OK, I can't seem to find the informative thread where folks gave their opinion on the pluses and minuses of how you release a slide to chamber up. I do remember someone saying that a slingshot release caused a misfire. Also some good info in there about "riding" the slide forward.
Can someone tell me where that thread is or repeat what was said about releasing the slide to chamber up? Thanks all.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
I dont know, but do slingshot when I'm running a bunch of mags TRYING to be quick and stay on target.
The only AD I've ever had was with a slide release BOOM on a custom 1911 45 ACP I bought that was later found to be loaded with soft titanium race parts.
The "Old School" train of thought was that in "games" it's quicker to use the slide release after ramming home a mag. In the "street" scenario, it was felt the "tacky-psyche" effect of the nervous system in a life-or-death situation, would make fine motor skills difficult. So, it was taught that the support hand should slingshot the slide, but using the majority of the hand and not just the thumb and forefinger. Those of use who played the games and also worked the streets, tended to use the slingshot method exclusively to avoid mental confusion in the event a real life scenario played out.
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
The "Old School" train of thought was that in "games" it's quicker to use the slide release after ramming home a mag. In the "street" scenario, it was felt the "tacky-psyche" effect of the nervous system in a life-or-death situation, would make fine motor skills difficult. So, it was taught that the support hand should slingshot the slide, but using the majority of the hand and not just the thumb and forefinger. Those of use who played the games and also worked the streets, tended to use the slingshot method exclusively to avoid mental confusion in the event a real life scenario played out.
Under the stress of being shot at, I have never lost the fine motor skills that so many talk about. When I read such stuff, the first thing that comes to mind, is people who are poorly trained, and not handling stress well.
If you actually have to think about something as simple as a basic reload, then you have not been training hard enough or frequently enough.
Reloads should be at the level of unconscious competence.
As far as I am concerned "Tachypsychia effect" is an indicator of the poorly trained, or people who are in the wrong line of work.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
I guess I started shooting semi-autos during the old school days, so I always have used the slide release, except with my Glock 30SF. That release is difficult, so I use the slingshot with that one. I don't really think of hitting the release with the thumb as a fine motor skill. The slide release is much quicker, and I do not recall getting either an empty chamber or a jam after using it.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Slide release for me. I've done it that way for so many years it's fast and smooth. I've tried the slingshot and the herky-jerky gymnastics seemed much slower for me to get my two handed firing grip and get the front sight back on target.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I guess I started shooting semi-autos during the old school days, so I always have used the slide release, except with my Glock 30SF. That release is difficult, so I use the slingshot with that one. I don't really think of hitting the release with the thumb as a fine motor skill. The slide release is much quicker, and I do not recall getting either an empty chamber or a jam after using it.
I have noted the same thing with standard Glock slide releases, and have replaced most with the slightly extended factory version.
Frankly I see it as no big deal to use either method. Just get the gun back in action!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
The "Old School" train of thought was that in "games" it's quicker to use the slide release after ramming home a mag. In the "street" scenario, it was felt the "tacky-psyche" effect of the nervous system in a life-or-death situation, would make fine motor skills difficult. So, it was taught that the support hand should slingshot the slide, but using the majority of the hand and not just the thumb and forefinger. Those of use who played the games and also worked the streets, tended to use the slingshot method exclusively to avoid mental confusion in the event a real life scenario played out.
Under the stress of being shot at, I have never lost the fine motor skills that so many talk about. When I read such stuff, the first thing that comes to mind, is people who are poorly trained, and not handling stress well.
If you actually have to think about something as simple as a basic reload, then you have not been training hard enough or frequently enough.
Reloads should be at the level of unconscious competence.
As far as I am concerned "Tachypsychia effect" is an indicator of the poorly trained, or people who are in the wrong line of work.
It doesn't really matter what you "think." It was a question of what was "trained" in many places. I have the luxury of having been shot at when I was carrying a revolver or an M-16, so I never had to worry about the slide release of a semi-auto pistol.
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
Like Jim I can do it either way but mostly slide release. If I am shooting bare handed and have a FTF I roll the pistol to the right and sling shot to hopefully clear and chamber a viable round.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
I would like to preface my response by stating I don't give two flying fugks what method anybody uses. I've seen many shooters utilize both techniques quickly and effectively.
However...
Shooting IS a fine motor skill. You can't eliminate fine motor skill and still shoot effectively. It is unnatural to view a front sight when you're trying to throw a ball. It's not natural to allow something to impact your body without flinching. It's not natural to squeeze a trigger without interrupting your sight picture. I say this a again. Shooting is a fine motor skill.
The notion of using the slingshot has always been a head scratcher for me. What is the intent of the slide release? Decoration? Or to release the slide? If you don't have the dexterity to hit the slide release with your thumb, you don't have the dexterity to thumb your own ass. Meaning, you're an idiot so please remove yourself from the firing line.
Do we "slingshot" the carrying handle on an AR during reloads and speed drills?? No. We hit the fugjking bolt release. What is the difference? Nothing.
And to answer more than honestly, I rarely have to use the slide release because when I re-charge a pistol from slide lock, the slide invariably goes home. The only exception I can think of would be some 1911's, but I consider those to be a modern day POS so never gave it much consideration.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Even though the Glock 17 slide release is low profile, I've never had an issue in a fair amount of serious training.
To me it's very fast. As my right hand is seating the magazine it is also transitioning into the shooting grip, while I swipe down on the slide release with the side of my trigger finger. It's fast and fluid.
Frankly I see it as no big deal to use either method. Just get the gun back in action!
This.
Most of my life, I practiced using the slide release, but in the last few years I primarily use my left hand (all fingers and thumb) over the top of the slide like this:
Occasionally, I automatically slip into the use of the slide release, without thinking about it. This is with Glocks, and I don't find the factory slide release to be difficult to use.
I started studying what top trainers were advising lately. I figure they know better than I do on such matters.
The theory is that it's a more sure method under stress, but I see your point on that, thus I'm not overly concerned that I occasionally slip back into using the slide release. It would be the only choice, if you were shot in the left arm or hand.
If I shoot to slide lock I reload and hit the slide release as I'm pushing the gun back on target. Old habit, but it works for me.
This; it's just ingrained for me.
FWIW, I've seen people have problems when trying to slingshot, mainly because they don't always just let the slide slam home; never saw a problem with dropping a slide release & a failure to slide home with a round.
I would like to preface my response by stating I don't give two flying fugks what method anybody uses. I've seen many shooters utilize both techniques quickly and effectively.
However...
Shooting IS a fine motor skill. You can't eliminate fine motor skill and still shoot effectively. It is unnatural to view a front sight when you're trying to throw a ball. It's not natural to allow something to impact your body without flinching. It's not natural to squeeze a trigger without interrupting your sight picture. I say this a again. Shooting is a fine motor skill.
The notion of using the slingshot has always been a head scratcher for me. What is the intent of the slide release? Decoration? Or to release the slide? If you don't have the dexterity to hit the slide release with your thumb, you don't have the dexterity to thumb your own ass. Meaning, you're an idiot so please remove yourself from the firing line.
Do we "slingshot" the carrying handle on an AR during reloads and speed drills?? No. We hit the fugjking bolt release. What is the difference? Nothing.
And to answer more than honestly, I rarely have to use the slide release because when I re-charge a pistol from slide lock, the slide invariably goes home. The only exception I can think of would be some 1911's, but I consider those to be a modern day POS so never gave it much consideration.
Travis
Well, he's spoken. We can all go home now. It's settled science.
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
I started studying what top trainers were advising lately. I figure they know better than I do on such matters.
They don't.
Take that FWIW.
Dave
+1 on that......
Been shooting combat pistol courses since the early 1970s before IPSC was formed. Back then there were only a few of semis that were being used...1911s, Browning HPs and S&W DA semis... No one I remember used slingshot until the 1990s. It wasn't until SIGs and Glocks became popular that slingshot became in more common use and some shooting academies starting teaching it mainly because SIGs and Glocks don't have the most user friendly slide release in both size and location. Because LE started using more and more SIGs and Glocks it then spilled into their training also. Almost all the shooters I see today at IDPA matches use slingshot.
I'm old school and use the slide release almost exclusively. When "speed loading" my strong hand stays in the shooting position and as the support hand slams the magazine home it then rolls into position and the left thumb hits the slide release...it is a lot faster than slamming the mag home, grabbing the slide with the support hand, pull back and then have to relocate the support hand to the firing position...
One style of gun I've observed that should not be used slingshot are those with a hammer-drop safety like a Beretta 92 and S&W Gen I,II,III autos. I've seen several students grab the slide, yank back, have the slide drop and pull the trigger only to have nothing happen because they activated the hammer-drop into the safety position. Never saw it happen during practice but have several times during scenario shoots when the stress is way up....
Have also seen those who only use slingshot do all sorts of gyrations trying to get the slide forward during one handed exercises. Catching the rear sight on the pocket is the most used one. When I point out that all they had to do is use the slide release with their thumb or triggerfinger they get that "oh yea" look on their face... It's what happens when you never use it...you forget that it is there...
To me it is important to know all of them as your favorite may not be most advantageous when most needed...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
There are good trainers and bad trainers. I've been to Gunsight, LFI, and DTI (Farnam) classes; all 3 taught the slingshot method. I used the slingshot method until I started competing and that's when I started using the slide stop.
The "theory" of why they don't teach the slide stop thing is two fold...
1 - In a gun fight you'll be under the tachy-psych effect (fight or flight) and you lose fine motor coordination, and thus, you may not be able to hit the slide stop.
2 - If you run the gun dry, slam in a new mag and hit the slide stop in one very quick motion, you could release the slide before the mag is fully seated and end up not chambering a round. Now at IPSC matches, I cant count how many times I've seen exactly that happen; I did it myself a couple of times when I first started using the slide stop. I fixed the problem by only dropping the slide stop with the thumb of my left hand, rather than using my right hand thumb. Since my left hand has to seat the magazine, there's no threat of getting the timing off.
Since I stopped competing, I have gone back to the slingshot method.
I always use the sling shot method for a couple different reasons.
It's easier for me grab the slide than to hit the slide release while keeping a good grip on the pistol.
If you own different types of pistols it works with all of them no matter where the slide release is located.
I read this from Clint smith I believe. If you have a minimum spec chamber( that's already dirty) and your trying to load a maximum spec cartridge the slide will need the extra inertia to go into battery.
2 - If you run the gun dry, slam in a new mag and hit the slide stop in one very quick motion, you could release the slide before the mag is fully seated and end up not chambering a round.
Maybe if your eyes are crossed, and your drool is hitting the floor.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I always use the sling shot method for a couple different reasons.
It's easier for me grab the slide than to hit the slide release while keeping a good grip on the pistol.
If you own different types of pistols it works with all of them no matter where the slide release is located.
I read this from Clint smith I believe. If you have a minimum spec chamber( that's already dirty) and your trying to load a maximum spec cartridge the slide will need the extra inertia to go into battery.
Dink
That actually makes a lot of sense.
Except the extra inertia/dirty chamber part.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
TI used the slingshot method until I started competing and that's when I started using the slide stop.
Since I stopped competing, I have gone back to the slingshot method.
When I had to reload as efficiently as possible you used the slide stop. When you weren't forced to reload as efficiently as possible you used the slingshot technique.
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
Dink
I can't even Imagine how it would ever make a difference. Lock the slide back, then pull it all the way to the rear, then ask yourself if THAT much spring compression is going to make a difference.
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
Dink
Have YOU ever found fault in using the slide release?
Be honest.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
Dink
Have YOU ever found fault in using the slide release?
Be honest.
Dave
Only when trying to shoot a sig pistol fast. I hit the decocker instead. It's not really a issue but it burns time.
The only other thing is some people don't have the hand strength to operate the slide release (elderly, some women and probably some democrats).
I slingshot because that was how I was taught when I was first taught to shoot shoot semi-autos. I was told it'd wear out the slide stop to use the slide release. Wether that is bullshite or fact is moot.
But, it works on any pistol. I've messed around with the slide release and (for me) it IS faster. But it's retraining muscle habits, and I haven't yet mastered it. And the slide slide release isn't in the exact same spot on all the pistols I shoot, let alone all the ones out there you may end up using.
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
Dink
Have YOU ever found fault in using the slide release?
Be honest.
Dave
Only when trying to shoot a sig pistol fast. I hit the decocker instead. It's not really a issue but it burns time.
The only other thing is some people don't have the hand strength to operate the slide release (elderly, some women and probably some democrats).
Dink
Get real.
That's a lack of familiarity and nothing else.
Have YOU ever had an issue hitting the slide release on YOUR handgun?
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I slingshot because that was how I was taught when I was first taught to shoot shoot semi-autos. I was told it'd wear out the slide stop to use the slide release. Wether that is bullshite or fact is moot.
But, it works on any pistol. I've messed around with the slide release and (for me) it IS faster. But it's retraining muscle habits, and I haven't yet mastered it. And the slide slide release isn't in the exact same spot on all the pistols I shoot, let alone all the ones out there you may end up using.
Holy retard...
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I read that along time ago but have never looked up the cartridge/chamber dimensions to see how much crud would have to be built up in the chamber to cause problems.
Dink
Have YOU ever found fault in using the slide release?
Be honest.
Dave
Only when trying to shoot a sig pistol fast. I hit the decocker instead. It's not really a issue but it burns time.
The only other thing is some people don't have the hand strength to operate the slide release (elderly, some women and probably some democrats).
Dink
Get real.
That's a lack of familiarity and nothing else.
Have YOU ever had an issue hitting the slide release on YOUR handgun?
Dave
No, I can find the slide release and press it down. I have not tried to hit one in 20 years though.
I've seen too many people perform both, very efficiently, and using the slide stop is ALWAYS faster.
80% of the time, it works.
Every time.
Clark
Men, I'm no pistolero, but try to practice in purposefully adverse conditions, super cold fingers, rain, sweat, work gloves, weak side, etc, the slide releases on Glocks and my Sig 226 are next to non-existent, I can always give the slide a hard yank.
With my AR's I do bang the slide release with the palm of my hand just in front of my wrist, have never been to Thunder Ranch etc.
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
How many of you regularly (or seldom) carry different brands of handguns for SD--assuming you're not LEO and prefer something other than your issue?
I'm not talking throwing a J frame or LCR in the pocket; I mean you switch up between various semi-autos as your CCW.
While I have different brands, once I settled on the Glock as my CCW I set them all up the same (sights, release, trigger kits, etc) just so I would have maximum familiarity. I also practice with them far more than my other autos and only carry the Glocks for SD so I don't need to worry about a 'different manual of arms' when/if the fan and feces ever collide....
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
How many of you regularly (or seldom) carry different brands of handguns for SD--assuming you're not LEO and prefer something other than your issue?
I'm not talking throwing a J frame or LCR in the pocket; I mean you switch up between various semi-autos as your CCW.
While I have different brands, once I settled on the Glock as my CCW I set them all up the same (sights, release, trigger kits, etc) just so I would have maximum familiarity. I also practice with them far more than my other autos and only carry the Glocks for SD so I don't need to worry about a 'different manual of arms' when/if the fan and feces ever collide....
That's definitely me. Glock 17, 19 or 43 for carry. Those are mainly what get shot, too. In the limited range time I manage to arrange for myself, it's hard to justify not shooting the guns that are most likely to matter when the chips are down, so lots of S&W and Colt revolver safe queens now, not to mention 1911s, High Powers, etc..
Talking amongst a number of combat vets, who are routinely training to hone those skills, in the capacity of professional soldiers and/or law enforcement, I will hear some say "slingshot", but it is a given amongst them, that this term does not describe the use of the thumb and finger to pull against the rear of the slide, like a slingshot. To eliminate confusion, you will now hear this poor technique of thumb and finger as being called slingshot, as that is what it mirrors, with the correct overhand technique being described as a power stroke, same as used to clear a malfunction.
Why the slingshot is bad and power stroke is good? Under stress, it is easy to ride the slide home w/ slingshot, not so w/ power stroke. The power stroke uses large muscle groups and gross motor skills. Such power stroke is also the same technique used to clear a malfunction.
Use of the slide lock is indeed a bit faster, but it does carry baggage in combat. It is a weaker technique requiring fine motor skills, and it is a completely different and added technique having no value at clearing a malfunction. Also, it does not maximize slide travel and spring power to aid placing the pistol into battery. Now, the trend is to save the slide lock for timed competition, while saving the power stroke for two way gun fights.
There are some exceptions, such as certain pistol designs can be placed on safe while the slide is quickly worked with a power stroke.
Me personally, I would only consider a combat pistol that could readily be power stroked, either 2-handed, or 1-handed off strong sights. Would not use extended slide lock as it adds risk of engagement with a high straight thumb combat grip.
Last edited by GaryVA; 01/23/17.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
I always used the lever until I made the mistake of buying a pos Ruger MK III. Among its many faults was a slide lever that was guaranteed to ultimately fail if used for its intended purpose. Anyway, it got me in the slingshot habit before I gave up on it and traded it back to the shop that sold it to me.
I have never tried the "Slingshot" method because I always felt that my support hand has enough to do with the next Mag and re-gripping. It seems to me that flipping the slide lock with your thumb is simpler and quicker TBS if you haven't tipped over the Perp with your first mag you probably are a bad shot, so the split second difference if there is one won't mean didley. As for Lefty's, I can see no other choice. I say whatever is comfortable for you is what you should do. Not what some trainer or coach tries to teach you.
Sweet Jesus, until this thread came along I never new it was even a question. I figured they put a slide release on a pistol for a reason, so I've always used it.
A recent poster (GarryVA) has clarified that what I use isn't correctly called the slingshot, but rather the power stroke.
I do that every morning.
And sometimes at lunch...
Clark
are you saying gavyV was not referring to his chosen process of charging a pistol?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I previously used both methods equally. I have been carrying an Ruger LCP lately (doesn't lock the slide after the last round fired) so have been exclusively slingshoting (verb) lately.
The method of clearing a jam (bumping the mag bottom then slingshot) also made me think it would be a good practice to just use one method to charge a gun whether after a jam or inserting a fresh magazine.
"Tap... Rack... Bang!"... is so ingrained in my shooting that if the "TAP" of inserting a fresh mag does not send the slide home my support hand is already moving to "RACK" the slide. Strong hand never leaves its grip position on the pistol.
How many of you regularly (or seldom) carry different brands of handguns for SD--assuming you're not LEO and prefer something other than your issue?
I'm not talking throwing a J frame or LCR in the pocket; I mean you switch up between various semi-autos as your CCW.
While I have different brands, once I settled on the Glock as my CCW I set them all up the same (sights, release, trigger kits, etc) just so I would have maximum familiarity. I also practice with them far more than my other autos and only carry the Glocks for SD so I don't need to worry about a 'different manual of arms' when/if the fan and feces ever collide....
I carry all sorts of different schit.
Just depends on the day.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I'm confused now, am I doing it wrong using the slide release.
It's a slide STOP, not a slide release. LOL. Just kidding. I've heard that said before to people who use the slide release instead of manually racking it.
Wilson is full of crap on this one. I think I'll go with a real gunfighter and follow what he does.
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
Originally Posted by SargeMO
If I shoot to slide lock I reload and hit the slide release as I'm pushing the gun back on target. Old habit, but it works for me.
This is precisely what I do.
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
Under the stress of being shot at, I have never lost the fine motor skills that so many talk about. When I read such stuff, the first thing that comes to mind, is people who are poorly trained, and not handling stress well.
If you actually have to think about something as simple as a basic reload, then you have not been training hard enough or frequently enough.
Reloads should be at the level of unconscious competence.
As far as I am concerned "Tachypsychia effect" is an indicator of the poorly trained, or people who are in the wrong line of work.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I'm confused now, am I doing it wrong using the slide release.
It's a slide STOP, not a slide release. LOL. Just kidding. I've heard that said before to people who use the slide release instead of manually racking it.
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
I've used the slide release ever since I sliced open my hand on the rear blade of a BoMar sight on a 1911 doing a sling-shot. I've noticed no decrease in speed. I just learned to use the slide release and continued doing it. I'll slingshot if the slide-stop doesn't work, or if I need to clear a jam (tap-rack, etc.) but otherwise I use the slide release.
I also do not believe in the whole "stress ruins fine motor skills" mantra. If you are adequately trained to perform a motion--fine or not--you will be able perform it under stress. If you aren't trained, you won't. And if you can't that's not the fault of the movement pattern.
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
You don't have to do it.
Dink
Explain how a "maximum length cartridge" would sit farther back in a magazine, which is the only scenario where moving the slide back would make a difference.
Any "maximum length would have to be at the front end.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
Talking amongst a number of combat vets, who are routinely training to hone those skills, in the capacity of professional soldiers and/or law enforcement, I will hear some say "slingshot", but it is a given amongst them, that this term does not describe the use of the thumb and finger to pull against the rear of the slide, like a slingshot. To eliminate confusion, you will now hear this poor technique of thumb and finger as being called slingshot, as that is what it mirrors, with the correct overhand technique being described as a power stroke, same as used to clear a malfunction.
Why the slingshot is bad and power stroke is good? Under stress, it is easy to ride the slide home w/ slingshot, not so w/ power stroke. The power stroke uses large muscle groups and gross motor skills. Such power stroke is also the same technique used to clear a malfunction.
Use of the slide lock is indeed a bit faster, but it does carry baggage in combat. It is a weaker technique requiring fine motor skills, and it is a completely different and added technique having no value at clearing a malfunction. Also, it does not maximize slide travel and spring power to aid placing the pistol into battery. Now, the trend is to save the slide lock for timed competition, while saving the power stroke for two way gun fights.
There are some exceptions, such as certain pistol designs can be placed on safe while the slide is quickly worked with a power stroke.
Me personally, I would only consider a combat pistol that could readily be power stroked, either 2-handed, or 1-handed off strong sights. Would not use extended slide lock as it adds risk of engagement with a high straight thumb combat grip.
Your life is on the line, so you're going with the slower method? This thinking makes zero sense to me. If my life is on the line speed is definitely needed!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
What extra inertia? From slide lock to the slide fully to the rear is what....1/8" of an inch? Compressing that spring 1/8" of an inch is what makes the difference? Give me a break.
How to release a slide is by far the best litmus test to separate actual shooters from the rest of the pack.
If I remember correctly that extra 1/8 inch also helps if you get a maximum length cartridge.
You don't have to do it.
Dink
Explain how a "maximum length cartridge" would sit farther back in a magazine, which is the only scenario where moving the slide back would make a difference.
Any "maximum length would have to be at the front end.
I didn't write the article.
But if I remember correctly it gives the long cartridge plenty of room as it strips off the mag and hits the feed ramp( in case it slides to one side or the other go up the feed ramp). It also gives the slide plenty of power to overcome any extra drag.
Everyone has had the first round out the magazine not feed properly and end up in a stove pipe. I believe that the slingshot method helps prevent this.
If anyone has a link to what could be considered the proper or correct method for a Lefty to invoke the slide release, I would be grateful.
I consider myself never to old to learn the right way of doing anything.
Thanks, LD
I don't know if this video is the proper or correct way to run a slide release lever for a lefty, but the fellow demonstrating the Ghost bullet forward shape extended release seems to have total control and speed.
I found it while researching my OP question.
Sakoluvr, Thanks for the info. I ordered 2 of the Ghost Bullet Forward slide releases for my 2 Glocks. Look like they work well and everything I could find on them says they do.
dirt, that link to ebay did not work for me. It said I had to be the purchaser. What did you get? Thanks.
Sorry, Sako. I copy and pasted the link out of my email from the seller. I guess it somehow had a hook to My Ebay account.
Here is the direct link to the NDZ Performance page for the 3.5 lb connector. Supposed to take your stock Glock trigger down to a very smooth 3.5 lb pull. For ~ $10 I figured why not try it. Easy enough to remove if I don't like it.
Talking amongst a number of combat vets, who are routinely training to hone those skills, in the capacity of professional soldiers and/or law enforcement, I will hear some say "slingshot", but it is a given amongst them, that this term does not describe the use of the thumb and finger to pull against the rear of the slide, like a slingshot. To eliminate confusion, you will now hear this poor technique of thumb and finger as being called slingshot, as that is what it mirrors, with the correct overhand technique being described as a power stroke, same as used to clear a malfunction.
Why the slingshot is bad and power stroke is good? Under stress, it is easy to ride the slide home w/ slingshot, not so w/ power stroke. The power stroke uses large muscle groups and gross motor skills. Such power stroke is also the same technique used to clear a malfunction.
Use of the slide lock is indeed a bit faster, but it does carry baggage in combat. It is a weaker technique requiring fine motor skills, and it is a completely different and added technique having no value at clearing a malfunction. Also, it does not maximize slide travel and spring power to aid placing the pistol into battery. Now, the trend is to save the slide lock for timed competition, while saving the power stroke for two way gun fights.
There are some exceptions, such as certain pistol designs can be placed on safe while the slide is quickly worked with a power stroke.
Me personally, I would only consider a combat pistol that could readily be power stroked, either 2-handed, or 1-handed off strong sights. Would not use extended slide lock as it adds risk of engagement with a high straight thumb combat grip.
Your life is on the line, so you're going with the slower method? This thinking makes zero sense to me. If my life is on the line speed is definitely needed!
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat. But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
1. Skill level. Right off the bat let's go ahead and address this one. The average 10 year old playing Pee-Wee football is better at football than 99% of soldiers/Marines/police/agents are at shooting. I've worked at a couple of addresses whose duties included teaching and actually measuring the skill level of gun carriers using real standards.
Measuring pure accuracy, drawing, recoil control, target to target transitions, reloading, malfunction clearances and stress tests, etc; if a person does not belong to a national SMU, dedicated mil HR unit, or shoot USPSA/3-Gun/IDPA regularly- they will at best be barely mediocre. Even if they are in one of those organizations, if they don't shoot action competitions the best shooter that I have ever seen was in the high "D" low "C" class range for USPSA..... That ain't "good" nor close.
This isn't talking smack- it's reality. Very few ( like 4-5) organizations have the funding, latitude and institutional knowledge to produce measurably good shooters. Of those that do- EVERY SINGLE ONE uses GM ranked USPSA/3-Gun shooters to teach gun handling and marksmanship techniques.
2. Anything you do with your fingers is a "fine motor skill". The whole "grasping the slide is a gross motor skill" is complete and utter BS. Using the sights, pressing the trigger, hitting the mag release, and using the slide release are ALL the same. The reason that people can't hit the slide release under stress is because they are horribly, woefully untrained.
3. I can't think of an actual top level trainer or shooter that teaches anything other than using the slide release. "Top level trainer" being a world class action competitor and/or member of one of the very top mil/LE organizations that is also a top level competitor. Using an overhand or slingshot technique to reload is MEASURABLY slower. And since it is quite easy to teach someone to use the slides release under stress- they do.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat.
The differences and applicability between the various competitions and sports can not be overstated... So in that vain- what "national level" skill did you achieve and in which venue?
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
Well yes, things do evolve... but not in the way that you've stated. Early in the war there was a huge rift between "combat" and "competition" in most of the military and LE communities. The only places where there wasn't was the very top level orgs as I stated above. As time went one there has been a trickle down effect with even "regular" special units are getting some training with the top guys. As it has went the gap between the shooting techniques the "combat" people are doing and what the "competition" people are doing has narrowed considerably. To the point that in some places USPSA GM's and 3-Gun competitors are running the programs... It makes sense. Shooting is shooting. The gun doesn't know whether it's being aimed at a piece of paper, steel or person- the only difference is the emotion that the shooter brings to the task.
The fastest most efficient techniques are the fastest most efficient techniques. Practice and train them until they are subconscious under stress and then don't worry about it.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
So you understand that one way is better, but choose to use a slower technique- why? Just train the better technique.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Being able to tell when you are at slide lock versus having a malfunction isn't "high speed", that's basic level skill. If a shooter can't tell when his gun has locked back by feel- they're not trained.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
I shot around 14,000 sim rounds personally in 2016, and watched around 200,000 or so get shot by mates and others in training. Once a person has a solid skill level with the gun on the range, it takes about 4-5 focused and structured force on force evolutions to ingrain those skills- i.e. Sights, trigger, reloads.
I agree 100%. Trigger control is a fine motor skill and if you can't do that nothing else matters. Useing a slower method in combat is an idiotic idea.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
1. Skill level. Right off the bat let's go ahead and address this one. The average 10 year old playing Pee-Wee football is better at football than 99% of soldiers/Marines/police/agents are at shooting. I've worked at a couple of addresses whose duties included teaching and actually measuring the skill level of gun carriers using real standards.
Measuring pure accuracy, drawing, recoil control, target to target transitions, reloading, malfunction clearances and stress tests, etc; if a person does not belong to a national SMU, dedicated mil HR unit, or shoot USPSA/3-Gun/IDPA regularly- they will at best be barely mediocre. Even if they are in one of those organizations, if they don't shoot action competitions the best shooter that I have ever seen was in the high "D" low "C" class range for USPSA..... That ain't "good" nor close.
This isn't talking smack- it's reality. Very few ( like 4-5) organizations have the funding, latitude and institutional knowledge to produce measurably good shooters. Of those that do- EVERY SINGLE ONE uses GM ranked USPSA/3-Gun shooters to teach gun handling and marksmanship techniques.
2. Anything you do with your fingers is a "fine motor skill". The whole "grasping the slide is a gross motor skill" is complete and utter BS. Using the sights, pressing the trigger, hitting the mag release, and using the slide release are ALL the same. The reason that people can't hit the slide release under stress is because they are horribly, woefully untrained.
3. I can't think of an actual top level trainer or shooter that teaches anything other than using the slide release. "Top level trainer" being a world class action competitor and/or member of one of the very top mil/LE organizations that is also a top level competitor. Using an overhand or slingshot technique to reload is MEASURABLY slower. And since it is quite easy to teach someone to use the slides release under stress- they do.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
I do so because of experience in combat. I did shoot competition, on a National level at one point, and I did Master the slide technique, for reducing times in competition, and I did carry that technique over, professionally, to use in combat.
The differences and applicability between the various competitions and sports can not be overstated... So in that vain- what "national level" skill did you achieve and in which venue?
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, just like techniques have evolved in clearing rooms, houses, and buildings, so have techniques for handling an Emergency Reload. Because of this, in real life, and in realistic drills, in and out of vehicles, rooms, houses, buildings, etc...I now use ONE technique, to address all administrative, malfunction, and emergency reloads...by using a Power Stroke, both 2-handed, and 1-handed.
Well yes, things do evolve... but not in the way that you've stated. Early in the war there was a huge rift between "combat" and "competition" in most of the military and LE communities. The only places where there wasn't was the very top level orgs as I stated above. As time went one there has been a trickle down effect with even "regular" special units are getting some training with the top guys. As it has went the gap between the shooting techniques the "combat" people are doing and what the "competition" people are doing has narrowed considerably. To the point that in some places USPSA GM's and 3-Gun competitors are running the programs... It makes sense. Shooting is shooting. The gun doesn't know whether it's being aimed at a piece of paper, steel or person- the only difference is the emotion that the shooter brings to the task.
The fastest most efficient techniques are the fastest most efficient techniques. Practice and train them until they are subconscious under stress and then don't worry about it.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
But, when going head to head in a competition for time, I will switch to a slide lock for that particular match. But if being shot at, NO.
So you understand that one way is better, but choose to use a slower technique- why? Just train the better technique.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
I do know some, fairly high speed pros, who still favor a slide lock on their personal combat pistol, but that number seems to be shrinking. But those guys are so in tune with their pistols, they can determine a malfunction in real-time, just from the sound and feel. In addition, it is rare for them to screw up, and find themselves in need of an emergency reload, as they can conduct tactical and speed reloads to avoid the slide locked back emergency.
There is nothing wrong with using the slide lock in combat, just realize, it does carry some baggage.
Being able to tell when you are at slide lock versus having a malfunction isn't "high speed", that's basic level skill. If a shooter can't tell when his gun has locked back by feel- they're not trained.
Originally Posted by GarryVA
]
Also, for those who believe, that their heart rate will not go up, when bullets are flying in their direction, and those same people believe that they will not experience physiological changes as that rate goes up....Well then, I'm willing to wager that I can make you void your bladder with nothing more than a realistic simunition training drill that likely would overload your senses and have you overwhelmed. People screw up simple tasks just from peer pressure of being watched.
I shot around 14,000 sim rounds personally in 2016, and watched around 200,000 or so get shot by mates and others in training. Once a person has a solid skill level with the gun on the range, it takes about 4-5 focused and structured force on force evolutions to ingrain those skills- i.e. Sights, trigger, reloads.
This guy is a GD cyber-bully.
I'm going home.
Dave
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Always thought he seemed to have pretty practical advice for the average person.
Thoughts?
He certainly brings something to the training table, but that video demonstrates that he is selling a product to a wide market of people who carry a wide variety of firearms. So, he standardized on one technique for one size fits all. This is what he said:
Quote
There’s no reason to believe that I will be fighting with my gun.
Oh, OK, how many citizens or police in America wind up fighting with someone else’s gun? If so, how many people in said situations get a gun that is a different make or model with no commonality of platform? If it is a different gun and a different platform, why would there be reason to believe that the ammo in his magazine pouches or the magazines themselves will fit in said gun.
Quote
What I’ve done is load every single pistol on the planet. . .
He never says that a slide lock release is prone to error or less effective or slower. He just uses this technique because it works on every gun on the planet, which makes it easier to teach the thousands of people who pass through his classes each year. In fact, he implicitly concedes that it is slower but discounts that speed is a big deal in reloading during gunfights when he mentions that nobody has a timer during a gunfight.
Before adopting any technique, it is a good idea to figure out the backstory on why it is being taught, and how it fits into one's own needs and capabilities.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
I really enjoy watching Robert Vogel. He is bad ass with his more or less factory Glocks. Here he is going so damn fast it's hard to see how he is releasing his slide (lever)!
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
...Oh, OK, how many citizens or police in America wind up fighting with someone else’s gun? ...
Good point. Excluding LEO's, how many citizens have ended up in a self-defense engagements shooting enough rounds to require a reload? Talking about actual events that have occurred, not theoretical need.
Always thought he seemed to have pretty practical advice for the average person.
Thoughts?
There is so much wrong with that it's sad. No offense to Clint, in the 90's when very, very few knew how to run guns I'm sure what he said was about as good as it got. However it ain't 1992 anymore, there are small groups that have killed more people with carbines and pistols before sunup of a single night than ALL of law enforcement will in a year. Those dudes were trained by Robbie Leathem, The Burner, Todd Jarret, Jeff C., Frank Proctor, etc. because after a few gunfights they realized they needed the best shooters on the planet to teach them how to shot the gun.
It equally applies to civilians- shootings/fights are the only events in the world where the rank amateur and world class face the exact same task. You don't get a break because you are a banker or farmer and not a commando.
So let's just break what he said down-
1) "There's no timer in a gunfight".
Freaking stupid. Of course there is- and the other party has the timer. That's like saying "I've never seen a weight in a gunfight, so I don't care if you're as weak as a 10 year old boy". Again STUPID statement.
2) "Keep the gun between you and the target".
Just what is an empty gun going to do for me here? The thing is a paper weight without bang bangs- reload it as quickly as possible. It isn't a magic talisman- it's a tool. Use it as best as possible.
3) "When it locks back you're going to push forward"
Uhhh. That's called a "flinch" or "anticipation". I.e. You shouldn't be doing that.
You want to see some videos of people that know how to shoot, fight and train others to do the same?
...It equally applies to civilians- shootings/fights are the only events in the world where the rank amateur and world class face the exact same task....
Yes and no. The reasons each is engaging are fundamentally different, and thus the legal standards by which they will be judged afterwards are dramatically different.
A soldier clearing a house in Mosul has a different legal duty and motivation and will be judged by a different legal standard than a person in a self-defense scenario in a mall parking lot. A LEO intervening and emptying a mag is yet again another legal standard, as the LEO will be protected by qualified immunity in most, but not all, states, while the citizen is not.
If the average citizen empties the mag on a G19 in the mall parking lot, then reloads and goes at it again, every single bullet better have a defensible explanation attached to it. That he is a USPSA GM and can shoot and reload really fast is not a defense.
Shoot/don't shoot training is as important as speed and accuracy training, and yet rarely undertaken by most civilians with CHL's.
Good videos, thanks for linking those and your other input. Much appreciated.
How does the gun know that it's a civilian or a military shooter using it? It's a mechanics task, not a legal one.
On your other thoughts, times are different. Having worked with a bunch of local LE and Feds, I would get fired and prosecuted for a bunch of shootings that they get cleared on. If I smoked a villager holding a wallet instead of a gun and tried to explain that it was dark and I was scared/had tunnel vision, auditory exclusion/etc they would hang me. I/we are responsible for every single round fired and misses are unacceptable.
I guarantee you Frank,Kyle and Pat are WAY more concerned with surgical shooting and not hitting the wrong person than civilians, whether LE or not.
And... the reason a person- any person, whether they are CCW holder, police or commando is engaging is because based upon the situation, they need to shoot someone. There may be a difference is getting to the point of shooting, but once the decision has been made to shoot, there is no difference. Saying there is at that point, is either due to ignorance or trying justify crappy training/standards/techniques/etc.
...Oh, OK, how many citizens or police in America wind up fighting with someone else’s gun? ...
Good point. Excluding LEO's, how many citizens have ended up in a self-defense engagements shooting enough rounds to require a reload? Talking about actual events that have occurred, not theoretical need.
How many times a citizens needs a reload is irrelevant, if it happens that you need a reload.
Last edited by jwp475; 02/02/17.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
People are trying to apply emotion to a mechanical act. Reloading an empty gun is a MECHANICAL action, not an emotional event.
Let's try a thought exercise.
We have four robots. One is a USPSA GM competitor. One is a banker with a CCW. One is a Police Officer. One is a high level Special military robot. They are each constrained with their particular laws and rules for shooting someone/something.
1) The competition robot is shooting an array of targets. His gun runs dry and he still has more targets left to shoot...
2) The Banker Robot is attacked by two guys trying to rob him. His gun runs dry and one person is still trying to kill him...
3) The cop robot is trying to stop an active shooter. His gun runs dry and the bad guy is still trying to kill school children...
4) The Special military robot is in Pakistan doing CQB on a kill/capture mission. He has just shot three dudes in two rooms. His gun runs dry and another bad guy runs in...
With each constrained by their own particular environment and situation, do you really believe that they would reload differently? They ALL need to get the gun back in working condition as fast as possible and get back to the task at hand.
what if I count my rounds and eject the magazine for a fresh one before the slide locks back? Instead of postulating a bunch of cerebral "what ifs" just go take a few training classes, if the instructor is worth a flip you will walk out better than you walked in. Not directed at anyone in specific.
Always thought he seemed to have pretty practical advice for the average person.
Thoughts?
Clint always had some strange ideas but he packages them in say-isms that some find witty.
He started the weird "A pistol is to fight your way to a rifle" silliness.
Originally Posted by jimmyp
what if I count my rounds and eject the magazine for a fresh one before the slide locks back? Instead of postulating a bunch of cerebral "what ifs" just go take a few training classes, if the instructor is worth a flip you will walk out better than you walked in. Not directed at anyone in specific.
I don't know of any Top Tier instructor teaching the slingshot slide release.
I have taken classes with Mike Pannone and John "Shrek" McPhee and each taught to use the slide release on both pistols and rifles.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
And... the reason a person- any person, whether they are CCW holder, police or commando is engaging is because based upon the situation, they need to shoot someone. There may be a difference is getting to the point of shooting, but once the decision has been made to shoot, there is no difference. Saying there is at that point, is either due to ignorance or trying justify crappy training/standards/techniques/etc.
Talking about the different legal and community standards by which a soldier, LEO, and a citizen will be judged after the fact - not talking about reloads at all. Not taking issue with your technical comments, paying attention to those.
There will be dramatically different legal and community standards applied to review the conduct of a deployed soldier in a combat zone, as compared to a LEO using lethal force in the line of duty, vs. CHL in a self-defense scenario, vs. citizen on the sidewalk in San Francisco or Boston as the outer edge on the other end of the scale.
Cheyenne,
was just a question of curiosity, no more nor no less.
I agree the slide release wasn't designed to be ignored.
And I agree that if the fine motor skill of manipulating the slide release stymies a shooter he does not have much chance of successfully manipulating the trigger in a stressful situation.
One might posit that shooters who advocate the slingshot slide release will be doing a bunch of slingshoting when SHTF.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Always thought he seemed to have pretty practical advice for the average person.
Thoughts?
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
Always thought he seemed to have pretty practical advice for the average person.
Thoughts?
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
Without going into detail I know a guy that that didn't get to fight with his gun. Rare circumstances I know but I know of one.
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
Last edited by JohnBurns; 02/02/17.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
Without going into detail I know a guy that that didn't get to fight with his gun. Rare circumstances I know but I know of one.
Dink
Do you have ANY reason to believe that if you get into a gunfight tomorrow it'll be with your gun?
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
$40K dogs.....Paintball in Japan..... Well, he convinced me.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
Without going into detail I know a guy that that didn't get to fight with his gun. Rare circumstances I know but I know of one.
Dink
Do you have ANY reason to believe that if you get into a gunfight tomorrow it'll be with your gun?
I fully intend to never get in gunfight if I can help it. But I'm sure he planned on using his gun too but it didn't work out that way.
To answer your question. I have no reason to believe that I won't be using my own gun (primary or bug).
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
Wow, that's pretty manic. He should get that checked out.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
You guys are putting up a lot of nice educational videos and advice, thanks, I may have trained myself to slingshot because I started my 1911 career constantly clearing jams and ftf/fte's with an amt hardballer.
Hey, it was the mid 80's what can I say, it was a DIY adventure.
I really enjoy watching Robert Vogel. He is bad ass with his more or less factory Glocks. Here he is going so damn fast it's hard to see how he is releasing his slide (lever)!
I like watching Robert Vogel compete, too.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
WOW. So apparently someone insulted him on Facebook/Twitter and he decided to respond on the SAME DAY that Heidi brew his very first espresso.
That was harder to watch than Sheriff Jim explaining why he still shoots Weaver.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
That was sad on many levels.
Disgrace is before ruin and pride of spirit before misfortune. Proverbs 16:18
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
That video is full of nonsense, bad advice and an obnoxious way of talking.
"There's no reason to believe that I'll fight with my gun"......What on earth is he talking about? There's a lot of pretty dang awesome reasons to believe you'll be fighting with YOUR gun.
LOL.
You're gonna love this.
That was sad on many levels.
Disgrace is before ruin and pride of spirit before misfortune. Proverbs 16:18
That was sad. But, I still have a lot of respect for Clint Smith.
Could have been the end of a long week of people taking shots at him.
Just proves he's also human, like everybody else.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
Ah, arguing about crap like this, is like arguing about which way to put the TP on the roller.
It seems a lot of folks want to be Lord and Savior to the shooting world. Look at me, look at me....
Doesn't change the fact that whether the issue is life or death or not, there is a right and wrong way to do something.
What it comes down to is the ability to pay attention to details. Some people don't give a chit about details and make excuses that it just doesn't matter. Others realize that paying attention to details matters, and they are open to learning the best way to do something, even if they've missed the importance of the detail for years or decades.
I am simply amazed that anyone would fail to grasp the importance of being as accurate, fast and effective with martial arms as possible. If being the best can still get you killed, why on earth would you settle on being good enough???
If you haven't figured out the right way to put a roll of toilet paper on a dispenser, you probably shouldn't be handling a firearm.
Ah, arguing about crap like this, is like arguing about which way to put the TP on the roller.
It seems a lot of folks want to be Lord and Savior to the shooting world. Look at me, look at me....
Doesn't change the fact that whether the issue is life or death or not, there is a right and wrong way to do something.
What it comes down to is the ability to pay attention to details. Some people don't give a chit about details and make excuses that it just doesn't matter. Others realize that paying attention to details matters, and they are open to learning the best way to do something, even if they've missed the importance of the detail for years or decades.
I am simply amazed that anyone would fail to grasp the importance of being as accurate, fast and effective with martial arms as possible. If being the best can still get you killed, why on earth would you settle on being good enough???
If you haven't figured out the right way to put a roll of toilet paper on a dispenser, you probably shouldn't be handling a firearm.
Spot on! Details makes a world of difference in every endeavor.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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