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JB,,,,,,I recently came across your Dec 10, 2014 article in the American Rifleman about the 26 Nosler. I am extremely interested in adding this cartridge to the three below.

I notice that Browning offers this round in some of its X Bolt rifles.

On the Browning site in one of their news articles written by a Browning staff member, I read that Browning is chrome lining all barrels chambered in the 26 Nosler in order to increase the barrel/barrel throat life expectancy.

I have heard of this process but have never had a reason until now to inquire for further elaboration.

If you have knowledge of the chrome lining barrel process, can you please elaborate how chrome lining extends barrel life?

My first guess, is that chrome lined barrels better resist the hotter temps and more erosion produced by overbored cartridges.

Thank you.



28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger


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Yeah, that's the basic theory. But I've also seen military research indicating chrome-plating didn't significantly retard the erosion of the steel UNDER the chrome. My limited experience with a few chrome-lined barrels tends to agree with this.

My own 26 Nosler Model 48 doesn't show much throat erosion after around 250 rounds, and the Pac-Nor barrel is not chrome-lined.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yeah, that's the basic theory. But I've also seen military research indicating chrome-plating didn't significantly retard the erosion of the steel UNDER the chrome. My limited experience with a few chrome-lined barrels tends to agree with this.

My own 26 Nosler Model 48 doesn't show much throat erosion after around 250 rounds, and the Pac-Nor barrel is not chrome-lined.
......Thank you.....Between range work and hunting, I will probably run 80 to 120 rounds per year through it and letting the barrel cool down a bit in-between shots.

Based on how I will use it, the barrel should last about 10 years or so.

Thanks again.



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I've heard(probably here) that chrome lining can hurt accuracy.



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I like my 26 Nosler, a M-700 7RM rebarreled with a 26" #2 SS Shilen. After around 400 rounds, I can see very early erosion with the Hawkeye. Nothing to worry about, it's still a half MOA shooter.

It would be interesting to see if chrome lined barrels were as accurate as premium SS tubes.

I'm a hunter and this barrel will last me as long as I will hunt. I do have a number of rifles to shoot, so this one doesn't get all the wear.

It's a flat shooter, kicks about like a 7RM. I use 869 and 872 powder with Fed 215's, 140 NAB's/NPT's and 120 E-Tips/TTSX's.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I like my 26 Nosler, a M-700 7RM rebarreled with a 26" #2 SS Shilen. After around 400 rounds, I can see very early erosion with the Hawkeye. Nothing to worry about, it's still a half MOA shooter.

It would be interesting to see if chrome lined barrels were as accurate as premium SS tubes.

I'm a hunter and this barrel will last me as long as I will hunt. I do have a number of rifles to shoot, so this one doesn't get all the wear.

It's a flat shooter, kicks about like a 7RM. I use 869 and 872 powder with Fed 215's, 140 NAB's/NPT's and 120 E-Tips/TTSX's.

DF

....Thanks. Good input.....Browning apparently recognized the problem ahead of time deciding to chrome line all 26 Nosler barrels.

So far, I haven't read anything about an X Bolt chambered in a 26 Nosler having accuracy issues.



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While they seem to be not liked here on the Campfire you'll probably not read much about an inaccurate X-Bolt in any chambering.

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bigsqueeze,

The 26 has been around long enough that Nosler's gotten plenty of feedback about barrel life. Most customers report at least 1000 rounds, or a little more, though one said his lasted 1600 rounds before accuracy deteriorated.

Of course, a lot depends on how they're shot. Getting the barrel hot means shorter barrel life, of course.

Mine has been shot more than it probably would have been by somebody else, because most shooting has been done to test loads for articles. Otherwise I might have only shot it half as much, enough to confirm its best load and then get the scope dialed-in--which didn't take much.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
bigsqueeze,

The 26 has been around long enough that Nosler's gotten plenty of feedback about barrel life. Most customers report at least 1000 rounds, or a little more, though one said his lasted 1600 rounds before accuracy deteriorated.

Of course, a lot depends on how they're shot. Getting the barrel hot means shorter barrel life, of course.

Mine has been shot more than it probably would have been by somebody else, because most shooting has been done to test loads for articles. Otherwise I might have only shot it half as much, enough to confirm its best load and then get the scope dialed-in--which didn't take much.

What scope reticle you have on your 26 Nosler John?


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Going with known performing loads, as with Nosler's data, saves a lot of random firing to establish a good combo.

It's an overbore round, but as someone said, it's not really overbore if you can find slow enough powder... grin

So, the slowest of the slow seem optimal in this application.

With these rounds, the 6.5/300 Wby included, you're buring a LOT more powder for a little more speed, diminishing returns for sure.

But, at long range, bucking wind, they're in a class of their own.

I like mine.

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AMRA,

For the last year or so have had a 4-12x40 Leupold VX-R with the FireDot Wind-Plex reticle mounted on the 26, as much to test the scope as the rifle, since I'd had the rifle for long enough to try various loads. So far I like it.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
AMRA,

For the last year or so have had a 4-12x40 Leupold VX-R with the FireDot Wind-Plex reticle mounted on the 26, as much to test the scope as the rifle, since I'd had the rifle for long enough to try various loads. So far I like it.


I've been kind of 'eye-balling' the M48 in 26 Nosler myself. Have you run any 140gr Partitions, and if so, how's the velocity and accuracy, John?

Thanks!
Tim


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Not John, obviously, but here's my set up. A Z3 4-12x50 BT with turret marked with Sharpie for yardage. It's a duplex and works well.

I got this smoke damaged 7RM BDL for cheap. I was able to use the factory stock, pillared, glassed and free floated it, added a Timney 510. I added a RUM box, made sure the box didn't bind.

Even though the 26 Nosler is a 3.4" round, I like the full 3.6" mag. Gives more room for longer COAL's.

Lot of performance on the cheap... smile

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Originally Posted by Whiptail

I've heard(probably here) that chrome lining can hurt accuracy.


There may be some military barrels where the chrome lined version is less accurate than the plain steel ones that has generated this myth, but I have a J.C. Higgins Model 50 bolt action that refutes it. The Model 50 uses an FN Mauser action with a chrome lined High Standard barrel and they are extremely accurate.

Chrome lining might hurt accuracy if done poorly, but if done well is no hindrance at all.

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Other than the RUM box did you have to do anything else to make sure the fatter 26 Nosler round would feed well?

Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Not John, obviously, but here's my set up. A Z3 4-12x50 BT with turret marked with Sharpie for yardage. It's a duplex and works well.

I got this smoke damaged 7RM BDL for cheap. I was able to use the factory stock, pillared, glassed and free floated it, added a Timney 510. I added a RUM box, made sure the box didn't bind.

Even though the 26 Nosler is a 3.4" round, I like the full 3.6" mag. Gives more room for longer COAL's.

Lot of performance on the cheap... smile

DF

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Yeah, that's the basic theory. But I've also seen military research indicating chrome-plating didn't significantly retard the erosion of the steel UNDER the chrome. My limited experience with a few chrome-lined barrels tends to agree with this.

My own 26 Nosler Model 48 doesn't show much throat erosion after around 250 rounds, and the Pac-Nor barrel is not chrome-lined.


John how could the steel erode under the chrome? Please explain because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Thanks.


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I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


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I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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bellydeep,

Heat is the major factor in barrel erosion, eroding the steel, which eventually causes cracking of the surface. Even if chrome-lined, the chrome can crack too, which actually accelerates erosion because cracks in surface of steel keep the super-heated gas circulating in that area, rather than blowing down the bore.

I did this with one of the J.C. Higgins rifles mentioned by natman, a .270 Winchester. Like his rifle, mine was very accurate, but eventually the accuracy started deteriorating. My bore-scope revealed that the surface throat cracked just like it would without chrome-plating. It may have taken longer, but I don't know.

One thing that can help when the cracking starts is a few fire-lapping rounds, which smooth out the cracks and slow the erosion. I did that with the .270 but it didn't help as much as it had in other rifles, so I rebarreled it to 6.5x55.


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Wouldn't melonite treatment be useful in barrels for erosion prone cartridges?

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That's what I have heard from people I trust, but haven't tried it yet.


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Originally Posted by gerrygoat
Other than the RUM box did you have to do anything else to make sure the fatter 26 Nosler round would feed well?

Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Not John, obviously, but here's my set up. A Z3 4-12x50 BT with turret marked with Sharpie for yardage. It's a duplex and works well.

I got this smoke damaged 7RM BDL for cheap. I was able to use the factory stock, pillared, glassed and free floated it, added a Timney 510. I added a RUM box, made sure the box didn't bind.

Even though the 26 Nosler is a 3.4" round, I like the full 3.6" mag. Gives more room for longer COAL's.

Lot of performance on the cheap... smile

DF

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Yes.

The fat Nosler round wouldn't pass between the rails, had to open them up.

JB said he had a 700 that would pass the Nosler round. My .375 H&H M-70 Classic will pass the Nosler round.

So, I guess it depends on the action. Cutting the rails back a bit isn't that big a deal, may need some tweaking for smooth feed.

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There's an article waiting to be written.

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There are a zillion articles waiting to be written!

For some reason many people think it's tough for a writer to come up with ideas. I've never had that problem. Instead the problem is too damn many possible subjects, and the time required to do justice to each.


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I should have put a smiley. grin

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That works!


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by gerrygoat
Other than the RUM box did you have to do anything else to make sure the fatter 26 Nosler round would feed well?

Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Not John, obviously, but here's my set up. A Z3 4-12x50 BT with turret marked with Sharpie for yardage. It's a duplex and works well.

I got this smoke damaged 7RM BDL for cheap. I was able to use the factory stock, pillared, glassed and free floated it, added a Timney 510. I added a RUM box, made sure the box didn't bind.

Even though the 26 Nosler is a 3.4" round, I like the full 3.6" mag. Gives more room for longer COAL's.

Lot of performance on the cheap... smile

DF

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Yes.

The fat Nosler round wouldn't pass between the rails, had to open them up.

JB said he had a 700 that would pass the Nosler round. My .375 H&H M-70 Classic will pass the Nosler round.

So, I guess it depends on the action. Cutting the rails back a bit isn't that big a deal, may need some tweaking for smooth feed.

DF


Thanks I'm not sure I want to modify my gun, I'll have to see how well it feeds a fatter round.


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I can imagine the overhead involved in such an article. You'd have to assemble a collection of chrome moly and stainless barrels, with examples of each in button rifled and cut rifled form, with examples of each of those in plain, chromed, and melonited.

Then you'd need the quantity of bullets, powder, brass, primers and time to burn them all up.

This could eat up a few range trips.

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Yep.

The only way it would be practical is to melonite a new barrel on a prairie dog rifle, then try to shoot it out. Should have melonited the new barrel I put on my .204 a couple-three years ago, then used the bore-scope to observe any changes. Have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to erode a .204 barrel.

Some articles are the result of several years of shooting. Ran a scope "review" last year after using the same scope on my .204 for six years. But even that wouldn't have worked if that model had been dropped by the company in the interim, which happens quite often in that much time these days.


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I have a 26 with chrome lined barrel I'm cranking up now. Will the chrome lining provide for ease of cleaning or is there any different cleaning procedures?


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I wasn't planning to go back to 7RM, so had no problem with working on the action.

I'd not want to bet against it working again as a 7RM. I don't think these alterations would ruin it for 7RM, .300WM, etc...

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FN SPR sniper rifles have chrome lined barrels, and I have never heard anyone complain about their accuracy. Got the info below from Sniper Central 2014 review of an FNH SPR A3.

"One interesting feature that is not found on most other precision rifles is that the bore is chrome-lined. It is generally accepted that chrome-lining a barrel, unless done correctly, can negatively affect the accuracy of the barrel. FN claims that they have the process mastered, and the .5 MOA requirement seems to confirm that they have, and that the positive effects of a superior barrel life and the ease of maintenance outweigh the difficulty and costs of doing the chrome lining. The FBI required a 10,000 round barrel life without losing the .5 MOA accuracy requirement and the FN was able to pass those tests as well. An older out of production SPR A4 rifle we had on hand here does not have the chrome lined barrel, but checking the current FN catalog shows that all of their current lineup of SPR rifles have the chrome lined bores."

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Originally Posted by spence1875
FN SPR sniper rifles have chrome lined barrels, and I have never heard anyone complain about their accuracy. Got the info below from Sniper Central 2014 review of an FNH SPR A3.

"One interesting feature that is not found on most other precision rifles is that the bore is chrome-lined. It is generally accepted that chrome-lining a barrel, unless done correctly, can negatively affect the accuracy of the barrel. FN claims that they have the process mastered, and the .5 MOA requirement seems to confirm that they have, and that the positive effects of a superior barrel life and the ease of maintenance outweigh the difficulty and costs of doing the chrome lining. The FBI required a 10,000 round barrel life without losing the .5 MOA accuracy requirement and the FN was able to pass those tests as well. An older out of production SPR A4 rifle we had on hand here does not have the chrome lined barrel, but checking the current FN catalog shows that all of their current lineup of SPR rifles have the chrome lined bores."


What cartridge were they talking about? I would be surprised if any 50,000 psi rifle would hold its accuracy for 10,000 rounds.


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Originally Posted by IndyCA35


What cartridge were they talking about? I would be surprised if any 50,000 psi rifle would hold its accuracy for 10,000 rounds.





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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to erode a .204 barrel.


John, as an aside - how long does a 204 barrel last?


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Depends on the barrel and how hot you shoot it, of course, but I have never been shy about heating up barrels on PD towns. I replaced the last one after less than 2000 rounds. It was still hitting PD's, but not like it had been.


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Thank you, John.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
bellydeep,

Heat is the major factor in barrel erosion, eroding the steel, which eventually causes cracking of the surface. Even if chrome-lined, the chrome can crack too, which actually accelerates erosion because cracks in surface of steel keep the super-heated gas circulating in that area, rather than blowing down the bore.

I did this with one of the J.C. Higgins rifles mentioned by natman, a .270 Winchester. Like his rifle, mine was very accurate, but eventually the accuracy started deteriorating. My bore-scope revealed that the surface throat cracked just like it would without chrome-plating. It may have taken longer, but I don't know.

One thing that can help when the cracking starts is a few fire-lapping rounds, which smooth out the cracks and slow the erosion. I did that with the .270 but it didn't help as much as it had in other rifles, so I rebarreled it to 6.5x55.


on average chrome lining extends the life of a barrel, in a milspec type KA, Noveske, DD, or Colt AR15 5.56 barrel the chrome does not even smooth out and start shooting well until about 1000 rounds. There is a reason that .gov still after all of these years puts the stuff in machine guns and not because they want to spend money. I think melanite however is the future.


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Chrome inside a machine gun barrel does extend useful life, but machine guns don't normally require fine accuracy, so when it starts cracking in the throat area it's no big deal.


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you might remember a fracas in southeast asia and a dude named Macnamara who allegedly got some men killed due to his belief the rifles did not need chrome in the barrels. I have a milspec Danial Defense barrel that I shot in a challenge last year IIRC it produced a bit over a MOA with 55 grain V-max. This barrel has well over 1000 round through it.


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You're misunderstanding what I just wrote.


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The military also uses Stellite tp line machine gun barrels. Stellite was the coating used on the old hard tip chainsaw bars.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Chrome inside a machine gun barrel does extend useful life, but machine guns don't normally require fine accuracy, so when it starts cracking in the throat area it's no big deal.


Amen.... most folks would gasp if they saw what sorta abuse a MG goes thru on a single live fire exercise. They are a lot of fun to shoot, not so much to carry though.

As to their accuracy, I've seen a bunch of the M240G's stack plain old ball on top of one another while zeroing the ELCans using single loaded rounds. Trigger pulls are long but the guns themselves are heavy and when set up right are pretty solid.


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Originally Posted by spence1875
FN SPR sniper rifles have chrome lined barrels, and I have never heard anyone complain about their accuracy.

Those were hand-selected barrels. Thousands to choose from, only a few selected.


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