Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Accubond or Berger VLD

I hate discussions like this that turn otherwise friends into enemies. What you all should be bitching about - to the manufacturers is the lack of terminal ballistic details available to the consumer. I have a 30-year old Sierra manual that lists the best velocity range for every bullet they produced. With the velocities produced today there is no bullet that will be ideal at all ranges. If it is a long range bullet then is should be designed to open up well at lower end velocities; however, shoot it at a live target at 100 yards and that same bullet can open up like a grenade. Likewise hitting meat or bone - at higher or lower velocities - can give totally differening results.

I'm sure both bullets discussed will work for the gentleman but in differing scenarios - and only he can best predict which will fit his most likely hunting situation. I have not shot Bergers although I've read all that I can on them. Being in SC the opportunities for long range shots are very limited - if I lived out west, I would definitely give them a try at long range. However inspite of my less than lofty opinions of Nosler as a responsible ammunition manufacturer, I have used Nosler BT's and AB's and have had great if not totally predictable results. My qualifier is that I doubt that few if any shots (across all the different calibers I shoot) have ever impacted an animal over 3000fps. Bottomline, it is so easy to generalize negatives and positives from an isolated incident, especially when it is human nature to 'want' a desired outcome. As far as I'm concerned most of this is comparing apples and oranges.

Never mind that the sierra data is off by a bit needless to say....

Sierra makes good match bullets. The rest is just about junk.

That's a cool bunch of recovered Accubonds. They look just about like any of the others I've been able to catch.

killed a lot of critters with Sierra hpbt game kings over the years. Accurate and dependable. Coyotes to elk.

Here are the only two I have recovered, I know you have seen them but many others have not. No bullet failures here........

35 Whelen 200 gr Accubond from black bear, it is .660" across and retained 69% on it's weight, 2840 fps shot at around 50 yards





35 Whelen 225 gr Accubond from moose, it is .710" across and retained 84.9% on it's weight, 2760 fps shot at under 50 yards.

Awesome pictures Gerry. Both of those look perfect.

I will do that. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking forward to shooting that 200gr Accubond. I've always had good accuracy and velocity(with the 200gr AB) out of various 30 cal magnums, just never killed anything with them, for whatever reason? Looking forward to changing that.

Very impressive!

That's a great choice in any 30 caliber Magnum. They're rough on elk and deer.

Respectfully Rost495, there has been more game taken with Sierra, Speer, and Hornady "old-school" bullets than all others combined. Remember that they did not have the technologies available today. The point I was making though, was that they gave the handloader the appropriate velocities to get the best terminal performance from their bullets and they posted plenty of feedback via customer reviews and photos as to the effectiveness on a specific species of game. Pretty damn thoughtful compared to today's corporate gimmickry marketing.

I agree on the info part. Of course if you knew Barnes you'd know they give the same info, impact above X fps suggested. AND they work way better than sierra.

I've killed, well lets just say a couple of deer before barnes ever came along...

And I still knew as a kid in grade school, that bullets should really perform more consisttently, then you'd know what to expect.

Of course it doesn't take much to kill a deer. Good old 22lr, and according to my mentor his father used 22 shorts for a lot of deer. Not in the head either.

Just cause a boat load of deer were killed with the 30-30 doesn't mean it didn't have flaws...

Having shot and seen deer shot from up close to far out, and with just about anything you can think of, except a spear, I've come to appreciate consistency. I've found that in Lehigh and Barnes. And berger isn't to far behind, they are much more consistent that Sierra... I should have been done with green, when I had one of their pistol bullets not open at all on a deer for my wife. Luckily she shot him in the heart, like she generally did with her archery kills. They told me not enough speed for their pistol bullet to open... and I said, really? Out of a 30-30 16 inch contender round?

I probably made a mistake years ago when starting out loading with a lee loader in grade school, and Speer bullets, should have never bought big green... speer did a lot more consistent for me.

But I digress... I don't know about gimmickry marketing, but I can do wihtout hunting shows, gadgets, high fives, and having to have everything on a show listed down to what real tree AP toilet paper helped with the kill...

this

A friend of mine had the same thing happen with a 168 TTSX out of a 24" .308 barrel at 60 yards on an elk. Bullet looked new, minus the tip. Lucky for him he hit it in the heart.

Rost, I could finish off my career using nothing but game kings and be fine with it.

I haven't used these in the field yet, but my Weatherby Vanguard Back Country sure likes them.





It likes the 180 Partition just as much, though, and I have a great deal of positive experience with Partitions. If you go Berger on elk, I think JB would advise you to stay away from shoulder shots. From what I've read broadside through the ribs is the shot you want with Bergers.





P

Its funny how they guys that hit the animal bone/shoulder are complaining about the meat damage and blaming the bullet. (regardless of brand)

This guy I took out in October with 160gr AccuBond out of 7mm RM and there was no meat damage. And he was standing less than 50 yards from me so pretty much 3000fps.

just saying ...

[img]http://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...32c2a50ed3aa6e057a416d7a&oe=5906BEC5[/img]

I have shot just about everything that I have killed with AccuBonds ever since they became available--both here and in Namibia. I have never had a "failure", regardless of how anyone would define it, nor have I recovered very many of them.

I will probably try a 185 TTSX on elk in my .330-06 Improved this year, just because it shoots very tiny groups with them. The '06 will be loaded with 168 Hunting VLDs because I want to see how they perform on game for me. Don't know if I will hunt deer this year, but if I do, I will be trying 115 Ballistic Tips in the .257 AI.

Why the changes? I am old and bored and have a lot of time to spend in the reloading room and on the range.

I have been impressed with the 130gr VLD out of both my 6.5 Creeds. Love the accuracy and everything shot has went less than 30-40yds.

I guess we all view the world through our own filter.

In my view game bullets need to produce repeatable wound channels in game. Wound channels kill not retained bullet weights.

If a bullet reliably produces a wound channel of sufficient depth and volume to quickly kill the animal then it is not a failure no matter what the finale condition of the bullet.

I promise that the 140 AB on the left killed very quickly if not instantly. It weighed 59 gr afterward and the chest was a train wreck.

The two 140 gr BBC's on the right killed so fast I lost them in recoil.The damage was impressive. Retained weight was 98% plus.

People miss the point entirely with retained weight.....the retained weight is part of the design of the bullet and what makes it work,the same way a Berger or other work by blowing themselves to pieces.