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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,735
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If a citizen with a carry permit had shot Jerry under the same circumstances he would face charges. A Prosecuter would not buy his claim of fearing for his life.
He might beat the charge but he would be out a bunch in legal fees. Not similar scenarios. The citizen has the ability and legal right to retreat and call the cops. The cops do not have the ability to walk away. However if Jerry was approaching the citizen with a knife and the citizen had no ability to retreat, then that changes the outcome.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bigwhoop.
I've done it. Knives and guns. Coulda killed on three different occasions and been legally justified. Didn't have to. Instinct and discretion.
These cops did what they did. They aren't heroes here. Maybe they have been. Maybe they will be. But here, they weren't.
That's just me.
I talked two out of knives myself. Bottom line is that cops are not trained to disarm with a baton or stick. The cops are not heroes here in the traditional sense. Some will always second guess their action. One may quit, one may start drinking, one may lose his family - there are no winners. It is what it is. Problem is when people are quick to second guess when they have no clue. An even bigger problem is when people pretend to be experts...when they aren't.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
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Your clue is somewhat meaningless when cops are trained to react to scenarios based on their training, department policy, state law and their county attorney.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,270 |
They didn't want to NOT kill Jerry enough, bottom line. As has been pointed out by lots of the posters here, they weren't out of options. Nobody will touch those though.
They shot their wad from too far away when they tazed him, twice. How stupid is that? It's not like this was an ambush and they couldn't keep up with the changing events. Could it be any slower for those cops to follow along?
All in all, ridiculous. Wouldn't want a cops job but this one is a no brainer.
Last edited by Fireball2; 01/19/17.
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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They didn't want to NOT kill Jerry enough, bottom line. True enough, I guess. If I had been there with a few trusted co-workers, I would have just said "Let's go...it'll be alright". You can always lie later.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
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They didn't want to NOT kill Jerry enough, bottom line. As has been pointed out by lots of the posters here, they weren't out of options. Nobody will touch those though.
They shot their wad from too far away when they tazed him, twice. How stupid is that? It's not like this was an ambush and they couldn't keep up with the changing events. Could it be any slower for those cops to follow along?
All in all, ridiculous. Wouldn't want a cops job but this one is a no brainer. Keep typing and digging. Everybody has the answers after its over with. Remember next time, don't call 911 - handle it yourself.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,270
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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next time, don't call 911 - handle it yourself.
I have more than once. No one died. Pure luck I guess since I'm not "trained". If I had been no one would have gotten within 21' of me alive. LOL.
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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"Lol"...you can say that again.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
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Haven't seen an answer when I first asked, so I'll ask again.
Are beanbag rounds used for this type of encounter or are they reserved to disperse crowds and other non-threatening types of situations. What's the SOP on those? Officer discretion and availability? I'm not aware of any agency that issues "beanbag rounds to patrolmen. we had them, along with a dedicated less lethal shotgun in the office, in 15 years I think they were used once
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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If a citizen with a carry permit had shot Jerry under the same circumstances he would face charges. A Prosecuter would not buy his claim of fearing for his life.
He might beat the charge but he would be out a bunch in legal fees. Maybe in Texas. Here, if I were in that situation w/ the perp on film I wouldn't expect to be charged. If it became legally necessary to make a statement or answer questions , then I would engage my attorney. mike r My point is that I don't believe the two cops were actually in fear for their life from this old drunk guy. If they really were, then that's a scary thought for people who depend on cops for their safety. I'm not saying they shouldnt have shot him, just that they were not in fear for their lives.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Pretty hard to evade the drunk that's barely walking when you are surrounded by open space.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Pretty hard to evade the drunk that's barely walking when you are surrounded by open space. Evading the drunk wasn't the issue. Lot of geniuses here that don't realize what reality is. I suggest you folks become members of "citizen review boards" or local advisory committees if you feel you have a better grasp of ethics, tactics and the law.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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At that distance I didn't see a threat. That's nuts.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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Pretty hard to evade the drunk that's barely walking when you are surrounded by open space. Evading the drunk wasn't the issue. Lot of geniuses here that don't realize what reality is. I suggest you folks become members of "citizen review boards" or local advisory committees if you feel you have a better grasp of ethics, tactics and the law. Most of us agree with Jims post.... we want nothing to do with cops. Your reality seems to be:"Obey any order from any cop instantly or he will shoot you."
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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He wasn't black nor driving a pickup..... what's to fear?
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The drunk is staggering toward them SLOWLY for like 1.5 minutes but those last 8 tiny steps changes it all? They're in the goddammed open. IMO, that is stupid to think that it is not relevant. He'd be easily evaded. Lot's of options besides killing him at that moment. Legal? Sure. Good? Not a bit. Shoot him again after he's been down for nine seconds? Yah, that was a good call.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
It's pretty dumb to second guess things like this, but having BTDT many times, I can tell you how I would have done it. "Jerry, you got three choices. Hospital, jail or the morgue. Your choice."
...and never doubt this. It was his choice.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,534 |
I am not a trained police officer, but why does every police shooting involve many shots all in the torso. Jerry was an old drunk barely standing on his own. I will paraphrase Ron White , Jerry might have been told to drop the knife but not the ability to do so. Just because he is not able to understand instructions, he should be killed. Does anyone remember the video of the guy sitting with a gun in his hand and some cop sniper shot it out of his hand....
I think old Jerry was close enough for someone of limited abilities to hit an arm , leg or something. It's one thing the cops shot him, its another they need a 6 shells to make 4 hits in close range......Do cops practice with their carry guns anymore.
Like I said, I am not a trained LEO , but I would think I could hit Jerry with one shot where he was fully aware he needed to drop the knife and start listening to instructions. You may be on to something. How cool would it be to start shooting at some doods hand from 40 yards away, with a handgun, as he approached? Maybe even cooler than bowling pins... Of course, we'd have to get rid of that "fear" bullshit. I am not saying its always possible. But when LEO do decide to shoot, they seem to shoot a lot of shells and don't hit much. If they tased him 3 times the were pretty close as tasers are not super accurate and short ranged. They then fired 6 or so shells and had 4 torso hits. Where did the pass-throughs and misses go? Into the trailer. Lucky they only hauled one body off. If you can hit someone 3 times with a taser, then you should be able to shoot one shell and hit a large NON vital part of a person. I could believe the paperwork on a wounded perp being worse then a dead perp. Getting rid of fear is impossible. But with good training ,fear can be mastered. With 3 officers present, they have the ability to have one negotiate, one to hold a forceful presence and one to close the back door. These guys tried the taser out, no luck, then Bang, Bang, bang etc.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
I am not saying its always possible. But when LEO do decide to shoot, they seem to shoot a lot of shells and don't hit much. If they tased him 3 times the were pretty close as tasers are not super accurate and short ranged. They then fired 6 or so shells and had 4 torso hits. Where did the pass-throughs and misses go? Into the trailer. Lucky they only hauled one body off. If you can hit someone 3 times with a taser, then you should be able to shoot one shell and hit a large NON vital part of a person. I could believe the paperwork on a wounded perp being worse then a dead perp.
Getting rid of fear is impossible. But with good training ,fear can be mastered.
With 3 officers present, they have the ability to have one negotiate, one to hold a forceful presence and one to close the back door. These guys tried the taser out, no luck, then Bang, Bang, bang etc. What can I say? We can't shoot.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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