a lot with a pre 64 fwt 243.