Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 358 Winchester Loads

Hey Guys looking for some help. Got my custom 358 win done and I just got the barrel broken in.

The rife showed an immediate preference for the Wisconsin Cartridge Load Speer 180 gr flat nose at 2600 fps over the Hornaday 200 grain factory load at about 2450 fps.

I have Nosler 225 partitions, Speer 220's and 180's, Hornaday 200 gr Spire points on hand.

The rifle is a modern 700 with HS Bottom Metal and Magazine. I can run that bullet out to about 2.85 or so C.O.A.L the barrel is a Douglas premium 1-12 twist 22"

Since it showed a preference right away for the Speer profile, I m inclined to go right after a good stout load with that 220 grain bullet.

I have Varget, 3031, and 4064 on hand, but I can track down other powders fairly easily. Since its such a short bullet I feel I can get away without over compressing a load.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks again!

TAC

51grs with a 200gr TSX gives about 2700fps from a 22" tube.

Will the Barnes open up at 250 - 300 yards. I 've had issues in the past with the tsx not opening in smaller calibers.

How compressed is that load and I m assuming that's a max load since its way over Ramshots loading data.

If I reduced 15% and worked up would that be ok?

Also what was the COAL ON that load?

Sorry for all the additional questions.

I've not used it at 300 yards. Sub your 200gr Hornday in.

I got it from an article that John Barsness did. He used 52grs of TAC for 200gr bullets. If you look at TAC data for the 338 Federal, you'll see they get about 2700fps with 200gr bullets, so it stands to reason that you can sling like weight bullets at least as fast, if not faster from the 358, which is 51grs for me.

Not compressed in the least.

I just ordered the back issue that has that article in it. Hope to have it soon enough. I'm wondering if the TTSX could be used in place of the TSX?

What would also be nice is if Nosler got off their butts and got the .35 cal 200 grain Accubond out again. One can only hope

It's a good article. I've had zero problems switching between TSX and TTSX.

The 225gr Partition is another good bullet for the 358

47.5grs of 3031 and a 220 Speer runs 2440fps from my 22" barreled Hawkeye and is right at 1".


I shoot the 200gr Hornady with 47grs H4895 at 2500fps mainly.

While not a .358 my .35 Whelen likes 225gr. Nosler or Sierra bullets over a moderate charge of IMR 4064. This load should do well in the .358 too.

That's a good load about .5 grains under max right for the 220?

That 200 gr Hornady load sounds darn close to Hornadys factory 358 load. I think they print 2475 on the box!



My concern with the bigger bullets and 4064 is I will run right out of room in the case and have a fairly compressed load? Maybe not. I like 4064 I'll have to explore it thanks!

You'll like TAC more.

I m going to go find some. I was working the calculator and if I go with a 225 grain Nosler Partition and get it moving out of the rifle at or around 2450 fps everything in the world is right.

It would still be running at 1800 fps and 1600 fps energy at 350 yards.

That's exactly what I m looking for right there.

I will add that if for some reason I get to 2550 fps its the same numbers at 400 yards!

I m assuming that Tac data will fall into play here!

48 gr RL-10 sparked by a CCI-250 primer under a 200 gr TTSX goes 2700 fps in Hornady brass at 2.800" in my Ruger all weather hawkeye.

It fires absolute consistent sub inch three shot groups at 100 yards, I wouldn't have concern of bullet expansion out to 400 yards or until velocities fall below 1800 fps, hunting elevations would dictate max yardage.

Since IN now allows 6mm and .30 cal cartridges for deer hunting, I'm not using my 358 Hoosier much. I've got some of the 200 gain Accubonds if somebody needs them, PM me.

And around 46 grains of TAC and a 200 grain bullet works great in that rifle....

I will take them PM sent

I use 51 grs of TAC with Seirra 220 shoots awesome groups and hits like a hammer! Mines a HOWA 1500 .243 rebored to 358 with Timmey trigger 3 groove rifling! Taking it on the 24hourcampfire annual hog hunt next month! TAC is the best in this cartridge I found!

I've had some bullet failures from the Hornady 200 gr SP on deer! They explode ruining lots of meat! That's why I went to the 220!

yeah I think there's and overwhelming amount of support for Tac. I located some about an hour away. Time for a road trip!

I got 2 8lb jugs just in case! Great in 223 too.

+1 on TAC. I use 51 grns in my BLR and shot a medium doe at about 200 yards with the 200 Hornady SP. A pass through that broke the opposite shoulder coming out. I'd like to try the TTSX but haven't yet.

I've shot a lot of IMR 4064 in it and it's a great powder, very accurate but it won't give the velocity TAC will. I used 48.5 and shot this group with the 200 Sierra, maybe 2400-2450 fps.

That's damn good shooting from a BLR!

I shoot the 225 gr. TSX at 2710 FPS from my .35 Whelen and it sure as hell opened up on a cow elk at 350 yards laser measured. I did not recover the bullet and it may still be traveling along. I've shot five elk with that load so far and have not recovers a bullet. Shots have ranged from 150 to 350 yards.
I think that 200 at 2700 FPS or close to it should workOK to 300+ yards.
Paul B.

Yeah I was thinking the 200 @ 2700 was a good one for the 358.

I m hoping to work up a 200 Accubond in that neighborhood as well.

Good to here they are working for you!

Quick update, I ran the TAC with a 225 Nosler out of my 358 today. Temp was about 22 degrees out overcast with a decent breeze. I didn't shoot for serious accuracy I simply wanted to get to the load printed in the article.

I had to sub CCI 250's for Fed 215's as there are none to be had around me and I also had 1000 of the 250's.

So, I was able to print 2531 fps and 2524 fps with 225's pushed by 49 grains of TAC. My COAL was 2.71"

No pressure signs and extraction was supper smooth!

Wanted to thank everyone that helped. I have some 200 grain loads to work up (trying for 2700+) and some 225 accuracy testing to do.

Cheers

Might not be super helpful but I recently got a 358 win that I had cut down to 16". I loaded up 225 NPTs with both TAC and RL-10. Only shot the RL-10 so far but it gave me best grouping at just over 2400 (2408 fps average) out of my 16" barrel. Will see what it does with the TAC next week.

That is quite interesting actually. I have more work to do with mine. The data I collected suggested that for every .5 grain of TAC I was an average gain of 25 fps. I landed on the published load without any issues of 49 gr of TAC.

Since it was 22 degrees out yesterday I figured I was close enough at 2531 fps. I also had to sub CCI 250's for the Fed's. No biggie as the CCI tends to be more accurate anyways just not as hot. That Reloader 10 does seem to be a decent choice for the 358 no doubt

And TAC meters so nicely.

Note to self, buy some TAC..........

I went with RL-10 because all Western Powders [TAC] is unobtanum in these parts.

That it does...looking forward to seeing how my 358 likes it. I have no doubts the velocity will be as good or better. Just a matter if it will group as well. We shall see I guess.

Yeah it does! I m very happy with my initial work with it.



That's an excellent idea!



Bummer.............but reloader 10 is good!




I think accuracy is subjective. After spending lots of time and money chasing tiny groups I've gone to a different way of judging accuracy. It's all based on hunting or minute of deer as some say. What I do now after developing a good load that show potential accuracy during testing I load a bunch and hit the field and shoot steel.

I decide if a load is accurate enough for hunting by shooting from field positions out to 400 yards. If I have a hard time keeping a load on an 8 inch steel at 400 it is scraped. I shoot for kill shots now.....I have learned that if far more important than tiny groups. Also a rifle and load combo that does that constantly will do the same at 100 so 1 - 2 MOA is plenty for me.

Just my two sense

I shot ALOT of groups using 4320 and 4895 before trying TAC.

velocity definitely better with TAC.

Group size didnt shrink though. Most groups in the 2-3" range. my BLR just doesnt seem like it wants to produce a stellar group.

all that said.... out to 200 or so, it's ample for anything I'll hunt.

most of my groups were fired using the 225 PT.

the 225 AB didnt work for me because the bullet has so much taper that it has to be seated really deep in the case in order to fit in the box magazine.

I shot the 200gr Horn SP too. No gains there.

I've had good results using Ramshot TAC with 225 gr. NP's in my Ruger M77. I've gotten .75 MOA or below at 100 yards with 3 shot groups several times, and it is close to MOA at 200 yards. I don't have a chronograph but, this load is near max so I'm guessing somewhere around 2,450 fps. The recipe I use is:

46.3 grains TAC (and yes, it meters nicely)
WLR Primers
COL 2.780
Winchester Brass

Cool Biggs,

47 grains of TAC ran 2400 with a 225 partition out of my rifle. That's what the chrony said anyways.

I m thinking your load may be closer to 2350 - 2375 based on my data I collected the other day.

It's supper accurate so I certainly wouldn't sweat it

Good Stuff!

Had a guy reload for my BLR 81 in 358 years ago. Could only get 2.5 inch groups with any 200 gr factory loading, including the newer Hornady. It shoots half inch all day long at 80 yds with this load. 250 gr Hornady RN bullet. CCI 200 primer. 41.1 grains of IMR 4320. And drops deer dead. It did take awhile to figure this out. Don't know what FPS it moves at.

I've said it before here BLR, my 358 is the fastest killing round I've ever had and can't put my finger on why, it's certainly not the biggest and by far from the fastest.

The dozen and a half or so deer, and the five or six pigs I've hit with it either die where they stand, or do a 15 yard death sprint with a face in the dirt landing, beats all I've ever seen.

I've blown cantaloupe sized holes through a deers ribcage with 300 WM and 7mm STW's completely eviscerating everything and still have them run near a hundred yards.

I'll keep using my little Hawkeye 358, I gotta get to the bottom of this abnormality.

Only reason I quit hunting with it was because it was my father's and I will have to pass it down someday. Now I use a 257 Weatherby. The 358 may be a bulldozer but that 257 is lightning!!!

Noble cause, and yes, I hunt with a close to 257 WM 25-06 AI, "lightning" is right!

Gunner, I may have to give that sucker a try in my BLR. My current load is W748 and 225 PT's. Does about 2450 and hammers stuff pretty well, but I have really worked with the 358 in a few years. Might be time to break it out and give it a try.

I agree about the 358 hammering deer. Nothing much better in the deer woods in my opinion. I haven't had any problem running it out to 300 yards on 8" plates.. Seems to whack em pretty hard..

I agree...this is a 358 win for crying out loud. For me its going to be a 300 yard and in gun at the very most. I am happy with 1.5-2 MOA for most of my hunting rifles as I simply don't shoot game beyond 300 yards all that often. But when I get a new rifle I still work up loads with a few powders and bullets to see what it likes best and go from there. Usually something always shoots 1.5" or better @100 which is just fine with me.

200 gr Interbond, 47.5 gr IMR4064. Not the fastest I've shot but puts 3 in 3/8"

Hope your rifle likes it Beretzs, it's a hell of a load in the 358, not needed for deer of course, but I'm a one load for one riflee guy, much, much less complicated that way, I really like the 35 cal's too.

I'm going to give it a shot Gunner. I like 10x and have plenty of it.

I'll have to order some of the 200 TTSXs.

How have they worked on deer and hogs Gunner. Good looking wound channels. Haven't messed with Barnes in awhile but the tipped version makes me feel a little better.

I know right lol.

I have settled on the 225 Nosler Partition @ 2525 fps using TAC. I m going to start doing some fine tuning of the load, but overall its a good one.

The 200 gr TTSX has left inch and a half diameter wound channels completely through every deer or pig I've hit with it, it's a rough customer buddy.

I loaded some 200 SP Hornadys today, shoots about an inch high as its sighted in with 220 Sierra Game Kings, 52.0 grs. of TAC, very good groups! Almost hot though, 51.0 is awesome too!

Gunner

I used a 200gr TTSX (over TAC) in my .358 on a Manitoba bear last spring. Fastest bear kill ever for me. BANG-flop. Complete pass-through and very narrow wound channel.

WN

That's great intel. Gunner sent me some to try. Need to get some loaded up!

I'll be damned WN, I keep a box of rubber gloves close on hunts, after the shot and dressing i use the gloves to push the chum-goo out of the way to study the wound channels, with the gunk outta the way those holes looked every bit 1.5"s.

I'll now need to shoot a black bear with my 358 so we can compare notes.

Hope you get sub inch groups like I do with that combo Beretzs, the little medium bore 358 barks [and bites] like a big dog so loaded.

Just a little update, so far 2 loads have shined.

1st - 52 gr TAC with a Hornady 200 gr RN hitting 2684 fps easily. This is the most accurate 1/2 inch or less groups from my rifle

2nd - 49 gr TAC with Nosler 225 gr Partition hitting 2500 fps easily. This is a 3/4 inch load from my rifle.

I like both loads a lot. I m having tons of fun with the round nose though!

TAC is awesome!

I really like TAC for this and hot 35 Remington.

Just an unrelated side note I found interesting compared to this load above - Some factory 460 S&W revolver ammo I pulled down also used 52gr of ball powder and a 200gr Hornady bullet, but in this case 52gr of what I suspect is H110. Pulling those loads down was an eye opener for me! Shooting them was too!

That is interesting, I was getting readings on that loads actually up to 2725 fps, but I was having trouble with my old "Chrony" again. I'd like to get an new set up I suspect my readings will be much better. But the standard deviation is 16 fps with an average of all shots 2684 fps. I can live with that for sure.

I'd like to get one of those magneto speed readers

How many shots for that estimate?

30 rounds........ probably need to shoot 2 batches of 50 to really get the number right, but I don't spend a lot of time on Standard Deviation because sometimes its like chasing a ghost. At the end of the 30 shot sting that's the number my "Chrony" gave me.

Well that and its a flippin' 358 win....a 50 fps SD isn't gonna mean a whole lot even to 300 yards which is as far as I really plan to use my 358 win.

Well that and its a flippin' 358 win....a 50 fps SD isn't gonna mean a whole lot even to 300 yards which is as far as I really plan to use my 358 win.[/quote]

That's exactly right! I will use my CDS to the fullest. it tops out around 450 ish With the Noslers.

Man I love the .358 Win and my rifle!

49 gr of TAC and the 225 PT was too hot in my rifle. 2561 fps

primer fell out on 3rd shot. =/ definitely spooky.

I backed off to 48 gr @ 2508 fps.

I'd have to look at my notes but i want to say 48-49 was a 50 fps spread on my rifle as well.

The only pressure issues I encountered was with some Lake City Brass I worked from 308 to 358. That brass was a problem and every other shot was sticky. After 20 rounds I pulled the rest of them and the brass went into the trash.

I even had reduced by a full 2.5 grains on the charge. Still wasn't enough. Not had a single issue with standard brass at all.

The 200 gr load is basically my do all load right now.

The Nosler will be my Big Game Round mainly because of the superior ballistics. In my opinion it maxes out the 358 capabilities and makes it a capable rifle farther than I care to shoot

The cartridge is so dang efficient

Lake city brass needs less powder that is for sure!

What would a " normal" 35 Remington load be with TAC?

Thanks!

Angus, I use Remington brass with the 35R and have had good accuracy with both 39 and 40gr of TAC using 200gr Hornady RN bullets.

Thanks!

One of my builds this semester is a short 358 for hunting in thick woods. How do you think this load will work in a 20" tube at, say, 25-50 yards?

I've tried the 51g of TAC with 200g TSX, but only got 2400 fps. If you can get the 2700 fps that should be a dandy load.

2450 out of a 19" tube with 48gr of TAC under the 200TTSX. Took several bears with that load, DRT. Don't know that an additional 2-300fps would have made any difference.

That load should work very well in your rifle. Can't imagine anything would not be DRT at that range. Heck of a good load for a 358!

52.0gr TAC with the 180 TTSX was clocking at 2500-fps or thereabouts from my Model 7KS....not super fast, but plenty accurate.

[quote=Whelen Nut]2450 out of a 19" tube with 48gr of TAC under the 200TTSX. Took several bears with that load, DRT. Don't know that an additional 2-300fps would have made any difference. [/quote)

What distance and how well did the bullets open up? Everything I hear about the TTSX or TSX is the faster you run them the better they work. The higher velocity should get them to open up better at further distances then. I have only killed a Caribou and a elk and an antelope with TTSX's from my .338 WM. 225g running ~2800 fps. It did an ok job on the caribou at 400 yards, but shot placement was bad so had to shoot again. The elk at 70 yards and the antelope at 250 didn't need another.

Not to side track this thread but......

I have 200 WW 358 win cases I'm going to sell. 100 are virgin, 100 once fired. If anyone has interest before I list them, drop my a PM.

Bought them for my 338 Fed and decided to go with necked up 308 brass in my rifle.

I understand the high velocity theory with regard to the TTSX's. If I think I might have a shot over 150yds, I carry a Whelen, 300WSM, 270 or 6.5CM. So I'm not really concerned about the TTSX opening up at longer ranges. Shots at bears around here are always 40-50yds max. The TTSX performed as expected and didn't make a mess of the shoulders. Which is another reason why I like them.

Thank you

That is weird. I switched to the 300gr TSX in my muzzleloader this year for deer and noticed the same thing. They flip over backwards and die, but when I skinned them there was much less damage than I expected.

i started shooting the TTSX's a few years ago in a couple other calibers, noticed the same thing...they cut a mean hole you can see daylight through, good expansion, but less bloodshot meat...

Details on that?! Cartridge, bullet, velocity

Wowza.......

I'll guess a 358 cal. 200gr TTSX around 2700 fps, those are the holes I spoke of earlier, I've seen plenty, and they never fail to impress.

My BLR liked H4895, I didn’t try TAC in it.

My 700 also liked H4895, I didn’t measure velocity. I switched to TAC after re-reading MD’s article same accuracy between the two. I suspect higher velocity. Maybe when the merry little breezes blow from the south a while I can get some velocity readings. Snow is as high as 10’ in my yard/range.

There’s been a few different articles on the 358 in Handloader/Rifle over the years. None included the rifles I have/had. But MD’s article was with a Ruger 77, which is the rifle that seems the best fit for my rifles.