|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,052 |
Bob,
My point was that "hunting" bullets also vary considerably in construction, so all "hunting" bullets don't act the same way either. And no, not all "hunting" bullets always act exactly the same way, even if they're the same brand and type.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,335 |
Some hunters deliberately use the Target VLD's, which also work but don't provide the quicker kills of the Hunting VLD's. They prefer (or believe they should prefer) the "tougher" version
Deliberate.230 OTM. Bergers kill, fast. SST and Berger aren't even in the same category (last statement not directed at Mule Deer, I'm sure he's aware) ![[Linked Image]](http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg342/steveberrett/451C8D53-FC52-42D9-BDF4-1C0F2889F347_zps3fr5ycrz.jpg)
Last edited by rosco1; 01/15/17.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
VLD or SST?
Easy choice for me. Neither.
Barnes TTSX, yes.
Nosler AccuBond, yes.
Nosler Partition, yes.
North Fork SS, yes.
Speer Grand Slam, yes.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,229 |
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,805
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,805 |
I'm going to solid carbide with copper driving bands. Deer around here are pretty tough. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
The reason I asked Jeremybj exactly which Berger VLD he used was because I've run into quite a few hunters who for some reason didn't use the Hunting VLD's--the model that kills so quickly. Instead they used the Target VLD's, which have a thicker jacket, so don't do nearly as much internal damage.
Some hunters deliberately use the Target VLD's, which also work but don't provide the quicker kills of the Hunting VLD's. They prefer (or believe they should prefer) the "tougher" version.
But some simply don't know there's a difference. They've heard about Berger VLD's on game, so buy a box--which may be the Target bullets, which come in yellow boxes. The Hunting version comes in orange boxes. I"ll toss a bit of input in. I ran the yellow box, assumign I was running target, but then JB explained all that to me. I tried a new box of "target" ones a few years ago as I was happy with what yellow box 185s did out of my 26 inch 308. Pencil in, nickel or so out, destruction inside, dead. Actually dang near exactly what TTSX have been doing perfectly for years now. But a better BC for my longer shots... I use the 308 way on out there on deer if I have the need to.( and why I have a 257 wtby is beyond me... lol) So move forward to the new target box... I did NOT want more destruction that I thought I'd get from the hunting version... Shot 2 spikes, around 350 yards... could not find either. Was not happy. Chip shots that were on the money when the shots broke.(prior to owning a dog...) Anyway was shooting up what was left of the old yellow box at that point. And ordered an orange box. I have not shot the orange box on but a couple of deer, and all has been well. This past season, shot the old yellow box and had 2 shots, that were ribs only, that left horrible exit holes... I have NO clue why after probably over 100 animals, all of a sudden 2 did this, in a row... It is what it is. The orange box amazed me, they have more or less mirrored what the yellow ones have been doing. This fall I had all these target ones loaded, so I shot 2 more deer with them. Pencil in, maybe dime/nickel max out. Deer ran about twice as far as with the hunting versions, but none hit more than 80 yards or so and I've had the hunting ones run that far at times... Target ones internal damage was less, more like damage of nickel size through the lungs and then smaller frags through the lobes... I'd not hesitate to use targets again, I like less damage by far. And thats my choice and since they all die it doesn't matter. But lets get back to the first use of the target.... the 2 spikes not found.... I was about to shoot at a decent 10 2 years ago. Had him bedded at just under 600.... And for some reason I just decided to go home and shoot the gun... found out elevation had quit working. Which explained the spikes, Id' shot under them easily with a 100 yard zero on the gun.... My next goal is try the hunting 215s in the 308 and see if I can end up between the target and hunting versions of 185s damage wise. I've yet to see any failures on the bergers.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
I'm going to solid carbide with copper driving bands. Deer around here are pretty tough. Encased in a sabot out of a 125mm smooth-bore?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
The other thread got me thinking, so I have a question:
Not wanting to start an argument, but asking a legitimate question to those with experience. It seems that many on here detest the SST and many sing the praises of the VLD.
Why the love for Bergers and the hatred for Hornady SST? I've never used a Berger, but have extensive experience with SST's of the 150 gr, 30 cal variety and the 154 gr, 7mm version and a little with the 139 gr, 7mm version on white-tailed deer. In my experience, they do exactly what many on here describe as the ideal performance by making jello of the entire chest cavity. I've personally killed +/-75 deer with a 30-06 SST and have helped drag, load, and skin another 200 deer shot with a 7mmRM SST. These range from 100-275 lbs and from point blank to 400+ yards.
I have seen many, many times when a simple lung shot dumped the deer like it had a semi-truck dropped on it. In fact, I would say dropping in their tracks is more of the rule than the exception when you make any kind of decent center mass shot from about any angle.
The SST probably wouldn't be my first choice for elk or moose, but they sure do a great job on deer in my experience. According to many on this forum, they explode on contact and can't penetrate a deer's shoulder. My experience says they can break 2 shoulders pretty easily and do a lot of damage in between. I would estimate that I had exit holes on 50-70% of the deer that I shot with them. I don't recall a deer ever going far with even a decent shot.
All that being said, I semi-retired the '06 about 5 seasons ago and have been using a 7mm-08 with 120 TTSX more recently which is complete opposite in performance, but shot placement trumps all.
In my limited observations of match bullets on game, terminal performance is more eradicate in the form of almost bullet blow up to little expansion till well into animal creating the large exits.... But by golly, that load could trim the third hair down on a gnats ball sack on the left side though The SST for me has always been like you stated, I've never had one blow up on entrance but that is where the destruction starts. The accuracy of the sst bullet is one hole, maybe slightly larger than the diameter of the bullet. But that tends to happen when multiple shots pass threw the same hole taking some of the 'fuz' from around the bullet hole. I had one 162 7mm sst bust both shoulders of a 200 lb black bear 20-ish yards away leaving the muzzle a little over 2800 fps with my .280. At the shot, the bear just folded and rolled down into the creek. I found the bullet under the hide on the opposite side but instead of a lead core in the jacket, it was bone. The lead core and some scapula traded places. Yep, destruction was vast but a bear that close unexpectedly was not planed and the hyper-expanding bullet did very well. Interesting that SSTs could be setting bench rest championship accuracy records. I suspect they are cheaper than match bullets. I"ll remember that if I ever get back to competition. RE match target bullets. I've never seen one pencil through, pencil in yes, but every last animal we've ever shot with a match bullet has died(save for the two I thought I hit but ended up missing in the above post) I'll never hesitate if thats all that happened to be handy. In fact I carry 75 bthps in the AR mags here, since I"ve got thousands loaded, and they've shot everything from deer, to pigs, javelina, coyotes etc... without a single failure. Granted in 223 I've not, using those bullets, shot much past about 300 yards or so on game.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 347
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 347 |
i 'm looking for depleted uranium myself
vires,fortitudo,vigilantia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807 |
This topic is yet another example of why the internet and forums like this one have become more interesting than the magazines and books which is all we had before.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008
Campfire Savant
|
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,008 |
Nosler or Barnes, Sierras are great too!
|
|
|
|
|
569 members (257 mag, 10Glocks, 222Sako, 163bc, 16Racing, 1badf350, 61 invisible),
2,529
guests, and
1,322
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,674
Posts18,456,109
Members73,909
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://s540.photobucket.com/user/steveberrett/media/451C8D53-FC52-42D9-BDF4-1C0F2889F347_zps3fr5ycrz.jpg.html)
