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I like my Leupolds Fx-3 6x42 German#4 ret
and my FX-II 3x20 Heavy Duplex
the best of any scopes I have ever
owned


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I think a fixed six is about perfect for a hunting rifle. I have six or seven different 6x scopes I have aquired over the years. They normally have greater eye relief and look clearer to a comparable variable from the same company set at the same magnification.

The reason they don't get updated is they don't require it. If you want a cheap scope the Weaver is a great bang for the buck right along with SS. You want high end there is Meopta or S&B. There are several in between those.


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The fixed six meets most of my needs as well. The Meopta MeoPro 6x42 is perfect for me. It doesn't need to be improved or upgraded.

My one concern is whether it will continue to be available. It shared a common tube with the MeoPro 3-9x42 which is discontinued. Since then the price has increased and it is not always in stock. I addressed this concern by buying several that I found at a reasonable price as spares. I am using six and have three in reserve.

There would be no return on investment for further development of a fixed power scope for me.

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Originally Posted by GrimJim
The fixed six meets most of my needs as well. The Meopta MeoPro 6x42 is perfect for me. It doesn't need to be improved or upgraded.

My one concern is whether it will continue to be available. It shared a common tube with the MeoPro 3-9x42 which is discontinued. Since then the price has increased and it is not always in stock. I addressed this concern by buying several that I found at a reasonable price as spares. I am using six and have three in reserve.

There would be no return on investment for further development of a fixed power scope for me.


If it's like my 3-9x42 I wouldn't mind an upgrade to the adjustment labels with an adjustable zero marker.

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4winds: In the several "fixed power" scopes I own (I greatly prefer variable power scopes for both Big Game Hunting and VarmintHunting!) I can not think of any "advancements" I wish any of them might someday have?
I am happy that variable scopes have attained a degree of reliability that gives me the same contentment.
I helped mount a Zeiss variable scope yesterday with a power range of 5 to 25 power!
The owner I am sure will be content with that scope and its performance for the rest of his life.
He should be content at the price he paid for it!
The only thing I would like to see change in today's quality scopes lines is a reduction in their costs.
Maybe an improvement in "competition and competitors" will help bring down scope prices.
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Originally Posted by alpinecrick

I was at Sportsman's Warehouse last night and not a single fixed power was in the display case. Wouldn't be surprised if fixed power makes up 1% of Leup's annual sales.


And those 1% probably come from a few guys on this board.

They just don't sell enough of them to put any effort into them, that's the reason. In about 40 years of hunting I've never seen anyone, other than myself, with a fixed power scope on a hunting rifle. I used a FX-III for one year then took it off and sold it, went back to a good variable and am happier, I didn't see the fixed 6x fascination to be honest. Maybe they're more popular out west but where I hunt nobody uses them.

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Originally Posted by Crow hunter


And those 1% probably come from a few guys on this board.



Pretty much this...no one buys them. The SWFA SS fixed sell because they are a cheap way to get into a reliable long range scope, and for no other reason.

These discussions always remind me of the constant whining, largely on gun boards, about wanting truck manufacturers to build bare bones, manual transmission, rubber floored 4cyl 4x4s again....if they would sell more than two a year, they would build them.

Much of this, like the love for fixed scopes on here, comes from a stance of forced curmudgeonism. For some reason, some portion of society thinks its cool to be old fashioned, or simple, or resistant to change for no real reason. In reality, these sorts of folks are what spawned the term "Fudd..."

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Originally Posted by CowboyTim
Originally Posted by 4winds
Originally Posted by deflave
I don't really understand the question.

Leupold pretty much owns the market in mainstream fixed power hunting scopes and I feel the glass and coatings have improved right along with everything else.

Scopes like the SWFA can only go so far in advancements before they become cost prohibitive to the market they are aimed at.

March makes fixed 40 and 50 powers...




Dave



...Hell, the 4x gets no love from anyone, does anyone other than Leupold even make one anymore?...




Weaver makes a damn good 4x38 Classic...I've got several of them. Absolutely the best 4x for the money out there IMHO. I believe that Swift makes one that is supposed to be decent. Meopta makes one, but not in a series they import to the US. I have a new production Russian VOMZ 4x32M, steel tube well built with pretty fair glass, but for the same price the Weaver kills it. There is a Romanian company that sells a high end 4x32, can't remember their name off hand...of course you have the regular assortment of cheap junk that has always been there too.

CowboyTim


IOR Valdada is the Romanian company. I have 4x scope of theirs that is 20 yrs. old and one of my favorite scopes ever. I bought it for 250.00 ( now lot more) then and other then the strange adjustments is an awesome scope. Wish I had a 6x also. I had a 8x56 of theirs that was too big and heavy for my use but an awesome scope as well.
I have :
4x weaver
2- 6x Weavers
4x IOR
20x SWFA SS

I do need a couple more 6x weavers so all guns in cabinet are ready to go.
All are older and have proved very durable.
I am upgrading my Binos and such as they are more important to my hunting then the scope.

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Originally Posted by liliysdad
Originally Posted by Crow hunter


And those 1% probably come from a few guys on this board.



Pretty much this...no one buys them. The SWFA SS fixed sell because they are a cheap way to get into a reliable long range scope, and for no other reason.

These discussions always remind me of the constant whining, largely on gun boards, about wanting truck manufacturers to build bare bones, manual transmission, rubber floored 4cyl 4x4s again....if they would sell more than two a year, they would build them.

Much of this, like the love for fixed scopes on here, comes from a stance of forced curmudgeonism. For some reason, some portion of society thinks its cool to be old fashioned, or simple, or resistant to change for no real reason. In reality, these sorts of folks are what spawned the term "Fudd..."



The only thing my truck needs to do is keep running while taking a beating. I do like heated / cooling seats though, lol!

This is not a fixed vs variable thread. It's a curiosity for the lack of interest from manufacturers to make any current improvements to fixed scopes, The shooting industry as whole seems to have improved everything in every area, but this one.

I have both types of scopes. No one can argue that a fixed scope will be superior in every spec to a variable set on the same magnification and built on the exact same standards. A variable, however, offers more convenience and a better platform for marketing.

All my variables wound up set on 4x or 6x, except for killing small critters with a solid platform to shoot on. I'll take the fixed scope every time, but I guess to each his own.

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I'll play...if only because I seen a scope once.

Firstly,Joe Average ain't very fhuqking bright and that transitions across a myriad of facets in which they "think" they are "informed",but sure as fhuqk are NOT. Nor close. Hint.

Not so "curiously",them DUMB Fhuqk constants transition fluidly in Outdoor Riggin',from things as simplistic as twist rate,boolit selection,mounting systems and assuredly in 'scope selection. If only as espoused by the Boobs on this Thread alone and of course all others. Hint.

A scope's SOLE fhuqking purpose is to steer boolits,full stop,end of fhuqking story. Hint.

Of course The Paper Hat Brigade and Window Lickers everywhere,obliviously overlook that constant and fixate Fluff instead,which is of course never not fhuqking hilarious. Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't. Hint.

The hilarity REALLY gets to fhuqking rollin',when one grants Boobs opportunity to expound upon Scopetitude and Outlandish FLUFF Fixation(s). Simply put and in a nutshell,fixed glass whether camera lenses,bino's,spotter eyepieces or boolit steering devices are more ruggedly reliable,due fewer parts in the whole and as an interface. I realize that makes too much fhuqking sense for The Mart Mart Bubble Pack Gang and their "Life's" tally of rounds expended,but it is a simplistic fhuqking FACT. Hint.

Just as when case capacity gets increased,more things go awry as X's get increased and I've seen farrrrrrrrrrrr more fhuqked up schit with folks totin' Variables and Fire Breathing Dragons,than I have Fixed Glass and a fixation on boolits,rather than headstamps. Hint. Read that again,now one more fhuqking time. Re-hint.

There is a rampant serries of Delusions,encompassingglass that REALLY does track,repeat and return to where it's supposed to...in that it is somehow "tricky","slow","unfriendly" and a "concession". Strike that and reverse it,as nothing could be further from Reality. Hint.

Modest Fixed X's will reliably do amazing things,in all conditions and as per whim. They also happen to be the most forgiving in light values,eye-relief,erector travel and the sanctity of schit simply being fhuqking static,which Boobs are quick to overlook(because the only things they "shoot" are their mouths and Imagination). Hint.

Gunning a Fightin' Boomer,it's tough to whoop a Reupold 6x42(older Gen's) wearing M1 ele. Why? Nothing touches it's eye-relief in actuality. 60MOA ain't a whole fhuqking bunch and it's starved for a true Utilitarian reticle,but for speed of acquisition,forgiving mounting and supreme eye-relief it connects the most dots. No thang to conjoin say Wide Duplex holdoff's with the erector and do some nice things on a Boomer. I'm talkin' lithe rifles that burn over 100grs of powder per yank and UNloudenered of course. Hell...I've even seen me do it. LOTS. Understatement. Hint.

That being said,the 6x MQ simply has NO answer,where extreme eye-relief forgiveness isn't a first mandate. Why? It's far and away the best at steering boolits and gives up nothing tangible in the Optical Department,to reap such extreme latitude. Scopes are just a canister to hold a reticle,until it's time to kill sumptin',tear paper,ring steel or the like. Hint.

Now there are of course others who have tried various Fixed Glass and in fairness,there is better glass used in some,but NONE can touch the 6x MQ's effectiveness,because NONE couple as many things that actually matter(steer boolits),than the MQ Fixed Fhuqker do. It has unrivaled erector travel,killer rear parallax adjustment capabilities,a reticle that jives with it's erector,is easy to mount upon anything,takes Rugged Reliability to a whole 'nother World and simply conjoins all in a boolitproof parcel. Them thangs all bear fruit and are the antithesis of Fluff. Hint.

S&B,IOR,USO,Meopta,Reupold,NightFarce,yada,yada...noone else even comes fhuqking close. Were the MQ Fixed Fhuqkers $1000 a pop,they'd still be a fhuqking STEAL,due the rugged reliability alone. Hint.

Now in fairness,I've "only" had 100's of scopes to extrapolate and can only speak to owning close to 50 Fixed Fhuqkers,though have gunned well over 100 and have yet to see a "glitch","bobble" or an "issue"...but I of course shoot daily. Hint.

So while I've looooonnnnggggggggg had a GREAT appreciation for Fixed Glass and have a larder geared towards same,I've had far more Variable failures than I have Fixed,despite an inordinate ratio that'd favor the Variables side of that spectrum. Current crop Reupolds really fhuqking suck and I ain't talking about them. Back up a Gen or two there and thank me later. Hint.

Now as to Fixed "advancements"? WTF is there to wish for,that ain't already there? Everything that MATTERS,is already conveniently offered in a parcel ready to fhuqking go. Takes about 7-seconds to dump in a zero stop,then it's Dumb Fhuqk PROOF. Hint.

Folks is reliably over headstamped,under boolited and over X'd...then they cain't wait to PROVE all of it. Funny schit!

Nobody can see what a 6x MQ will do on the first poke and then go back to what they "thought" they "knew",conducting bidness as they did prior to that exposure. It is an overwhelming landslide of Rugged Reliability,that'll happily thread needles in whatever zipcode you wanna do bidness in. 10 Mils of ele STARE you in the fhuqking face,along with 5 Mils of wind holdoff and though Greek to Joe Average,it is a copious amount of latitude available in a literal blink of the eye. Hint. 40+ Mils on the erector,might not hurt the equation either. Hint. The sensory overload of the GoogleFu just unleashed in consternation,is more than just a "touch" HILARIOUS too. Ohhhhhhhhh the bandwidth. Laffin'!

Spent primers are THE Supreme Tutorial and it ain't ever been tough to cypher who do and who don't. Manufacturers don't and Joe Average don't either,so they "get" to bask in that "sanctity"...which never ain't not fhuqking FUNNY and floods the market with sheer and utter fhuqking bullschit wares that are swooned by the Clueless!

Facts and Physics ain't "subjective".

Congratulations?!?

You've been led to water...thank me later.

Hint.

Not very "difficult" to have 1000yds+ of DOPE staring one in the face ala ocular cap,which correlates to the reticle and of course the turret both. Hint.

[Linked Image]

KNOWING trumps guessin'.

Re-hint.

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I suspect fixed scopes have not been more popular because the average joe has been assuming for years that variable scopes maintain their mechanical integrity just fine. It's a reasonable assumption and I was in that boat until a few years back. I chalked up my misses to shooter error or whatever, and never really demanded absolute precision out of my scopes. I just never realized how poorly some of my variable scopes had been performing.

That all changed a few years back when on a whim I started to rotate my scopes onto some superbly accurate Anschutz rifles I have and then the results were like cold water in my face. To my disappointment I started to see that many of my variables were changing point of impact when I changed magnification. Also many of my variables were not dialing accurately.

I did a lot of box tests, ladder tests, and POI tests and I keep the results in three ring binders. Have tested many different brands and models borrowed from friends and you ought to see how violated one guy looked when we found his Vortex 2-7x35 Diamondback rimfire model shifted POI a full 2 1/2 inches at 50 meters when changing from 2x to 7x.

Don't think I'm singling out Vortex. I've documented troubling failures in most popular brands of variable scopes along with good results on other individuals. The bottom line for me is I can't trust a variable to be precise until I have proven it to be so, and then I'm not sure if it will stay that way.

I've mostly converted to fixed scopes. I tend to go mostly Leupold for the set and forget it type, and I've been having good luck with the super chickens if I want a dialer. Am getting more convinced that less is more on this subject matter. fwiw...

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I've now had 17 different BRANDS of scopes fail in one way or another in my rifles. That's not individual scopes, but brands--and some of the brands have failed up to 4 times. Of those failed scopes, the vast majority have been variables--and the few fixed-powers that failed usually had taken far more abuse than the variables.

As an example, one had been mounted on multiple rifles of at least .338 Winchester Magnum recoil on up to .40-caliber African cartridges, often for hundreds of rounds. Eventually the wire reticle broke--but not enough to cause the scope to go out of zero.

To be fair, I often TRY to break scopes, by putting them on harder-kicking rifles and seeing how long they last. Quite a few don't make it through 2-3 boxes of ammunition--but so far only one of those was a fixed-power. Some variables didn't even last a box.

Some of the failed variables have been relatively inexpensive scopes, but quite a few have retailed for $800 and up. Some have been in the mid-price range, say $500 to $800. Off the top of my head I can recall two mid-priced variables that didn't last 200 rounds, and the "biggest" rifles they were mounted on were in the .243 Winchester/.25-06 Remington recoil range.

Have also seen multiple variables belonging to my hunting companions fail over the years, often in the middle of an expensive hunt somewhere. It's even happened to me a couple of times, but I came prepared with a spare fixed-power scope, already sighted-in in appropriate rings. My friends did not, because they believed the "quality" variables on their rifles were unbreakable. One of them ended up borrowing my spare rifle on the hunt.

Now, I do have variables on many of my lighter-recoiling rifles, mostly varmint rifles--but once in a while a variable even quits on a rifle chambered in .204 Ruger or .223 Remington. Shooting light-recoiling rifles thousands of times can be just as hard on a scope as a few dozen shots on a light .300 Winchester Magnum. But usually when shooting a BUNCH, at varmints like prairie dogs, I have several rifles along anyway.

The toughest variables available these days, in fact in my experience the only ones to consistently last PERHAPS as long as fixed powers, are the reinforced, heavy-duty scopes often called "tactical." But even then I don't trust them as much as fixed scopes of the same type, again due to having some heavy-duty variables fail, sometimes after relatively few shots on something like a .338 Lapua.

If somebody else is convinced that modern variables are as tough as fixed powers, I'm happy for them. But that is not my experience, and is the big reason so many of my rifles have fixed powers.


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Something to be said for Simplicity.......less to fail wink

Good posts as usual JB

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Mule Deer,

The reasons you listed above are exactly why I wish for SWFA to add a couple of features to their fixed x line. I would much prefer the ruggedness of a fixed x scope with some of the features offered on some of the variables, namely the LRHS. That being said, my LRHS is holding up... so far...

John

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Originally Posted by liliysdad


Pretty much this...no one buys them. The SWFA SS fixed sell because they are a cheap way to get into a reliable long range scope, and for no other reason.

These discussions always remind me of the constant whining, largely on gun boards, about wanting truck manufacturers to build bare bones, manual transmission, rubber floored 4cyl 4x4s again....if they would sell more than two a year, they would build them.

Much of this, like the love for fixed scopes on here, comes from a stance of forced curmudgeonism. For some reason, some portion of society thinks its cool to be old fashioned, or simple, or resistant to change for no real reason. In reality, these sorts of folks are what spawned the term "Fudd..."


Our dealerships do get in trucks like that and they sell like hotcakes.

Your view on fixed powers is pretty fugkin' dumb.



Dave


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I believe it's for 2 reasons.
#1. Shooter ignorance,
which is directly connected to reason #2
That being simply what the industry is making and selling.

Shooter ignorance of the usefulness and assets of fixed power scopes may have something to do with the lack of availability. Today it's getting a bit harder to find good fixed powder scopes, so many of us settle for a variable. The factories may be making more money on variables, but that's just a guess.

I have been working on a scope mounting system that incorporates windage and elevation, and is rugged enough for military use. The adjustment range can move the POI at 100 yards over 60 FEET left to right. It will move the elevation up 15 FEET and down 9 feet. So zeroing will not be a problem.

I don't know if I am going to pull this off yet, but I am poking at it right now.

My idea is to make SUPER good quality scopes with ranging marks on the reticles. NO windage and NO elevation built in at all. Just a slick tube that can be used to drive nails without damage to the lenses.

My idea is to make all adjustments on the base. If I can get it done and make it strong enough I have been assured by 3 scope companies(In Europe) that they can make "bomb proof" scopes at about 15% the cost of their best offerings today, if it were nothing but a telescope and there would be no reduction in quality at all.
In fact I am told they can make an even better product, but the adjustments would all have to be external.

I am working on that now. I can do it, but I need to do it an a way that is (A) Bomb-proof and (B) not overly large or heavy. Small and light are the challenges. I hope I can do it. We'll see.

But I believe a $200 -$275 scope of the best quality made in the world can be put on $500 mounts,(total $700 to $800 + or-) and we'd have a far better system than having $2400-to $3000 scopes of the same (or slightly less) quality on $150 mounts.(total $550 to $3150 + or-)

This is not my "1st love" and I am dinking around with it on my spare time, but I do have some interest generated so far, so I am going to see if I can move forward with this.

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Sounds like your reinventing the Balvar 8 with a better mount.


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Originally Posted by szihn
I believe it's for 2 reasons.
#1. Shooter ignorance,
which is directly connected to reason #2
That being simply what the industry is making and selling.

Shooter ignorance of the usefulness and assets of fixed power scopes may have something to do with the lack of availability. Today it's getting a bit harder to find good fixed powder scopes, so many of us settle for a variable. The factories may be making more money on variables, but that's just a guess.

I have been working on a scope mounting system that incorporates windage and elevation, and is rugged enough for military use. The adjustment range can move the POI at 100 yards over 60 FEET left to right. It will move the elevation up 15 FEET and down 9 feet. So zeroing will not be a problem.

I don't know if I am going to pull this off yet, but I am poking at it right now.

My idea is to make SUPER good quality scopes with ranging marks on the reticles. NO windage and NO elevation built in at all. Just a slick tube that can be used to drive nails without damage to the lenses.

My idea is to make all adjustments on the base. If I can get it done and make it strong enough I have been assured by 3 scope companies(In Europe) that they can make "bomb proof" scopes at about 15% the cost of their best offerings today, if it were nothing but a telescope and there would be no reduction in quality at all.
In fact I am told they can make an even better product, but the adjustments would all have to be external.

I am working on that now. I can do it, but I need to do it an a way that is (A) Bomb-proof and (B) not overly large or heavy. Small and light are the challenges. I hope I can do it. We'll see.

But I believe a $200 -$275 scope of the best quality made in the world can be put on $500 mounts,(total $700 to $800 + or-) and we'd have a far better system than having $2400-to $3000 scopes of the same (or slightly less) quality on $150 mounts.(total $550 to $3150 + or-)

This is not my "1st love" and I am dinking around with it on my spare time, but I do have some interest generated so far, so I am going to see if I can move forward with this.


Jeff Cooper wrote of this some years back, but i
don't ever remember any manufacturer interest

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Kuharsky base sets and B&L vintage scopes are on Ebay all the time. Browning/Sako and Win 70 pre-war right now... Look to be New In Pkg...

The 6x Hunter Benchrest scopes are pretty much state of the art. Sightron, and Burris (maybe still) are committed there. Leupold made the Mark 4 6x and the M8 6x w/ao and their tall target turrets. Those tall turrets are pretty rugged and precise. Have had 2 of the 6x mk4 and at least 1 of the M8s all tricked-out.


Biggest area for Improvement I'd like to see is reduction in the length of the ocular lens group. Leupold is about the best in that dept, and it really aids positioning. Along with that, would like to see longer eye relief.

Tactical knobs are great for precision dialing, but with ballistic dots, if you are zeroed, you're ballpark for making your shot even if the reticle adjustment craps out. Another reason for a glass-etched reticle; they don't break.

The mark 4 10x and 6x scopes offered Mil-Dot, Target-Dot, and Duplex reticle choices. The 6x scope was only a couple years in production, back in the late 90s. I have had all 3 reticles.

Lots of guys rave about the 1.5-5x design for toughness. There is a Mark 4 model with a very good specialty reticle, built to be tough with precise movements. Get the lit reticle and order a turret tuned to your ammunition to have all the tricks. Set that baby at 5 and you're at 4.5x. Spendy, but gives you all the options. Also has a very short ocular lens assy.

I also have one of the steel 26mm tube IOR-Bucuresti's with a German #1 style reticle. It's a cool scope, but 26mm rings aren't easy to source these days.

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Anybody make a fixed 6 with a lighted duplex (or some other simple reticle)?


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