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Originally Posted by ringworm
Originally Posted by USSR1991
Originally Posted by ringworm

Yeah...I think that when I put a couple 9MM bullets from a PPK center mass, they are going to be as effective as if they came out of a G26.


Have seen deer killed with a .22 rimfire. That doesn't make it a deer cartridge or particularly "effective".

Don

So, by that logic, we should all carry 50AE?
I assure you...I am quite confident in a .380s ability to stop a threat at a reasonable distance.
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
I also don't wear neck knives, photojournalist vestsr or carry a "CCW badge".
Reality got to me early I guess.


You maybe quite confident, but I wouldn't be.



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Originally Posted by ringworm
....I assure you...I am quite confident in a .380s ability to stop a threat at a reasonable distance......Reality got to me early I guess


If you actually ever shot anything but paper with it, reality might get to your confidence.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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What would you suggest I shoot to simulate an armed response?
Please... Feel free to list the multitude of shootings you've been involved in for us , Harry.

Who said I ever shot paper?
I just fill it up with ball and toss it in my purse.... Yawn.


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Originally Posted by ringworm
What would you suggest I shoot to simulate an armed response?
Please... Feel free to list the multitude of shootings you've been involved in for us , Harry.

Who said I ever shot paper?
I just fill it up with ball and toss it in my purse.... Yawn.


Feel free to list the multitude of shootings you've been involved in as well. Also how many were with the 380.


Last edited by jwp475; 01/19/17.


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My 28 years toting a pistol concealed and 8 in a duty rig would surely bore this salty crowd.
I obviously have much to learn hereon the internet... since I've made it this far on pure luck.


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Originally Posted by ringworm
My 28 years toting a pistol concealed and 8 in a duty rig would surely bore this salty crowd.
I obviously have much to learn hereon the internet... since I've made it this far on pure luck.


With many documented instances of bad guys being shot multiple times with 9mm, 40 S&W, 45, etc and even AR-15's,. That would indicate this statement to be hopefull, more so than definitive.

Originally Posted by ringworm

I assure you...I am quite confident in a .380s ability to stop a threat at a reasonable distance.
.



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Originally Posted by ringworm
What would you suggest I shoot to simulate an armed response?
Please... Feel free to list the multitude of shootings you've been involved in for us , Harry.

Who said I ever shot paper?
I just fill it up with ball and toss it in my purse.... Yawn.


We're not talking tactics here, just effectiveness of a handgun. You could start with trying to kill something bigger than a cat with it. Multitude of shootings? Yeah, I've killed a multitude of living things with handguns. Mostly not bigger than a jackrabbit. I got rid of my one and only .380 many moons ago. No confidence in it here after seeing its lack of penetration. If it's all one can carry, it beats a pointy stick. But confidence inspiring, it is not.


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Originally Posted by ringworm

(sic)
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
(sic)


Some of us live where there is a good chance of being confronted with a 6'-4" Samoan wearing a winter coat, though PCP doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

I think most rational people realize there is a minimum amount of penetration required to reliable hit the vitals. Also most rational people realize the 22rf, 25 acp, 32 acp and 380 just don't have enough power to reliable achieve that goal in real world situations.

If you're going to sneak up and slip one behind the ear, then those rounds are fine. But that use doesn't fall under a typical DLP shooting, in fact it would most likely be considered murder.

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by ringworm

(sic)
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
(sic)


Some of us live where there is a good chance of being confronted with a 6'-4" Samoan wearing a winter coat, though PCP doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

I think most rational people realize there is a minimum amount of penetration required to reliable hit the vitals. Also most rational people realize the 22rf, 25 acp, 32 acp and 380 just don't have enough power to reliable achieve that goal in real world situations.

If you're going to sneak up and slip one behind the ear, then those rounds are fine. But that use doesn't fall under a typical DLP shooting, in fact it would most likely be considered murder.


I've seen 22LR out penetrate a 380 before, they aren't much but better than nothing. Can't understand why anyone without physical limitations would choose one for his primary weapon.



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Mental limitations?

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by ringworm

(sic)
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
(sic)


Some of us live where there is a good chance of being confronted with a 6'-4" Samoan wearing a winter coat, though PCP doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

I think most rational people realize there is a minimum amount of penetration required to reliable hit the vitals. Also most rational people realize the 22rf, 25 acp, 32 acp and 380 just don't have enough power to reliable achieve that goal in real world situations.

If you're going to sneak up and slip one behind the ear, then those rounds are fine. But that use doesn't fall under a typical DLP shooting, in fact it would most likely be considered murder.


Beg to differ. Ball from a 380 is quite deadly and capable of punching the spine and large vessels alongside it, on frontal shots.


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Originally Posted by SargeMO
Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by ringworm

(sic)
I'm not carrying a weapon on the thin chance I'm confronted by a 6-4", PCP smoking, Samoan wearing a leather coat charging at me from 20 yards away.
(sic)


Some of us live where there is a good chance of being confronted with a 6'-4" Samoan wearing a winter coat, though PCP doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

I think most rational people realize there is a minimum amount of penetration required to reliable hit the vitals. Also most rational people realize the 22rf, 25 acp, 32 acp and 380 just don't have enough power to reliable achieve that goal in real world situations.

If you're going to sneak up and slip one behind the ear, then those rounds are fine. But that use doesn't fall under a typical DLP shooting, in fact it would most likely be considered murder.


Beg to differ. Ball from a 380 is quite deadly and capable of punching the spine and large vessels alongside it, on frontal shots.


Maybe, we have a member here that was shot at point blank range in the chest with a 6" 38 special and the bullet cracked his chest bone but did not make it inside the chest cavity. He grabbed the revolver and hit the guy over the head hard enough to crack his skull open.
I've shift ball Ammo from a 380 and was not impressed at all with the penetration.



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380 and even good 32ACP BALL penetrates well enough to be effective for defense.
The Germans and later the Russians with the Makarov proved it.
All you need is reasonably hot ammo.

Last edited by night_owl; 01/20/17.


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Originally Posted by night_owl
380 and even good 32ACP ball penetrates well enough to be effective for defense.
The Germans and later the Russians with the Makarov proved it.
All you need is reasonably hot ammo.


That's why they are still preferred, by most law enforcement agencies and militaries?



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Selling weapons to military and law enforcement is a business. For many decades American cops carried weak 38 Special RN rounds in nice quality revolvers - good guns and usually effective.
Hot 380 ball probably penetrates better than those old 38s.

Last edited by night_owl; 01/20/17.


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Originally Posted by night_owl
Selling weapons to military and law enforcement is a business. For many decades American cops carried weak 38 Special RN rounds in nice quality revolvers - good guns and usually effective.
Hot 380 ball probably penetrates better than those old 38s.


If you think that is effective, you're probably interested in ocean front property in Nevada.



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So all the police departments who carried 38 SPL from the 1920's through the 1980's were being slaughtered on account of the wimpy 38 Special?

The human body is not particularly strong and a well-placed 380 or 38 Special round will do quite a number on the receiving end.



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Originally Posted by night_owl
So all the police departments who carried 38 SPL from the 1920's through the 1980's were being slaughtered on account of the wimpy 38 Special?

The human body is not particularly strong and a well-placed 380 or 38 Special round will do quite a number on the receiving end.


They learned and moved on, requirements changed as did the bad guys.



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Most police sidearms are carried and not put into service. Most police officers are very poor shots with hand guns. Most police sidearms are carried for deterrence. Most cops that die on the job do so because they were killed before they could put their sidearm into action.

None of those factors address whether or not the 32 acp, 380 auto or 38 special are good man stoppers.

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During the revolver era in American law enforcement, cartridges (much) more powerful than 38 Special were readily available for the police revolver. That the 38 Special predominated suggests that it was considered adequate.



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