Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters K31 swiss rifle, worth getting?

I have been thinking about getting one of these just 'cause. I have a line on one for $300 and condition looks good. Anything to look out for? Does a beechwood or walnut stock affect value or collectibility? Thanks

i bought 5 of them when the were 89.00 but 300.00 todays prices are fair.

$300 is pretty fair in good shape. You likely won't regret it. Very smooth shifting affairs those rifles are. Accurate and excellent triggers.

cotis,

What the others said--plus I haven't seen that the kind of wood has any bearing on value. Overall condition is more important.

cotis,

Echo what the others are saying - but I have noticed a movement upwards in price lately (within the last few months) with either beech or walnut going for $500 and up. Not sure why unless others are starting to figure out that these are really nice rifles. I have several and use them for vintage military matches - they are very accurate (excellent two stage triggers and quality barrels that typically have excellent bores), overall high quality and just plain cool (of course that is just my opinion!!). Like Mule Deer said the better the condition the higher the price and I've watched some clean specimens go for over $1000 (matching numbers are important to collectors and will affect the value).

In other words for that price - GET IT!......you will not be sorry. A few places have the ammo (GP-11) by the case for around $250 and I highly recommend getting some of that as well (although it is berdan primed and not easy to reload but the ammo/brass is of excellent quality).

Just my biased two cents,

PennDog

p.s. make sure you check under the buttplate for the "troop tag" (the owner would write his name and troop information on a tag and under the buttplate) another cool feature

I think they've become the darling of Vintage Service Rifle matches (or whatever they're called).




Dave

Just throwing in my two cents based on a sample of one and some research on the breed. They are very accurate and while it has a two stage military trigger, if mine is an average example they break as well if not better than most modern factory triggers. My barrel slugged at .307" so standard .308 bullets work just fine. It's a modern rifle so there should be no problems using modern book loads. That 7.5x55 case is kind of neat and has a good volume for the length. I'm guessing it would have been used for a lot more wildcats except it has a "non-standard" case head diameter (i.e. not .473"), you use the same shellholder as a .30-30 for it.

The straight pull bolt is a bit weird, they out-engineered the Germans with that one, but it works well and is very quick to use for a right hander. Since you have to give a smart pull to get it going, unless you have a deft touch it tends to fling empties up over your head a ways. Most will have roughness around the end of the butt, I understand that is from the Swiss soldiers' shouldered crampons banging against the shouldered rifle, but otherwise should be in pretty good shape.

All in all they are very well made rifles and a bargain at $300 in today's world.

You can find some good info here: http://www.swissrifles.com/

Jim,

I read that the buttstocks got beat up because of placing the butts on ground during drill, next to crampon-equipped boots.

From the good ol' internet one can get a few versions of the story, yours is probably correct but I knew those darn crampons were responsible somehow...

Yep, the possibilities of the Internet are endless!

I bought a Schmidt Rubin K-31 in 7.5 Swiss for $90 + $12 tax from BIG5 sporting goods on 5/4/2002.
I bought a Schmidt Rubin K-31 in 7.5 Swiss for $80 at a gunshow in 2004.
Mine have Beech stocks. The Walnut stocks are more desired.

I got some 284 brass and a Lee 7.5 Swiss die set, some 168 gr Match Kings, IMR4895, and went to the range. I got 4" groups with open sights, which is as good as I can see.
The action is harder to operate with ammo.

Nothing to see here except..... the weird names under the butt plates.

The one I am looking at does not have a name tag under the butt plate. I have spent a fair amount of time in Switzerland, part of the reason I wan to own one of these.

Certifiable, I have stayed in Kloten the past few times I have been to CH, it's the area around the Zurich airport.

I plan on purchasing the rifle whenever the seller and I can meet up.

That's too bad. My eyes are 64 years old, I put a Mojo sight on mine and get 5 shot groups of about 1.5" at 100 or sometimes a shade less, this is with Hornady 150 Spire Points and a charge of IMR4895.

Speaking of prices, in 1965 you could get milsurps from all kinds of countries for $12 or less delivered TYD by the US mail. In 1968 my father bought a NIB genuine shiny blued Colt Gov't Model 1911 for well under $100 at a LGS - he thought he paid too much but after his death I sold it (foolishly) for well over $600. In 1945 he got a 1913 Erfurt Luger and two K98's for free. And the point is...?

I bought at K31, #6401xx, back in 1998 from our departed friend, Mark Benenson. It is a good shooter, I've used it for Swiss Shooting Federation matches.

The last time that I looked at Graf & Son, loaded 7x5x55 ammo from PPU was only slightly more expensive than new, unprimed, brass from PPU and about one-half as expensive as new, unprimed, brass from Norma.

I never worry about ammo. I'm shooting Privi brass from Graf with 168's and IMR 4320. Shoots great.

I had 7 of them I paid $90 each for. When they hit $225 I sold 6 of them. All locally by word of mouth. Didn't even advertise them.

Most of the points have been covered. One that hasn't and is important if you handload is that these rifles have a short throat. There isn't sufficient camming leverage to get the bolt to close on bullets jammed in the lands so keep that in mind if you are going to reload. You will have a hard time beating the performance of GP11 issue ammo on a target. Not familiar with who has good hunting type ammo. You won't find a more accurate milsurp rifle perhaps the exception being some Swedish Mausers with match sights.

I've got two of them and my impression is that most consider the walnut stocks more desirable. Only guys with beech think they are the same. ;-) I also have a set of the original clamp on match sights and get consistent sub-3/4" five shot groups from the bench. I lived in Switzerland in the early nineties and had the opportunity to shoot all the Swiss service rifles from the 1889 up to the current Sig 550 on one of their 300 meter ranges with electronic targets. Pretty cool. Stgw 57 was fun, but the SIG P210 pistols were phenomenally accurate as well.

The excellent trigger report is absolutely true and all barrels I've looked down looked new. They are a fine rifle and mine with a beech stock was gifted to me by a friend.
I have never shot a jacketed bullet through it, only cast. I would tell the size of the groups but, I might be thought a keyboard marksman.

If you ever want to get any work done on a K31, I have heard that Larry Racine in Keene, NH, does good work on them.

www.lprgunsmith.com

I gauged to the ogive on a GP 11 round and did not exceed it.

I only have one K-31, but it has been sporterized.

I got into them early, and more than one, the walnut stocks were earlier guns. Some of the early ones were pretty pristine.
I put a sight mount no drill base on one, it shoots sub m.o.a. at 100yards. the ammo is match quality. the black on the stocks coming from the very complete cleaning kit, a black type grease used both for lubrication and cleaning, with a patch kind of like window screen.
The ammo clips are pretty cool too.
The bayonets are of the highest quality steel. It took me quite a while to find an engineers bayonet with the sawback, it is just plain nasty.
There are a few of the earlier rifles floating around that the k31 was based on, including a calvary carbine version.
I think they are as good or better as the swedish, and as good or better than the finn mosin's which is saying quite a bit.
you can get a lot of information off the website mentioned. I do have a german publication with a k31 on the cover. They were mounting optics on the side and selling them as sniper weapons in south america. I got a bunch of boxer brass too, i think from memory made by starline.
there were original slings imported too and muzzle caps.

century, the importer, had them at one time five for i think from memory 69.00 a piece, course the swedish mausers were like that too.

i seem to remember reading that the kraig 30.40 round was partially based on the earlier version of the k31schmidt

Bought one a few years back on GB..paid more than 300..
closer to 400. With a scope it would be a nail driver.
GP11 ammo made in 1980 was the last I saw available..don't
know if Rohm? is still making it? So I'm using Privi.
If I could buy 'em for 300 and they be in the shape mine is,
I'd buy a dozen!

Here is a 3-shot group (I know those don't count) at 50 yds (again I know that doesn't count but it was all I had that day) for my Swiss K-31 with diopter sights and GP-11 ammo. I use this particular rifle at a local egg shoot where the egg is hung at 90 yds and you must shoot offhand (if you break the egg you win a ham (Easter)or turkey (Thanksgiving)) and so far this rifle is 5 of 13 - if a better shooter were pulling the trigger I'm sure the hit percentage would be higher!!





PennDog

I shot my BIL.s at a VMBAR match and went and bought 2 for $100.00 each. The surplus ammo was match grade and dirt cheap. I sold the 1903 that they replaced for $500.00 and spent it all on ammo. I would shoot it until the barrel was smoking hot, pour some water down it and shoot some more. Great rifles.


mike r

One thing right handers might not note but is apparent right off to a lefty is that the stock indentations are offset. On most rifles the forearm indentations (I don't know the specific nomenclature for those) are directly opposite each other, but on the K31 the one the left is forward of the one on the right. So when you grab the forend with your left (forward) hand, the thumb falls perfectly in the left one while the fingers curled under it fall exactly into the right hand one.

Not exactly a John Browning level of innovative design but I thought it was interesting and not something most military designers would think of doing.

if you like the K31, you would probably like the 1911.
i have one of the long rifles, and the carbine version.
the carbine is pretty handy.
there was at one time a guy on the schmidt rifle forum selling side mount bases, and they were also in brownells.
name slips my mind but something like st. pierre i think.
the side mount is on the right which makes it real good for a left handed person like me.
I have a lot of the swiss ammo but don't like to shoot it, afraid of not getting more.
mostly reloads in starline brass and a sierra bullet.
At one point i got to go through a pile of about 1500 of them, and there were some sweet rifles in there.
https://www.classicfirearms.com/k31-rifles


the mag clips are a hoot:
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/sclip/

these are the cleaning kits, well worth the money. I got a bunch of them off ebay, still had the grease in the cans.
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=100

i have one of the 1914 pioneer engineers bayonet. that length and the sawback are just flat wicked.
http://www.swissrifles.com/bayonets/
they are also quite expensive these days.

as to the ammo, 480 round case came in a cardboard box, i am pretty sure you could throw that in a lake, come back a month later and it would still be water tight: https://www.classicfirearms.com/7-5-swiss-ammo-176

the k31-55 schmidt with the beehive
http://modernfirearms.net/rifle/repeating-rifle/switch/k31-e.html
I got to shoot one of these, but could no way afford it.

I picked up the K31 today! Happy with it, in decent shape, the stock is a little more worn than the pictures showed. But nothing unusual and to be expected from a 70 year old military rifle. The bore is in excellent shape, as most people said it would be. The front sight blade is pushed back slightly from the staked line, it is favoring the left side. Thinking it might shoot to the right, but need to get some ammo to see!

Seller told me this rifle wouldn't pass rules for the vintage military matches, the trigger is too light and cannot be adjusted. The trigger is light, but very long and smooth. Less than a 3 pound pull. Is it true these cannot be adjusted?

I could use a line on some GP11 ammo. Anyone have a box?

i don't know about that trigger being too light business, might be true. But i have shot one in a vintage rifle match more than once. Course nobody was checking triggers.
You can clean up that wood but be careful not to remove the logo on right side of buttstock. I have probably redone ten or more of them. You can find a recipe for the right colors on staining the wood too online.

http://www.southernohiogun.com/swiss-7-5x55-gp11-ammo.html

cotis - nice rifle!! I'm not sure about the trigger adjustability either (never had to tinker with it and like RoninPhx never had a problem at any of the matches I've been in?

As for ammo try this:
http://www.luckygunner.com/7-5x55mm-swiss-174-gr-fmjbt-ruag-munitions-surplus-480

also Midway has some Prvi ammo.

Have fun you will enjoy!
PennDog

i should add if you go to the swiss schmidt forum, page, they have some stuff on there about accurizing, which i have never felt a need to do, but the instructions are there.
there use to be a guy there who lived in switzerland and you could get those upgraded match sights from him.
i should dig out and post a picture of a schmidt with that 1914engineers bayonet on it, make a good spear for hogs.
awesome. Blade without looking was solingen steel.

Which forum is this? I should be back in Switzerland this year, I wonder if I can pick up some accessories such as sights and bring them back?

Swiss Rifle Message Board is one forum.

The sights, when you can find them, are no bargain in Switzerland. I lived there for a year in 1991 and worked for a Swiss company and would go back 2-3 times a year. I brought back two sets of the clamp on sights but they cost $250 each twenty years ago and I doubt they've come down any. Stuff is expensive in Switzerland. For a while a guy in the US was making sights, scope mounts and other accessories that were very fairly priced, but don't know if he is still producing. No problem I'm aware of bring them back in your suitcase.

Regarding the trigger pull, it can be adjusted/tuned but you need to know what you are doing. Everyone I've ever tried though, was about perfect.

"NEVER TRUST WHAT YOU READ ON THE INTERNET."
Abraham Lincoln 1849

Anyone have any knowledge about the left hand bolt kit for this gun. I know they are out there. I wanted to buy a K-31 at one time but could not find any of the LH kits for sale.

I had a MidwayUSA ad for 7.5x55 Swiss GP-11 mil-surp ammo show up in my email inbox today, $30 for 60 rounds or $235 for 480 rounds.

Thanks! I just checked my email and see this. Ordering some now.

Dad came home from Europe at war's end with two Mausers, and a couple Lugers. One was supposedly one of the long barreled ones with adjustable sights. Sold 'em after the war for $50.00 each because he needed money.