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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So a bullet rises above boreline after it leaves the muzzle? NO -- the scope is pointed down, so you are pointing the barrel up when you shoot in relation to the sight plane. Think before you ask these things ! I ain't the one not thinking. Time for a drink, ain't gonna get any better... lol the scary thing is - In gun smithing school, they taught us that a bore is never straight when it's compared to how the barrel is oriented, then demonstrated it on the lathe by putting a guide rod in it and spinning it. THEN they told us the best smith practice is to mount the barrel indexed in a way that the bore as it leaves the rifle is pointing UP !!! I [bleep] you not ! So ... considering we're really talking about bore alignment - nope, it goes straight. BUT the bore is often angled up as it leaves the barrel. Not to mention the bore to sight plane converge at the target so if your sighting in in over 200 yards the bore is pointing up to counter the 1.5" between the bore line and the sight line. So - Yeah
Last edited by Spotshooter; 01/18/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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He was a decent instructor but didn't know diddly about rifles. Have to mitigate that by adding that we were in the "shotgun only" zone of NY, rifles for deer are only allowed in the northern half of the state. (or were in 1988 when I took the course) Not quite. Rifles were legal in the Catskills {Southern part of the state} in 1988 too. Shotgun zone was across central and Western NY.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Tune in next week as we attempt to "Converse with Counter Jockeys."
$$$ TRUMP AT THE PUMP 2024 $$$
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Posts: 37,035
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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I took my daughter to one of the NY hunter education classes last weekend. We were there for about 14 hours total. There was homework that had to be completed before staring the class. We spent 2 - 3 hours completing it. Daughter scored 98 on her test and was irritated that she missed a question. Some observations: -There is now one website used to register for every class statewide. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7860.html -The classes fill up very fast but I learned from my daughter's instructor that there are always no-shows and the instructors will take walk-ins if the prospective student has completed the homework. -13 of the 32 students in the class were female. - Only about 1/3 of the class were under the age of 20. The oldest seemed to be in his '70s. -Daughter had to load and fire two rounds from a 20 gauge. They had her use a beak open single shot that had no recoil pad. She didn't appreciate the recoil. We were taught some interesting stuff: -The flight path of a bullet can be described as its "projectory". - A bullet rises out of the muzzle before starting to come back down.  - Nine out of 10 times a deer that has been shot will circle back to the hunter to see what all the ruckus was about. Usually they will do this in a counter clockwise direction. -The instructor held up a Butt-Out tool and said. "A butt-plug is very useful in field dressing a deer". He kept going, twice more referring to a butt plug. I was trying hard not to LOL. I had to put my face down on the table to stifle the giggles. I'm glad the I was finally able to get my daughter into a class. She is an athlete and sports have always been her priority. We are looking forward to the youth hunt next October. Bet those guys work behind the counter at a local gun store in the "off season" when they're not "educating" young hunters...  Seems to be about the level of "expertise" at a typical LGS... DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A girl friend took my daughter to her class.
Then They could both get them.
Ex Navy Seal.
Only 2 students
Said he would take as long as was needed.
Showed all types of firearms.
Was great.
Southern Calif 25 years ago.
Free.
Don was great.
Last edited by 257_X_50; 01/18/17.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Rising bullet only works out of a 270.
Thank you,
W. Bill
I'd rather die in a BAD gunfight than a GOOD nursing home.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sounds like that guy knew his stuff, in contrast to the OP's "experts"..
DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I took my daughter to one of the NY hunter education classes last weekend. We were there for about 14 hours total. There was homework that had to be completed before staring the class. We spent 2 - 3 hours completing it. Daughter scored 98 on her test and was irritated that she missed a question. Some observations: -There is now one website used to register for every class statewide. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7860.html -The classes fill up very fast but I learned from my daughter's instructor that there are always no-shows and the instructors will take walk-ins if the prospective student has completed the homework. What surprises me is that the socialist republic of New York allows such a class! -13 of the 32 students in the class were female. - Only about 1/3 of the class were under the age of 20. The oldest seemed to be in his '70s. -Daughter had to load and fire two rounds from a 20 gauge. They had her use a beak open single shot that had no recoil pad. She didn't appreciate the recoil. We were taught some interesting stuff: -The flight path of a bullet can be described as its "projectory". - A bullet rises out of the muzzle before starting to come back down. - Nine out of 10 times a deer that has been shot will circle back to the hunter to see what all the ruckus was about. Usually they will do this in a counter clockwise direction. -The instructor held up a Butt-Out tool and said. "A butt-plug is very useful in field dressing a deer". He kept going, twice more referring to a butt plug. I was trying hard not to LOL. I had to put my face down on the table to stifle the giggles. I'm glad the I was finally able to get my daughter into a class. She is an athlete and sports have always been her priority. We are looking forward to the youth hunt next October. I'm surprised the Socialist Republic of NY had such a Class!
Last edited by lightning; 01/18/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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they are idiots for not at least having a pad on that 20gauge single shot. I'd agree with that. When we do our range sessions, the kids do a 20 gauge pump (padded) at clays, 50 cal muzzleloader at paper, a 10/22 at paper, and a 223 at water filled milk jugs. They have to shoot at least one firearm and can opt out of one or more arms if they think it's too much. We could actually get by with a pellet rifle or BB gun, as is the case with some city classes that have no ranges available. I wish we had a 410 as opposed to a 20. I can look at our paper targets after a class and tell you which group of kids started out with the shotgun. It's too much for some of those little 80 pounders and half of them have their eyes closed and flinch horribly if their first session was behind that shotgun. Another issue we see frequently is left eye dominant kids that have been incorrectly started as right handers. If one is a parent out there, do asses eye dominance before ones child is even introduced to a BB gun. There are several different tests one can go though, but the easiest is to just hand a kid a scope, range finder, or camera with no instructions and see which eye they innately go to. Been doing classes for just over 25 seasons. It is really fun to see some of them turn on. I must say, however, that young ladies are more attuned to accepting instructions, and they're typically much better shots. Hand the 10/22 to young male, and his goal is rapid fire. Hand it to a young lady, and she tries to do a bull's eye each time.
Last edited by 1minute; 01/18/17.
1Minute
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my 270 shoots flat out to 700 yards. then it goes into heat seeking mode. and thats with the corelokt 130's. them fancy $30/box rounds are satellite guided. and thats no schit. i heard it at my LGS so i know its true.
My diploma is a DD214
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Regular
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The trend now is less hours. I have taught Hunter Ed since 98 in CA, VA and now NC. We started at 10 hours with range time, then no range 10 hrs and now it is 6 hrs with online pre course, some cut to 6 hrs and took nothing out and the instructors are forced to "teach the test". Some states have complete online courses with a 2 hr firearms demo and test.
It truly is all over the map on the courses but they are trying to work towards a standard. VA requires Hunter Ed instructors to go thru a 2 1/2 day certification course with 14 additional courses to follow in different aspects of hunting such as survival, muzzleloaders, trapping etc. Those follow on training days are semi-annually as a minimum. Other states have no training requirements for instructors. A lot of states are looking at the VA model.
Part of the problem is the area coordinator in some cases is alone and has to cover 15 counties to try and monitor courses and instructors.
I have seen some very good instructors and some that do not know anything.
Last edited by BountyHunter; 01/18/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So, once again, a bullet DOES NOT rise after it leaves the bore.
Correct...it rises above the line of sight, not bore line. But to the OP...I have heard sillier things from the mouths of supposedly 'professional' shooters. My personal favourite being the fellow that had to stop shooting 'roos with a .243 because it was still rising at 400 yards and didn't start dropping 'til 700...but wait for it, he sights in at 100 yards (actually 50 yards, as I have watched him) And if you want to hear some seriously cringe-worthy tales then chat with those in the military or coppers, occasionally you strike one that is switched on but most are so ill-informed that you simply won't believe the stupidity. You are referring, of course, to the military and coppers of your own insignificant country. mike r Yes, which must be the reason you lot keep getting us involved every time you step outside. Can't you just forget to ring us next time.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I mean seriously, we only have around 30,000 full time personnel and around 17,000 weekend warriors in a country of near 24,000 000 so we can't be of that much use.
What, are you scared of the dark or something
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Regular
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I've come to believe there are anti hunter implications in the hunter safety program in NY. Safety education does not require that many hours over multiple days. Youngsters simply don't have the attention span.
Much of the BS mentioned are the result of instructors struggling to fill the required hours.
I have attended/participated in these things going back to 1965 or 66.
Here in NY, there is an equally bloated additional course required for an archery license. New for this year, a $30 charge.
In summary, no substitute for a little focused education plus some mentored real world experience and a little common sense.
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years.
It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,270 |
I've come to believe there are anti hunter implications in the hunter safety program in NY. Safety education does not require that many hours over multiple days. Youngsters simply don't have the attention span.
Much of the BS mentioned are the result of instructors struggling to fill the required hours.
I have attended/participated in these things going back to 1965 or 66.
Here in NY, there is an equally bloated additional course required for an archery license. New for this year, a $30 charge.
In summary, no substitute for a little focused education plus some mentored real world experience and a little common sense. I completely agree with this. I believe that the safety aspects of the sport could be taught and taught well in 7 - 8 hours, bowhunting included. An 11 year old doesn't need to know about the Pittman Robertson Act!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've come to believe there are anti hunter implications in the hunter safety program in NY. Safety education does not require that many hours over multiple days. Youngsters simply don't have the attention span.
Much of the BS mentioned are the result of instructors struggling to fill the required hours.
I have attended/participated in these things going back to 1965 or 66.
Here in NY, there is an equally bloated additional course required for an archery license. New for this year, a $30 charge.
In summary, no substitute for a little focused education plus some mentored real world experience and a little common sense. Thats why its hunter education in TX, not simply hunter safety. I"ve always thought ANY education is much better if you know background and history involved, to a small extent anyway, rather just just know how... because someone told you so.... comment RE pittman robertson.. yeah its not safety, but its protection/argument... someone jumps on you, you have the knowledge to say we pay our own way, and not just for animals conservation taht we hunt, but many we don't hunt... Well rounded is a good thing, IMHO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I mean seriously, we only have around 30,000 full time personnel and around 17,000 weekend warriors in a country of near 24,000 000 so we can't be of that much use.
What, are you scared of the dark or something
Actually yours are included at your country's request so that they can gain experience from a professional military. No one would notice if they were absent. Not unlike yourself. mike r
Last edited by lvmiker; 01/19/17.
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
I mean seriously, we only have around 30,000 full time personnel and around 17,000 weekend warriors in a country of near 24,000 000 so we can't be of that much use.
What, are you scared of the dark or something
Actually yours are included at your country's request so that they can gain experience from a professional military. No one would notice if they were absent. Not unlike yourself. mike r Have it your way if you like.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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