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"...even horses." Like that's bad. LOL

How old are you? In Elmers day that was normal, hell when I was growing up hawks and owls were vermin and shot regularly.

Mackay shooting at 100 yards..2013...








Shooting 200-500 yards across the Mackay Reservoir





Me with 200 yard target...

60 yards for me on cardboard deer silhouettes stapled to a couple tomato stakes, 5" S&W smooth cylinder 629 44 mag, and a 10.5" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk, both factory irons.

Both revolvers fired the 300 gr LBT WFNGC's, the Smith being a couple hundred fps slower than the Ruger.

JWP475 - I'm just a youngster - only 66. Not a tree hugger, but in all my years in the woods, there were critters I would not shoot, and birds of prey were high on the list. Just no reason. I disagree with a lot regarding Keith, but I'm a strange kind of guy - I don't like Glocks, and I don't own an AR. During my years of offshore fishing, including as a licensed charter captain, I was exposed to a lot of "fishermen's claims" - but I always carried a scale on my boat. I might be the only one on this forum who has shot a bunch of sharks with a .44 mag - but none at long range.

I really, really like handguns, but pretty much all of my shooting is connected to hunting - either sighting in or load development, if not actually hunting. I came close to buying a property last year that belonged to a couple who were both retired SWAT officers - the wife a sniper - and they had a 1,000 meter range on the property - would have certainly done some long range shooting had that deal gone through. By the way, those folks were getting out of LR rifle competition and going to skeet shooting, because of the difficulty of finding suitable ranges for meets.

Mike

Those heavy slugs penetrate like nobody's business! I just loaded up some 305 grain, wide meplat type loads, pushed by heavy doses of H110. I am going to sight in my 7.5" Redhawk with them.

Looking forward to RJM's next trip out here, so we can have a little more long range fun.

When it was legal we shot them, because they would take your chickens and they were high on my vermin list. We have too many now in my opinion and fewer squirrels than we had back in the day.

RJM set a target up on a ridge behind my cabin. It was a roughly 3'x3' piece of plywood, wired to T posts.

It was a lasered 780 yards from the porch. I watched as RJM repeatedly hit it with his .41 mag. At 780 yards the slugs went clean through and still had enough energy to bury themselves in the very hard, dry hillside.

Just for kicks, I gave it a go with my Glock 21, .45ACP. Wind was an issue, but I managed to drop one into (and right through) the target, with that first magazine.


A few things I noted from that exercise:

* Heavier projectiles were easier to spot, as they kicked up more dust.

* Having a light crimp, while not very noticeable in closer range accuracy, makes a huge difference for consistent long range accuracy. RJM had noted some variances in my loads/impacts, and suggested a Lee crimp die, with a heavy roll crimp. I took his sage advice and it made a world of difference. Now I apply the same heavier crimp to even the meager .38 Special, and it has made a significant difference.


* Shooting double action (due to requiring a more consistent grip) would often produce more consistent groups at extended ranges.

In re-reading some of Elmer's stuff, as well as McGivern's,a crimp was discussed,and it was noted that a heavy crimp was important.

McGivern used to actually load handloads (or have his assistants do so) at exhibition shoots, so as he noted the "Doubting Thomas" types could see that there were no tricks.


Speaking of McGivern, since it was noted previously in the thread that Keith's shooting was "taken with a grain of salt", here is a pic from an original copy of "Fast and Fancy Revolver shooting.":

This is a pic of a 500 yard man sized target hit 4 out of 6 times by a shooter from Montana, using a Smith .357 Magnum.





The punchline is that:

* Revolvers/handguns are FAR more capable than most have any idea about.

Handgun projectiles driven at even moderate velocities will kill/penetrate FAR better than people tend to believe or "know".


Last but not least is that you don't want RJM shooting at you, even at nearly 800 yards, with one of his .41s.

I forgot to mention, due to a change in eyesight, and the resultant blurry front sights (getting old sucks), I am going to be doing some more experimenting using red dot sights for extended range shooting.

That might have to wait until there is a lot less snow.

Yep its amazing what a 44mag and 45 colt can do in experienced hands. If your eyes are good enough, no scope or optics needed. Now days I would have trouble with the Rams at 200 yds without optics. So do what you need with it is the best advice I can give you.

Well maybe one more tip. Do not brace a 629 against your leg from a prone position. That cylinder gap will slice your new bluejeans and leg like a scalpel on firing.

Yup,

If you take a look at the pics RJM posted, you can see the blackened knee area of my blue jeans, from shooting in the braced position, with the revolver between the knees.

Mike, Elmer didn't brag of killing hawks, owls, and feral horses.. That was a way of life before the yuppies screwed up wildlife laws..I remember those times, and participated in some of it.. We had lots of game and few predators. Now we have lots of hawks, owls , wolves and little game.. You are talking about a man from a different time and way of life.. They were much better than the green crap we endure today!

If you look at pictures of IHMSA revolver competitors, almost all of them use(d) a leather or leather/kevlar blast shield to preserve their pants and protect their legs. I made one out of five layers of leather glued and riveted together and I can shoot a 40 round match with no pain at all.

That's three strikes.

You're out.




Travis

780 yard target in Mackay's "backyard"....





Looking at the cabin from the target...





From the cabin to the target...






The rock to the 2 o'clock position is what we shot at before I hauled the plywood up...

Glock 21 vs. Target....he had to aim at a passing cloud to get enough elevation...





Long walk up the hill....





Mackay and Kimber looking for bullets...





Kids always find the bullets...




Bullet splash right in front of the target...

What once was a clean target...




Mackay's .45 hole is the oblong hole near the center...it intersected with one of my .41s... I was on the 75X power potting scope when he fired. Saw the dirt kick up behind the target so I knew the round was on target...




Me and "The Kid"...





Bullet on the left is a 240 grain Lyman Round Nose that went through the upper right corner of the target, hit the T-post and was laying on the ground about 6' to the left of the target...just a lucky find. The other is the 255 Cast Performance WFN-GC that Kimber found.




Mackay mentioned his crimp problem. When he was shooting his .44 loads the velocities were so inconsistent that the bullets were hitting in a 200'+ vertical dispersion....yet he hit the 100 yard gong no problem.

..can hardly wait to be able to do this again.....

Bob

Mackay/ RJM,

In a pic above, one of you is holding a blue 5" S&W N frame with a fiber optic front sight. I've always heard and believed that such a sight would be difficult for use in long range shooting. Please share your experience. How did that work?

Edited to add:

Also, RJM, you mention that you were shooting a 255 gr WFNGC. Again and again I have read that the WFN profile isn't stable at long distance. That evidently is not your experience. At what velocity are you pushing those? If you loaded them down, do you think they would remain stable?

The Cast Performance round is 22.0 grains of H110 from a 6" FA 653.

BC approximately .225

According to the Hornady ballistic calculator:

Muzzle velocity: Actual is 1450+- fps
Velocity at 800: 707 fps

Muzzle energy: 1190
Energy at 800: 283

Holding dead on the target with the bottom of the blade at the top of the rear notch the height above the line of sight at 450 yards would be in the area of 360" or 30'....

So getting hit by one of these rounds at 800 would be like getting shot by a Charter Arms .44 Special Bulldog at point blank range... 240 grain bullet at 750 fps...300 foot pounds of energy......

That was Mackay's...and yes it isn't the best sight for long range work... I'm sure Mackay will expand on that...

Bob