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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,309
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,309 |
In Europe they used to (maybe still do) think shooting a pheasant up the arse (going away) was disgusting. Driven birds flying over you and toward you.... head shots can be done. You know what's disgusting? A bleeder that doesn't shave her armpits and men that have a casual indifference to taking a fugking bath. And those lazy fugks couldn't walk two days in our bird fields regardless. And even if they could they'd be speaking German. Or Chinamen, if it weren't for us. So fugk them. Happy New Year, Clark Don't forget the queer clothes they wear.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 582
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 582 |
I used to shoot Pheasants in Pointing Dog Field trials. If a trainer said to go ahead and shoot, you better be sure of a downed bird. I did that as well, in the late 60's and the 70's. I agree that 71/2's worked well on pen raised birds over dogs. Heck, I've killed wild roosters with #9's a few times, but I do not suggest that at all, on either pen raised or wild birds. I don't have a bird dog any more, so I need the wild rooster dead in the air, and more often than not, #4 lead will do it. But, just in case the wind picks up and the shots become longer, I will have either #2 lead with me or #4 Hevi-Shot, depending on which gun and gauge I am using. Frequently, I'll have #4 lead in the right barrel and the 'stronger' stuff in the left.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,153
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,153 |
Early in the season when the birds aren't so wild and so heavily feathered, I use "Heavy Trap Loads" (premium hard shot) w/7 1/2s for the first barrel of a 12 guage double. They fold up roosters just fine at sensible ranges. The second barrel I load with 6s.
In the late season I go to 5s in a 12, 3" 4s in a double 20.
The one objection I have to using smaller shot like 7 1/2s is that they get in my teeth! Larger shot are easier to detect both in cleaning the birds and eating them.
When I've had "complete penetration" in pheasants, it was always with 4s or 5s and resulted in a "two-piece" bird...shot too close, too much caffeine! Looked like I was using a bazooka.
Was Mike Armstrong. Got logged off; couldn't log back on. RE-registered my old call sign, Mesa.
FNG. Again.
Mike Armstrong
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 84
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 84 |
I guess it might be important to clarify that my comments were assuming we are talking WILD birds. I know this raises a entirely new potential debate. But in my opinion pen-raised planted birds are not same creature. Maybe its like saying you can stop an NFL linebacker on adrenaline with a .22.... well, sure. Or a flabby video game player on the couch.... easier to stop.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
I've never seen 7.5 give good results past 25 yards or so.
Size 6 will get it done to 35 with no problem, especially in a 20 where it keeps the density up.
Size 5 gets it done period.
Size 4 will kill birds at 75 yards from behind, as I've seen it done numerous times. But there is not as much density, and you probably need to be choked up full. There seem to be just as many runners with size 4 as with anything else.
My uncle used to swear by size 2. He claimed that one pellet is all it took since it always penetrated the bird completely, and that seemed to incapacitate them instantly. I haven't tried it myself.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,582 |
If you want to try 7-1/2's on pheasants, good hard shot is the way to go. It doesn't have to be plated (though that helps a little), but does have to be high-antimony shot.
I've killed a bunch of wild roosters with high-antimony #7 shot from a 28-gauge, and only 7/8 of an ounce drops them real well out to 40 yards. There are around 300 7's in an ounce of shot, so they're somewhere between 7-1/2's (@350 per ounce) and 6's (@225) in size. They're also the same size as the British #6, which is most popular over there for pheasant shooting--which is usually done on driven birds, so not as many are flying directly away, like flushed pheasants.
In fact I prefer 7's to American 6's for pheasants in the 28, because they penetrate pretty well but pattern density is higher. But don't see any real reason for them in a larger gauge, where a heavier shot charge can be used.
John, I have been in the "hit them hard with 4s or 5s" since...well forever I guess. Where we hunt in Kansas this year the pheasant numbers were the best in eight years. Here is the rub, so many pheasants they were intermixed with the quail. Now a quail flys through a cloud of 4s like a movie star escaping 7.7s in a WW2 rally movie. So switching loads was a larger component of this season. Usually you walk the big stubble with pheasant loads, switch to trap loads for the plum thickets and edges for Bobbies. In usual times that is a pretty good plan. I started out predicting what the dog was smelling pretty well. But then those quail got far from cover and the ace in the hole "Quail Walk" had cockbirds and a few 8 point bucks this year. In short, enough cockbirds flew into my Handicap trap loads and if anything... brought more birds to hand without the big dog-chasing-a-rooster for ten minutes that is all too common with American coarse shot, high brass loads. Maybe you (I) shade the pheasants toward the front more, knowing the limits of 71/2s . But overall for me the 4s and 5s were not as decisive as the trap loads.
Watch 'Yer Topknot!
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 709
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 709 |
Mule Deer is close on, and I don't want to open a can of worms, but the size (Gauge) of your gun has nothing to do with penetrating power. A 20 Gauge #6 shot with a Max Load of powder, has the same penetrating power of a 12 Ga. #6 Max load. The only difference is the number of BB's. It takes more powder to throw the extra amount of BB's in the 12 Ga as opposed to the 20 Ga. with the same velocity. Now, it comes down to the size of the shot itself. Physics itself will tell you that the smaller the shot, the less each pellet weighs, therefore as the distance that you are shooting at gets further, the penetrating power of a smaller size shot gets less. Not rocket science, but you would be surprised at how many think that by going to a larger gauge, they can reach out further. Some even believe that the choke has something to do with it. Although most know that all the choke does is open or constrict the end of the barrel as the shot passes through, some think that they are getting extra killing power with a tighter choke. All you are getting is a denser or more open pattern.
Better to be over the hill than under it.
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