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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 510
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
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Remember, this is the state that has a "muzzleoader season" but still limits you to using a flintlock. That's the first thing I've read about your state that made any sense. Dave Agree 100%.
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 8,109
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2016
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research before I built mine, showed guys shooting bowling pins at 400yds all day long. one mentioned he missed and hit an Aspen, and had a measured penetration of 9" of solid wood at that range. the .450bushmaster was designed from the start for all large game in north America.
money is always tight with me. (single income/medical issues). my intent was one rifle for anything I need to shoot, and variable uppers later, as the need arises.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Fairly sure my 223 rounds with Barnes would get the same penetration.
I'm still not sold on big AR rounds for anything other than bigger game. For deer it simply has not made any difference in recovery distances.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,514
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,514 |
Sounds like 223 is the way to go. Any recommendations on a decent middle of the road rifle(read inexpensive but decent, if such a thing exists). I won't use it enough to justify spending a ton, just need something reliable and accurate. Mainly be used for predators and varmints, with deer mixed in sporadically
Oh, and believe it or not, deer bite. Fairly hard.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
Windham bushwacker, Rock river not for me, DD M4V11 is a good do all gun.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,810
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
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[quote=fellas2] Remember, this is the state that has a "muzzleoader season" but still limits you to using a flintlock. And STILL you cant hunt on Sunday.....
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Jimmy doesn't care for RRA. I've won things at major matches with RRA components. YMMV.
For me, asking about cheap for occasional use, that reads buy a cheap colt when on sale or the cheapest you can otherwise. They almost all run these days. When they don't they are pretty easy to trouble shoot. And the almost all shoot 2 inches or better at 100.... most will scare the hell out of 1 inch with the right loads.
The triggers are the worst thing on them. Unless you pay a bit more for a good trigger.
Ars, regardless of about 1000 opinions you will get, are the land of a 2 stage trigger for a safe, clean, lighter, reasonably priced replacement trigger. YMMV
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,895
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,895 |
Sounds like 223 is the way to go. Any recommendations on a decent middle of the road rifle(read inexpensive but decent, if such a thing exists). I won't use it enough to justify spending a ton, just need something reliable and accurate. Mainly be used for predators and varmints, with deer mixed in sporadically Travis's gave sound advise on this. Colt, upgrade the trigger when Rock River has one of their sales. President's day is coming up, so you might be able to find them for a good price then. If you want to customize it, get one of the OEM models and pick the furniture you like. Won't win you any matches, reliable, and will retain it's resell value. If you get bit by the AR tinkertoy bug, you're starting with good parts.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,900
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
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Before you jump the gun, i spoke with out state representative at our local sportsman's club meeting a couple weeks ago. Even though the law passed making semi autos legal for hunting in Pa, they have left it in the hands of our backward thinking Game Commission to set the regulations. As of now, no decision has been made regarding calibers, magazine capacities, and species that will be allowed. He has heard rumblings that any caliber will be allowed for predators such as coyotes and groundhogs, but will be limited to 5 shot magazines. As far as big game such as deer and bear, he feels they will have a minimum caliber (larger than 5.56/223 ) and also be limited to a 5 round clip. Remember, this is the state that has a "muzzleoader season" but still limits you to using a flintlock. Should be interesting. Odd they would consider a change to minimum caliber depending on the platform. 223 is legal right now. A deliberate attempt to exclude AR's. Sure would like to have a large stock of 5 round magazines!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Wonder how much "energy" a round ball from a flintlock has in 45 or 50 caliber, likely the minimum caliber, compared to a good bullet out of a 223...
Much less the energy of an arrow or pistol round( assuming pistol rounds are legal even)
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,900
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,900 |
Wonder how much "energy" a round ball from a flintlock has in 45 or 50 caliber, likely the minimum caliber, compared to a good bullet out of a 223...
Much less the energy of an arrow or pistol round( assuming pistol rounds are legal even) All that is specified for handguns is revolver or single shot, centerfire, expanding bullet. Muzzleloading rifles, .44, handguns, .50.
Last edited by benchman; 02/06/17.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,567
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,567 |
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Wonder how much "energy" a round ball from a flintlock has in 45 or 50 caliber, likely the minimum caliber, compared to a good bullet out of a 223...
Much less the energy of an arrow or pistol round( assuming pistol rounds are legal even) All that is specified for handguns is revolver or single shot, centerfire, expanding bullet. Muzzleloading rifles, .44, handguns, .50. That is my point, they could kick out the 223, but you could use a TC Contender in 22 hornet and meet the regs, actually if you could get a 25acp to headspace.... Worst luck I"ve had with deer over the years was 45 caplock and round balls, conicals made a lot better kills but round balls were legal, and at least used to be in some states balls were ALL that was legal... Our systems sometimes are so broken....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,132 |
Another 6.8 vote. It has proven to kill as well as my 270s for me.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,003
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,003 |
I shoot 62 grain Barnes.,I have killed a bunch of 150 to 200 lb pigs. It would kill deer easy
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Here's a simple but sincere question:
What is the draw for using an AR to hunt with?
OK, I can see it for pigs and coyotes. Maybe in dogtown, too. But for deer and other big game? That I don't get.
The AR design, which it is fine as a SHTF type armament, is bulky and far less than handy compared to a standard bolt or lever rifle.
I could see it if the AR is the only rifle a person has, but often that isn't the case. I'd much rather carry a handier, lighter rifle when hunting. Is it a case of "just because I can" kind of thing?
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2004
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Not all ARs are bulky & unhandy.
I've shot them enough that I just like them. The ergonomics are really darn good if you ever want to shoot anything other than your typical Pennsylvania deer shooting positions. I'll take an free floated AR over your typical Model 700 or Win 94 any day, every day for ergos.
We run sporter matches at a club I go to and most of your standard "sporting rifles" can not keep up, even at just 200 yards.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474 |
Valid point on why. But why not.
You have pointed out weight, and thats about my only issue with a typical AR.
We shot them in competition for MANY years...
And yet I don't take them hunting all that often.
Preferring to use dedicated hunting rigs. None of our hunting rigs have any issues at 200.... thats for sure.
OTOH there is nothing wrong with a fast backup shot. But we prefer to make the first count. And have a really bad habit of not even running the bolt after the first shot because we know that we just killed a deer with the first...
A habit I"m going to HAVE to break before we reside in AK.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,085
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 8,085 |
Here's a simple but sincere question:
What is the draw for using an AR to hunt with?
OK, I can see it for pigs and coyotes. Maybe in dogtown, too. But for deer and other big game? That I don't get.
The AR design, which it is fine as a SHTF type armament, is bulky and far less than handy compared to a standard bolt or lever rifle.
I could see it if the AR is the only rifle a person has, but often that isn't the case. I'd much rather carry a handier, lighter rifle when hunting. Is it a case of "just because I can" kind of thing?
This makes a lot of sense, many other great weapon choices available for hunting...unless you just want an AR, then buy 1. Much of Pa. is so thick or dense timber that you only get 1 shot, in those areas a dedicated semi slug gun will tear it up.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,566
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,566 |
Why switch guns to hunt different stuff?
I use an AR to hunt everything.
An AR only feels "bulky and less handy" if you are unused to handling one. Once you get that down, a conventional rifle may seem awkward.
Most everything I shoot is with an AR, and mostly killed with one, accurate, well placed shot.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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