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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Tuning a CRF extractor should not be considered anything out of the ordinary for any make rifle.
If that is all that is "wrong" with it then get busy and tweak it. To not do so would be like saying one of the screws was slightly loose and you are going to send the rifle back to have them tighten it for you.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85 |
Here is a video of what the rifle is doing. It is worse with hornady brass than it was with the Nosler brass. I disagree that tweaking the gun is "normal" practice on a brand new gun. That's like saying a new car with a engine miss needs tweaked by the new owner to make it run correctly. Anyone interested in buying this one let me know. It has been fired 34 times. https://youtu.be/hSMpXpExH7A
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,153
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
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Tuning a CRF extractor should not be considered anything out of the ordinary for any make rifle.
Nor should it be necessary for any make rifle.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587 |
Gotta say for as many threads that are on here about trouble with these guns I can't believe they have such a following. I can't believe it either. I thought I would give Kimber another try after they Issued me off a number of years ago so I ordered up a new Montana 7-08. It arrived, I opened it up, took it out and handled it a bit. Worked the action etc and thought what a POS. Packed it back up and sent it back for a refund. Kind of disappointing for all the hype on here.
Rob
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
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Is the follower running fully to the top, or is it cocking to some degree?
If it is cocking, so that it allows the round to drop, then possible the spring is walking, and not staying put at its bottom leg. A dab of epoxy, with realease agent on the spring, will give it a positive locator to stop walking.
That, maybe combined with tuning the extractor. I ended up replacing my follower (LA), with a different production unit, think it was a Win, but may have been a Rem.
Last edited by GaryVA; 02/11/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
Gotta say for as many threads that are on here about trouble with these guns I can't believe they have such a following. I can't believe it either. I thought I would give Kimber another try after they Issued me off a number of years ago so I ordered up a new Montana 7-08. It arrived, I opened it up, took it out and handled it a bit. Worked the action etc and thought what a POS. Packed it back up and sent it back for a refund. Kind of disappointing for all the hype on here. Its why we call it " Kimber Roulette"... After dealing with selling them at the LGS for a few years, I wouldn't have one if it was given to me...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85 |
On the Hunter the case rides along the feed lips of the magazine. If you load 3 rounds into the mag it will feed and extract the first two nearly every time but the last round will be dropped. If you pull the bolt out and slide a case into the bolt face the extractor doesn't even touch the brass. Any other of my guns the extractor will grip the case and hold it. That being said when you chamber the round then extract it the case drops out of the extractor and is left sitting there. If another round is in the mag then the round being extracted rides on top of that round and doesn't fall down thus remaining in the extractors grip. Bad thing is that when I got it back from Kimber the note said the extractor was replaced. If it was replaced they never tested the function afterwards. And if it was replaced what else could be wrong? I'm calling Kimber tomorrow and going to try to get them to watch the video. Then it will go back to Kimber again.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,483
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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Gotta say for as many threads that are on here about trouble with these guns I can't believe they have such a following. I can't believe it either. I thought I would give Kimber another try after they Issued me off a number of years ago so I ordered up a new Montana 7-08. It arrived, I opened it up, took it out and handled it a bit. Worked the action etc and thought what a POS. Packed it back up and sent it back for a refund. Kind of disappointing for all the hype on here. Rob, Where'd you buy it from? Unfortunately I've seen local retailers get a return because of a manufacturing flaw, and put it right back on the shelf...
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,587
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
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Gotta say for as many threads that are on here about trouble with these guns I can't believe they have such a following. I can't believe it either. I thought I would give Kimber another try after they Issued me off a number of years ago so I ordered up a new Montana 7-08. It arrived, I opened it up, took it out and handled it a bit. Worked the action etc and thought what a POS. Packed it back up and sent it back for a refund. Kind of disappointing for all the hype on here. Rob, Where'd you buy it from? Unfortunately I've seen local retailers get a return because of a manufacturing flaw, and put it right back on the shelf... Pm sent
Rob
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760 |
Curious if the follower spring is walking at the bottom, where it rests. If so, it will not push the follower fully upward, when no more rounds remain in mag box. If that is the case, the follower will be cocked, and will not be supporting the case upward, so that it stays under control of the extractor, as the follower guides the path rearward, into the ejector.
If that is your problem, then, when rounds are in the mag box, likely, that straightens out the position of the follower, to some degree, so the round coming out the chamber is supported, and held under the extractor.
A simple fix to keep the spring from walking at the bottom, where it rests, is to make a positive locating notch, for the spring, with a dab of epoxy. Coat the spring with wax, so it does not glue into place, and use just enough epoxy, to create an imprint of the spring, to hold it into place. You must be willing, and capable, of disassembling the rifle to do so. Some, will take the additional step of replacing the follower, and dress up the mag box fit and bedding, if needed.
Just my opinion, but this is why I consider a Kimber to be a project in a box.
Last edited by GaryVA; 02/12/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85 |
Called Kimber today and now they are saying that the gun isn't designed to extract cases that are fed by hand. Only those fed from the mag are suppose to eject. What a joke of a company. Plan to send it back for the second and final try to get it fixed. If not then I guess I can sell it as a fully functioning gun according to Kimber.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,006
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,006 |
[quote=Nateknight]On the Hunter the case rides along the feed lips of the magazine. If you load 3 rounds into the mag it will feed and extract the first two nearly every time but the last round will be dropped. My Kimber Hunter 6.5 Creedmoor does the opposite. Put 3 rounds in the mag and you have to push up on the bottom of the mag and work the bolt quite hard to feed the top round. The next 2 rounds feed fine and all eject fine. I have Kimbers in 257 Roberts, 260,7-08 and 25-06 and this is my first one with a problem. Guess I've been lucky, but this Hunter is a bit frustrating. It also doesn't want to do 3 shot groups as two will be very close, but the third shot is always an inch or more away. This has been with 2 scopes, 3 handloads, one factory load and 2 different magazines. Maybe I should try 140 gr bullets instead of 120s next. 
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,330
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,330 |
Boy I most be really. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket.
I've owned 7 Kimber of New York centerfires. More than that of there 22's. The biggest problem was a firing pin spring, also a 257R took a ton of rds to find a good load. All 7 shot sub 1" groups al of the time.
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,499 |
All the savage rifles I own or owned except for 1 savage 99(had 3 that did) shot darn near moa and a few quite a bit better. I handload and none have taken much work to get accurate loads figured out. Heck I have an axis 223 that shoots sub moa with American eagle fmjs. I am by no means saying they are comparable in quality but if shooting tiny groups consistently is important out of the box why play this "roulette" that is so often brought up. If I pay upwards of 1k for a rifle, it better come to me fully operational and at least above average accurate without a ton of work tweaking and developing loads.
My 2 cents.
MM
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 73
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 73 |
I've owned two. One was a 300 WSM in mountain ascent. Receiver was machined so badly the back of the lugs were gouged from just chambering a round. Sent it to Kimber, they sent it back saying it was functioning fine. Took it to a smith here local. They tagged it unsafe and called kimber on my behalf. I paid an hour labor to have the barrel taken off so the smith could provide photos to Kimber showing the inside of the receiver surfaces were mis-machined. Kimber reviewed and had me send the gun in. They sent me another gun conceding the quality defect. The second gun had the follower spring floating in the bottom of the mag well. I fixed it and this gun is a shooter. Just took 6 months and some patience and some money.
So I guess I'm one of the few unlucky ones. But in the end, after some work, I do love the gun. I won't part with this gun but I also won't be likely to buy another. Customer service and Quality departments need an overhaul IMO.
I should add, Kimber never bothered to pay for the smith's time and never picked up the new firearm transfer fee. Kinda tells you where they stand.
Last edited by tm7554; 02/14/17.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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I have reviewed your video. The cure is very simple. Contrary to popular belief, controlled round feed actions require quite a bit of tuning in order to function properly. It is much simpler to make a push feed action work perfectly.
When a cartridge is fully chambered, the extractor should be tight enough to hold the cartridge head against the opposite side of the U-shaped recess on the bolt face. The extractor must have positive tension to push the brass against the opposite side of the bolt's face.
On your rifle that is not happening. You can test it by removing your bolt and slipping a cartridge's head up under the extractor.
Proper fit has nothing to do with the case head diameter. Rather it depends on the diameter of the case's extractor groove. Manufacturers dimensions vary a lot. I mean greatly. They don't pay much attention to this dimension because is does not alter the function of push feed actions.
The most persnickety guy I know about feeding, DArcy Echols, adjusts the extractor's tension to a specific brand of brass. That is one reason why his rifles function perfectly. So you may solve your problem by switching to cases with a larger diameter extractor groove. I wouldn't be too quick to blame Kimber. Alternatively, you could get a 223 extractor and fit it to a specific brand of brass.
Last edited by RinB; 02/14/17.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
I have reviewed your video. The cure is very simple. Contrary to popular belief, controlled round feed actions require quite a bit of tuning in order to function properly. It is much simpler to make a push feed action work perfectly.
When a cartridge is fully chambered, the extractor should be tight enough to hold the cartridge head against the opposite side of the U-shaped recess on the bolt face. The extractor must have positive tension to push the brass against the opposite side of the bolt's face.
On your rifle that is not happening. You can test it by removing your bolt and slipping a cartridge's head up under the extractor.
Proper fit has nothing to do with the case head diameter. Rather it depends on the diameter of the case's extractor groove. Manufacturers dimensions vary a lot. I mean greatly. They don't pay much attention to this dimension because is does not alter the function of push feed actions.
The most persnickety guy I know about feeding, DArcy Echols, adjusts the extractor's tension to a specific brand of brass. That is one reason why his rifles function perfectly. So you may solve your problem by switching to cases with a larger diameter extractor groove. I wouldn't be too quick to blame Kimber. Alternatively, you could get a 223 extractor and fit it to a specific brand of brass. Bingo! This is why it was said above that one MUST know how to adjust the extractor to make it work. It is not a rifle problem so much as a brass problem, and sending it back repeatedly to Kimber is not going to "fix" it. But most such advice from people who know things is actually just ignored around here when a rifle costs more than $400.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,020
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,020 |
I watched the video too. That rifle still has an extractor issue. It shouldn't matter what kind of brass he's using, the rifle should function 100% regardless. And obviously it is not. He lost at Kimber roulette... Plain and simple.. Oh, by the way RinB, Darcy isn't the only one out there with perfectly functioning rifles. I'd also have to point out that a "perfectly functioning" rifle will function with any fu cking brand of brass you put in it. Hint... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 85 |
I agree with last post. This is a mass produced rifle built to function with mass produced brass. Kimber uses Hornady test ammo so after it wasn't working correct with the Nosler brass I bought Hornady brass. Still doesn't work. Something is wrong with the extractor for sure. If it's routine to adjust a extractor on Mauser actions I must be missing someting as I have never encountered an issue with one being too loose. Sure it happens but to say it's to be expected is ridiculous. They have been in production for well over 100 years so it's not like Kimber is still tweaking some new design. It's sloppy Manufactuing at its finest. Kimber needs to stand behind what they sell. I bought a CZ 550 once that wouldn't meet their accuracy standard so I called and they said ship it back. Couple weeks later I had a brand new gun in my hands. No questions asked what so ever. That is customer service. Thank of the sales Kimber has lost just over this one thread. 5000 views I bet several people have chose to go any other route than Kimber.
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Posts: 151,114
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,114 |
I'm hearing a lot of bad things about them.
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