Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Finn Aagaard On The 7mm-08...

For your edification:

Good article, how old is it?

Article is from mid-late 1980's.

Finn died in 2000. I believe the last eight or ten years of his life he became pretty much a die-hard 308 user.

Good cartridges, hard to beat for deer size game

I could tell it was old. I first noticed the 7mm-08 in the 99 but still have never saw one in the flesh.

Thanks for putting it up.

I can remember reading that article in print when I was in high school. I must be getting old!

Brad,
Thanks for posting! Now I 'need' a 7mm rifle.

Glad they dont make many of those stocks anymore.

Finn enjoyed many rounds, did nice articles on the Swede and 338-06 among many and even one on a NULA in 7BR. I've used all 4, they all work well

Bullet choice + shot placement, always the right recipe.

Yeah, I've had many of the rounds Finn experiemneted with including the 338-06, 7x57, 257 Rob, etc., etc. Finn did enjoy many rounds, but most were to wring out for publication purposes. For his own use, post Africa, he was pretty much a 30-06, then later, 308 guy.

That stock was designed as an offhand stock for Metallic Silhouette shooting. It is a very comfortable and stable stock for offhand. At the time it was one of the few aftermarket stocks available for Silhouette, at most matches about half of the competitors would be using them. They were made for most rimfire and centerfire actions and came 90% finished so they could be finished to fit your holding style. I saw very few laminates though since they were heavy, most folks used silver maple or walnut so they could get more weight in the barrel.

I was at a rimfire match a couple of years ago and there were a couple on the line, I took a few shots with a fellow competitors and was pleasantly reminded why they were so popular.

I see you are from Blaine county, I'll bet that there are still a few of those stocks in closets around the county. Lewistown held the State Smallbore Rimfire silhouette matches for many years and in the 80's it was the hot-bed of rimfire silhouette, folks traveled from Wy, ID, ND, and Canada just for their monthly matches, for the state championships they came from most of the central and pacific NW.

drover

I always liked his articles, even when it wasn't something I was really interested in.
He's another who didn't need to post his hunting & shooting Curricula Vitae.

Blaine County Montana, not Idaho.

Thanks anyway for the information, I thought that stock might have just been the "style" back then.

Now I know what it was designed for! I appreciate it!

Finn's books are worth their weight in gold.

I especially got a kick out of Finn saying this line at the end of the article:

"...the most effective way to enhance the game killing power of a .243 rifle might be to just rebarrel it to 7mm-08 !"

He did like 7mm bullets.

And liked 30 cal even more

No, I was speaking of Montana, I just had my counties mixed up, Lewistown, MT is in Fergus county not Blaine.

drover

Do you know why he switched allegiance to the 308 from the -06?

He found for his hunting it kicked less and killed the same.

Thanks Brad, always liked Finn's writing. In a book put out by Wolfe Publishing of his collective works, I get the same feeling about how in his later years did a lot with the 308 and even the scout rifle concept

Thanks. I seem to be headed in the same direction myself, for the same reasons, but don't really want to admit it.

No doubt Brad - Finn like other great writers and riflemen are practical- I've run the gamut and working my way to the 308 and 30-06

Ha! I thought you meant Lewiston.

I need a drink.

His widow Berit used a rifle 7mm08 if my memory is correct.

Mike, I'm pretty sure the rifle in the article became Berit's.

I need to find a "compendium" of Aagaard's writings. Preferably in print. I had forgotten how much I like his writing. Your post brings back some good memories, Brad.

340boy,

Luckily, most of Finn's writings have been collected in books. The NRA published two, HUNTING RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES (the volume with the 7mm-08 article, which I believe only appeared in paperback), and AAGAARD'S AFRICA. It's hard to find HUNTING RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES in decent condition (my own copy is held together with tape and glue) but the content is what matters.

Three other have been published since his death, including AAGAARD'S AFRICAN ADVENTURES, which includes all of the NRA book, along with several introductory essays by various other people, including his two sons, and various gun/hunting writers including Craig Boddington and Phil Shoemaker. It also includes what's essentially a second book of African stories by Finn's widow, Berit Aagaard Pace, also an excellent and well-published writer, which adds considerably to Finn's perspective. Personally, I would buy it rather than the first African book.

There have been two other collections published since, FINN AAGAARD, SELECTED WORKS, and GUNS AND HUNTING, with a foreword by another gun/hunting writer with a Norwegian name.

All can be purchased from various websites, such as Amazon.

John,
Thank you!
I will look for those titles, for sure. I've some good winter reading to look forward to now.

I just ordered a clean copy of AAGAARD'S AFRICA so now I'm one book short of a complete Aagaard library.

Finding an affordable copy of HUNTING RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES might take a while..........

ABE books might be a good place to check, also.

While digging around for a "deal" on the last Aagaard book, I found this visit from Berit five years ago. I wish this place was still one that she would visit again.

Mrs. Aagaard

Abe, Alibris and Amazon are all have consistently CRAZY prices on that last book.

I have always enjoyed FA's writing, and of course, especially enjoy a piece he did in reference to my favorite hunting cartridge.

Tim, this article came from the book Hunting Rifles And Cartridges. Mine, like John's, is heavily dog eared!

Thanks, Brad!
More books to buy. Always more. Good thing I have a Kindle for most of the recent stuff. I'd run out of room in a hurry otherwise.

I just ordered a Kindle version.

I'd be interested in his writing on the 308 for plains game. PH I hunted with used a 308 for his personal rifle. The two other PHs used 7x57 and 30-06. They each used heavy for cartridge bullets.

One reason many African PH's use heavy-for-caliber bullets is not as many "premium" bullets are available over there. Though that has been changing, ALL bullets are much higher-priced over there.

One of the PH's I've hunted with owns a big sporting goods store in Kimberley, South Africa. When I was there for a month in 2007, I visited the store several times. The shelves were dominated by cup-and-cores priced about like Nosler Partitions here, and the relatively few Nosler Partitions were at least twice the price they are here. Of course, most of the bullets sold were to local meat-hunters who often shoot a lot of animals, and heavy cup-and-cores work for them.

Today more premiums are becoming available and more PH's have discovered their virtues, partly through their clients using not just Partitions but TSX's and other bullets. But prices are still high, and the heavy-bullet mentality still exists.

Makes sense. I know they really like two holes as it helps with tracking herd animals and a heavier bullet has more momentum. Launching slower helps the C&Cs stay together as well. The 308 and 7x57 guys shoot A-Frames (and generally think they are the best available bullet) while the 30-06 guy shoots 220 Hornady round noses. While I was there a guy borrowed his 30-06 one day. Took a shot at a Zebra where the bullet hit a tree first, went through the tree and entered the Zebra going sideways. Zebra died quickly.

Brad : Terrific article , Thanks for posting it for us to share.

Finns' comments from 4 decades ago are truly prescient in so many ways.

At the time that the 7mm-08 came along, I thought that it was just fine for Eastern Whitetail hunting, but that the .280 Remington did more for the western Hunter who also went after Muleys and Elk.

Of course the 7 Mag was the king of that hill.

It's very interesting to note the disparity in availability of ammo, new rifles etc. reflecting the 7-08s current popularity, compared to the .280 Rem and the 280 AI.
For myself I've never had one of the SA sevens, but do use a .308W for a bad-weather backup.

I think I need one, or a 6.5 CM for my boys to ascend to, as their hunting tastes evolve.

Thanks Again for another good read.

The 7mm08 is very popular here. Every third hunter will have one.
(Every second hunter will have a .308, and the other guy will either have a .270 or a .243. Every now and then someone will wander past with a .260 or a .300WM just because they are gun nuts. You can spot the .303 guys by their grizzled beards and the old boats they work out of, driving around the lakes shooting at deer under a spotlight, deer shooting really being an excuse for drinking beer in a boat.)

LOL, great post... thanks!

Glad you liked the article. I agree, it's just as relevant today as nearly 35 years ago. I don't think Finn was as much prescient as he was grounded firmly in hard-won reality. But I suppose that translates into a kind of prescience!

My favorite writer.

Brad,

You are correct about that. Finn developed a load for that rifle for Berit to use on the small whitetails that lived in that part of Texas. The load was quite mild, using a 139 gr Hornady spire point at about 2500 fps. Very well mannered load, and quite accurate to boot. Pretty much perfect for its purpose.

WyoM70

Thanks guys for the list of Finn's books.

I have several articles he wrote in mags and maybe referenced in other books. I'll be looking to get as many of his books that I can't find/afford.

Thnx
Jerry

You're not wrong Carlsen.

I'm in complete agreement as it is exactly the type of load I use in my 7x57 for home deer because it works.



Entrance:



Exit:

7mm 08 is a great round. I use it to kill pigs quite a bit. Knocks em down. We catch lots of them in pens, so we get to try a lot of different cartridges on them. A 223 with a 62 grain Barnes will kill them as fast as a 7 mag.

Killing pigs in a pen is an art.

My hunting bud has it worked out pretty well. He uses a .17 HMR with FMJ ammo. He walks up close enough for a shot, not close enough to have them running around, usually 15 yds. or so. He pictures a line between their eyes, comes up about an inch from mid line. He lines up the target with an opening in the wire and fires. The .17 kills them instantly, their eyes are bugged out on stems, weird looking. He then lines up the next one.

No blood, no sqeeling, clean kills, no fuss. Hog killing about as slick as I've seen.

DF

WyoM70,

Berit worked the bolt handle on that Ruger 7-08 very quickly, despite being left-handed. About a decade ago I was involved in a "hunting shooting school" started by gunsmith Charlie Sisk, held in South Texas every winter. One of the stations was a charging Cape buffalo target, and you had to be really fast on a bolt-handle to get three shots into the paper buffalo while it charged. 90% of people were happy to get two. During the second year Berit and her second husband, Bill, came as guests, and she brought along her 7-08. She could get two "killing" shots into the buffalo pretty easily, despite the wrong-sided bolt handle.

Charlie, however, decided she needed a left-handed rifle, so built her one, as I recall another 7-08. It was the first time she'd even shot a left-handed bolt in her life, and she loved it!

That does speak a lot about her skill with a rifle.

Do you remember if she worked the bolt over the top with her left hand or used her right hand while holding the pistol grip in her left? The latter is how I used to shoot .22 bolt rifles as a kid and the one centerfire I had later as a young man before finding true LH rifles.

Reaching over the top still requires dismounting or offsetting the rifle somewhat and the scope really gets in the way. Bolt handles set close in to the stock don't make the job any easier for sure. FWIW, unscoped military rifles with straight bolt handles can be worked relatively quickly with the left hand.

Off subject of the 7mm-08 but I was curious how the wife of a professional hunter learned to do it.

She went "over the top" with her left hand.

Jim, as a lefty growing up that's how I learned to shoot right handed bolts too.

The sniper character in Band of Brothers used the left hand, over-reach technique which seems levels of difficulty greater and with much more movement.

Yeah, if I were thirty years younger I'd have a 7-08...or maybe just another 270.

I remember reading this article sometime around 87-88, shortly there after I bought a savage in 7mm08.

George,

Most lefties I've known who reached over to run the bolt often tilted the rifle with their right hand, which made it easier.

As I recall, Craig Boddington reaches over to run right-hand bolts, but some of his are classic old rifles that don't have scopes.

Im a lefty that has always shot righthand bolts, I tilt the gun, cycle the bolt. Though lately Ive been thinking of switching to left handed bolts, the thought of switching out 30 or so bolts for leftys has so far stopped me.

I have the book from which the article is posted from, and recently re-red it.

If I remember correctly: Finn's 308 was a WW2 large ring action that was re-barreled by the Israely to a 308. Or, maybe it was a surplus WW2 action that had a surplus Israely Nato caliber Mauser barrel shortened a bit, and screwed on it.

It was given a Beuhler safety, and either a forged or welded bolt handle. He put it into some type of basic synthetic stock, slobered some type of paint on it, and rubbed it with sifted creek sand to add grip. It was D&T'd and equipped with something like Weaver rings and bases, and a four power scope. Finn was a very sensible and practical hunter. To the end: an ethical hunter. A long shot was 200 plus yards with a good rest.

As for the cartridge choice of 308. Remember he hunted and guided in Texas after he left Africa. Maybe if he had stretched the mag box of the same action to 06 length, and had gotten one of the few military 06 barrels floating around he would have just stuck with that. He did reload, and it would have been his tendency not to "push things." The bolt would have worked just the same in either caliber.

When you are primarily hunting deer (and small deer at that) who needs a bullet over 180 grains?

You will note that the 7-08 pictured has had the forestock shortened, and a barrel band swivel added. The entire rifled was lightened. The tang safety was in the correct place for either "handed" people. A sweet rifle for the wife and kids.

No kidding. At $275 as the cheapest I've seen, I don't know why the NRA doesn't reprint it. Considering the cost of printing these days, especially print on demand, at $25 or $30 per copy they would make money hand over fist. There ought to be someone at NRA headquarters to ask.

RM

My latest 7-08 arrived yesterday...

If this thread had been going last month I might have caved on the new or like new 7-08 Montucky at Cabelas for $1K.

Well, I'm sure we can find you another one, 222. Always glad to help, you can thank me later...

Thanks..........

I've got a 700Ti that fits both my needs and my knuckle-draggin' frame really well. The Montucky is a little small somewhere, but I've never tried hard enough to pin down why. The long action models might be totally different.

My Ti is an '06, but I kick myself for not buying a 7-08 when they were sitting on shelves everywhere.

I've always thought the 7-08, 30-06 combo is a great one. The SD/BC/FPS of each is nearly identical for similar trajectories.

If I ever shoot out the '06 (not at this rate), I'll rebarrel to 7x57, and bridge the gap with a century+ of mojo and class instantly added. Win-win.

Lol

+1!! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!

Got my vote. Oh wait! I already did it.
Paul B.

I have a 7x57, a 280 and a 30-06. I use the 77x57 at least 70% of the time. captdavid

I sent my .308 out to get re-barreled to 7X57 and it was new! I just can't warm up to .30 cals and keep coming back to the little 7's.

Brad,

For a number of years I've thought the .17 Hornet, .22 Hornet, .204 Ruger, .223 Rem., .22-250, .243 Win., .257 Roberts, .257 Wby. Mag, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55, .270 Win., 7mm-08 Rem., 7x57 Mauser, .280 Rem. AI, 7mm Rem. Mag, .30-30 WCF,.308 Win., .30-06, .300 WSM, .300 Win. Mag, .300 Wby. Mag, .303 British, 8x57, .338 Win., .358 Win., 9.3x62, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby and .45-70 combo is a great one.

Of course, once in a while throwing in a .250 Savage, .33 WCF or 9.3x74R helps break up the boredom.

Loonie

Mule Deer, do you still have those "I'm a Rifle Loonie" hats for sale?

A guy's got to have at least one BS-29!

340boy,

Yes, we have Rifle Loony hats, and in fact last year "expanded" them to include extra-large sizes, due to demand from apparently very brainy rifle loonies. They're on the website, www.riflesandrecipes.com.

Oh happy day!

(I'm one of the large domed loonies, though my family tells me that it is due to too much bone, not brains.)

Teeder,

Oh, yes!

But I must mention a slight technical correction to your post. The B-29 was my fictional wildcat, and the "article" stirred up more reader comment than any previous HANDLOADER article, to the point where I was commanded NEVER to write a similar article.

The 9.3 B-S, on the other hand, is a very real wildcat, the .350 Remington Magnum necked up to .366. I came up with the idea, and Charlie Sisk built the rifles. Actually, he still builds 9.3 Barsness-Sisk rifles for anybody who wants one. Last time I asked he'd built a few dozen, aside from his and the one he built for me.

But some people wouldn't believe the 9.3 was a real cartridge for a while, evidently because of the B-29.

Ha, I must have combined them! I really got a kick out of the B-29 article!

Some people actually believed it--one of the reasons I was commanded to never submit anything like that again. A few wrote to the mythical addresses in the article, asking about .29 caliber barrels and bullets, and were puzzled when their letters came back stamped "Address Unknown." And about three YEARS after the article appeared, one of the guys at Redding phoned me, barely able to speak because he was laughing so hard: Somebody had just called them, asking if they had any B-29 dies in stock....

MD : Never Understood why you went with the .350 Rem Mag case vice a 9.3 WSM for that one. Do you recollect ?

Probably a typo, but don't you mean 77% of the time ?

338Rules,

There were two reasons:

1) I wasn't trying to produce the MOST velocity possible from a short-action 9.3. Instead I was just trying to duplicate the ballistics of the 9.3x62, since they'd been working well for a century, without excessive recoil. The .350 case has just about the same amount of powder room as the 9.3x62.

2) Charlie Sisk had found the .350 case fed even slicker than WSM cases in actions supposedly designed for short, fat, beltless magnums. I thought that might be handy in a rifle that might be used on dangerous game.

Very Neat and I like the idea however,

















Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

Jerry

338Rules,

Oh, there's also another advantage of the .350 Remington case, but I didn't really discover it until afterward: Necking up the cases is REALLY easy. In fact if the necks are reasonably round on new .350 brass, you can just seat a 250-grain Nosler AccuBond, and their boattail will open up the neck.

That's cheating.

MD Thanks for the Insights. Always wondered, having seen various 35 WSM based cats, but didn't think of duplicating the 9.3x62 capacity in a SA.