Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR for hunting, need advice

ARs have never been legal for hunting here, but will be very shortly. That said, I'm getting one for hunting, just to have another option. The rifle will be used for deer, and predators, with some woodchucks mixed in for practice. What chambering in an AR would best suit me, and what rifle/maker would you recommend without getting exceedingly expensive. I just want a good reliable, accurate rifle to hunt with, not win matches.

I went with .450Bushmaster for that purpose. (We are required to use a straight wall cartridge.) Ohio DNR was supposed to approve it last year, but has not yet added it to the approved list for deer.
Alot of your choice will depend on how you will hunt and what range.

What's you minimum legal caliber for deer?

I'd get a Colt in .223/5.56 and set money aside for a Rock River or Ruger two-stage trigger.






Dave

6.8 SPC is a good for deer.

But it's a bottle neck cartridge.

Minimum legal caliber for deer here is any Centerfire chambering, bottleneck cartridges are fine.

Keep in mind, you are not limited to one caliber choice. Swap uppers, and you have a new rifle. That is also my intention .

Before you jump the gun, i spoke with out state representative at our local sportsman's club meeting a couple weeks ago. Even though the law passed making semi autos legal for hunting in Pa, they have left it in the hands of our backward thinking Game Commission to set the regulations. As of now, no decision has been made regarding calibers, magazine capacities, and species that will be allowed. He has heard rumblings that any caliber will be allowed for predators such as coyotes and groundhogs, but will be limited to 5 shot magazines. As far as big game such as deer and bear, he feels they will have a minimum caliber (larger than 5.56/223 ) and also be limited to a 5 round clip. Remember, this is the state that has a "muzzleoader season" but still limits you to using a flintlock.

I have a 6.8SPC and use it deer hunting. Bullet selection is key, the 85 grain Barnes TSX bullets are a bit hard in my opinion for the caliber but the do poke holes and do kill, did not get a chance to test the 95 grain TTSX this year but have a great load over benchmark, but also carried the 120 grain factory loaded SST which some have reported to be excellent choice in the lungs. Folks conjure up all kinds of magic regards this cartridge or that cartridge but in general hitting them in the shoulders with a 22 caliber 62TSX kills about the same as with a 45-70 in the same location, in your state it would depend more on what they allow you to use rather than what works.

That's the first thing I've read about your state that made any sense.




Dave

223 will kill anything on your list.

Beyond that its up to you and the rules.

I bought a 50 beowulf to be impressed. I'm very much so NOT impressed. I see as quick or quicker kills with 223...

I'm happy we have it as its new lease on life will be hard cast lead for bear protection, but beyond that, its a toy, and not needed when there are 223s around.

Anything more is up to you.

Here's a few other pearls of wisdom from our great game commission:

No hunting on Sunday

In SE pa and we have an extended deer season. During the extended season which starts 12/26 you can hunt with a flintlock, archery, shotgun or an inline muzzleloader. BUT if you're hunting with a shotgun or an inline you can only shoot does. With a flintlock or archery bucks and does are legal.

I vote 6.8 SPC if your wanting to do a 16" hunting rifle.

Ive been using one since 2009 for deer, coyotes, hogs, varmints and every other kinda hunting.
I killed a bunch of the above with the 120gr SST. Now i switched to the 105gr Cavity Back Bullets for hogs and deer, 120gr SST for everything else.

Before i got the 6.8 i killed alot of the above with a 223 AR using 75 and 77gr match bullets.

Hunting and blasting, go 223.
Dedicated hunting rig go 6.8.

I'm building a 450 Bushmaster right now.

The ballistics mirror the 444 Marlin except you've got that power in an AR-15. It's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot.

Do some reading in this forum and see what you think.

450 Bushmaster Forum

Dan

Compare the weight of a smith and Wesson as 10 and then compare it to an as 15. Not much difference in my opinion. I'm in the same state as you and am building an 18 inch 223 wylde. A good 60 to 75 grain soft point out of a 556 chamber is no joke out to 200 yards.

Works well past 200 too.. quite a bit past like as in just over 550 for me so far...

Already passed by the PGC at the preliminary meeting, legal for everything. Deer Bear, Elk, fall turkey, small game, predators, etc., just needs final approval in April, which it will get. No jumping the gun here.

Also, the late season isn't a "muzzle loader season", it's a primitive weapons flintlock and late archery season. There is a "muzzle loader season" in October. Use whatever you want. Flint, inline, scoped, etc.

Not really that hard to figure out. The late season for bucks and does with flintlock or archery gear is a statewide primitive season. The extended season is about herd reduction in areas that need it. Does are what controls the population. Open it up to more weapons, more does get killed, herd reductions happens. Simple

So why use late season for herd reduction and at the same time reduce antlerless allocations ? With the flintock season, it's impossible to control the harvest in WMU's individually whereas with antlerless allocations at least give them some control.

6.8 spc or 6.5 Grendel, buy a 223/5.56 upper for varmints or deer also and go kill stuff.

Agree 100%.

research before I built mine, showed guys shooting bowling pins at 400yds all day long. one mentioned he missed and hit an Aspen, and had a measured penetration of 9" of solid wood at that range. the .450bushmaster was designed from the start for all large game in north America.
money is always tight with me. (single income/medical issues). my intent was one rifle for anything I need to shoot, and variable uppers later, as the need arises.

Fairly sure my 223 rounds with Barnes would get the same penetration.

I'm still not sold on big AR rounds for anything other than bigger game. For deer it simply has not made any difference in recovery distances.

Sounds like 223 is the way to go. Any recommendations on a decent middle of the road rifle(read inexpensive but decent, if such a thing exists). I won't use it enough to justify spending a ton, just need something reliable and accurate. Mainly be used for predators and varmints, with deer mixed in sporadically

Windham bushwacker, Rock river not for me, DD M4V11 is a good do all gun.

And STILL you cant hunt on Sunday.....

Jimmy doesn't care for RRA. I've won things at major matches with RRA components. YMMV.

For me, asking about cheap for occasional use, that reads buy a cheap colt when on sale or the cheapest you can otherwise. They almost all run these days. When they don't they are pretty easy to trouble shoot. And the almost all shoot 2 inches or better at 100.... most will scare the hell out of 1 inch with the right loads.

The triggers are the worst thing on them. Unless you pay a bit more for a good trigger.

Ars, regardless of about 1000 opinions you will get, are the land of a 2 stage trigger for a safe, clean, lighter, reasonably priced replacement trigger. YMMV

Travis's gave sound advise on this.

Colt, upgrade the trigger when Rock River has one of their sales. President's day is coming up, so you might be able to find them for a good price then.

If you want to customize it, get one of the OEM models and pick the furniture you like.

Won't win you any matches, reliable, and will retain it's resell value.

If you get bit by the AR tinkertoy bug, you're starting with good parts.

Should be interesting. Odd they would consider a change to minimum caliber depending on the platform. 223 is legal right now. A deliberate attempt to exclude AR's. Sure would like to have a large stock of 5 round magazines!

Wonder how much "energy" a round ball from a flintlock has in 45 or 50 caliber, likely the minimum caliber, compared to a good bullet out of a 223...

Much less the energy of an arrow or pistol round( assuming pistol rounds are legal even)

All that is specified for handguns is revolver or single shot, centerfire, expanding bullet. Muzzleloading rifles, .44, handguns, .50.

i'd go with a 16in 6.8.

That is my point, they could kick out the 223, but you could use a TC Contender in 22 hornet and meet the regs, actually if you could get a 25acp to headspace....

Worst luck I"ve had with deer over the years was 45 caplock and round balls, conicals made a lot better kills but round balls were legal, and at least used to be in some states balls were ALL that was legal...

Our systems sometimes are so broken....

Another 6.8 vote. It has proven to kill as well as my 270s for me.

I shoot 62 grain Barnes.,I have killed a bunch of 150 to 200 lb pigs. It would kill deer easy

Here's a simple but sincere question:

What is the draw for using an AR to hunt with?

OK, I can see it for pigs and coyotes. Maybe in dogtown, too. But for deer and other big game? That I don't get.

The AR design, which it is fine as a SHTF type armament, is bulky and far less than handy compared to a standard bolt or lever rifle.

I could see it if the AR is the only rifle a person has, but often that isn't the case. I'd much rather carry a handier, lighter rifle when hunting. Is it a case of "just because I can" kind of thing?

Not all ARs are bulky & unhandy.

I've shot them enough that I just like them. The ergonomics are really darn good if you ever want to shoot anything other than your typical Pennsylvania deer shooting positions. I'll take an free floated AR over your typical Model 700 or Win 94 any day, every day for ergos.

We run sporter matches at a club I go to and most of your standard "sporting rifles" can not keep up, even at just 200 yards.

Valid point on why. But why not.

You have pointed out weight, and thats about my only issue with a typical AR.

We shot them in competition for MANY years...

And yet I don't take them hunting all that often.

Preferring to use dedicated hunting rigs. None of our hunting rigs have any issues at 200.... thats for sure.

OTOH there is nothing wrong with a fast backup shot. But we prefer to make the first count. And have a really bad habit of not even running the bolt after the first shot because we know that we just killed a deer with the first...
A habit I"m going to HAVE to break before we reside in AK.

This makes a lot of sense, many other great weapon choices available for hunting...unless you just want an AR, then buy 1. Much of Pa. is so thick or dense timber that you only get 1 shot, in those areas a dedicated semi slug gun will tear it up.

Why switch guns to hunt different stuff?

I use an AR to hunt everything.

An AR only feels "bulky and less handy" if you are unused to handling one. Once you get that down, a conventional rifle may seem awkward.

Most everything I shoot is with an AR, and mostly killed with one, accurate, well placed shot.

Pa's regs are the issue, with a 5 shot maximum capacity & certain calibers not legal in many areas(shotgun/slug only)..the advantages of the AR are eliminated, along with not having pigs that need slaughtered the uses for hunting become limited.

I think many like hunting with AR's because there are so many elected officials that don't want any of us to own one. It's kinda like sticking our finger in their eye by hunting with one being that most of these elected officials publically state that AR's are not hunting rifles.

The other thing is that we have so many Veterans out there whose lives depended on the M4-M16 platform that it's so natural for them to carry an AR into the field, much like our elders came back from WW1 and dropped their lever actions and started hunting with bolt guns. Evolution.

Dan

It sounds like you've just never held a slim and light AR. They don't have to be bulky or heavy; that's for people who don't know any better IMO. In my experience as easy to build a 5.5-6 lb AR as a more traditional hunting rifle of the same weight.

For example, the AR pictured below delivers the same ballistics as a 35 Remington in a Marlin 336. However, this AR is shorter, slimmer, and lighter than a 336, and many bolt guns too for that matter. In my opinion it carries easier, even though a 336 or 94 carries well, and at less than 6.5 lb, it's 1-1.5 lb lighter than an iron sighted 336 or many bolt guns. Of course, this AR could be any AR caliber you want without changing the weight significantly.

YMMV of course, this is just one example of many.

A 6.8 SPC wouldn't be bad that light but I wouldn't want to shoot something like that in 450 Bushmaster. Weight is your friend with that beast.

Dan

LOL yeah even that 358 Herrett jumps around more than you'd expect for an AR, but is still easier to shoot than a heavier Marlin 336 with the same ballistics. My 30 cal version or a 6.8 or 6.5 are a lot milder.

There's always brakes though if you need them, and plenty of guys shoot heavy calibers in light bolt guns too. Just because you can have a larger caliber light 450 Bushmaster doesn't mean all ARs need to be heavy.

The caliber isn't the point though; the comment was about the size and bulkiness of the gun.

I understand the first part and have considered hunting WY antelope with mine for just that reason.

The second part I understand to a degree but no one can convince me the AR's are not bulky and less handy than a svelte bolt rifle or lever gun.

My AR is .450Bushmaster. Not to worry. Shift two pins, it will be 5.56 One rifle, a wide variety of possibilities. It is the LEGO of rifles.

Colorado has a minimum .243"/6mm caliber for big game so a 223 or 5.56 isn't viable unless I go out of state. My .300 Blackout makes the cut - but barely due to the requirements for 1,000 foot-pounds energy at 100 yards. The .308 AR I'm building would a make the cut in a walk but it will definitely be heavier and bulkier ad less handy than my bolt and lever rifles.

Just my opinion but even a light AR is bulkier and less handy than my bolt and lever guns. Let me correct that to "most of my bolt and lever guns", to exclude my long, heavy-barreled target/varmint rifles.

Not trying to knock ARs and, as I mentioned in my last post, I've been thinking about hunting WY antelope with my .223/5.56 RRA - in spite of the fact I have better options in my safe. Why do it? Because I can and because so many lawmakers would take my ARs (along with all my other firearms, for that matter) if they could.

Why hunt with an AR?

I mostly hunt coyotes but I've taken a few deer with them too. Funny thing though that I'm pretty comfortable with one yet this year I've been carrying my Kimber Montana for deer and coyotes.

I did use an AR back during labor day to kill a few coyotes just to show a guy on another forum that they do indeed work. Wound up getting banned but I knew I would so it was worth it.

As to why I use one when I do, because I can and that should be all the reason I need.

Caliber is irrelevant to the size of an AR15. Yeah an AR10 is bigger, but that wasn't the original question.

I just showed you a rifle that is slimmer, shorter, and lighter than your lever gun, but "nobody can convince you"? OK... I guess that was a waste of time, no sense explaining to someone who clings to an opinion in the face of solid evidence.

The "slimmer, shorter, and lighter"you showed isn't necessarily any of those things. My Browning B92 comes in at about 5.6 pounds and is definitely slimmer than my AR15's. Even with it's 20" barrel it can't be much different in length. My .308 Ruger Scout comes in t bout 6.25 pounds with its 16.5" barrel and, as do most of my bolt and lever guns, will match the width of an AR so closely that I'm not sure which actually measures the thinnest width at the widest part.

Width and weight, though, are only part of the story. When it comes to "handiness" I'll take a well sculpted and balanced bolt or lever any day. Often I'll carry mine with my hand wrapped around the receiver. Hard to do that with an AR even with a 5-round mag.

If you find AR rifles more comfy to carry and handle, good for you. I don't.

Then why come to this section of the 'Fire, if you don't want to learn anything, and dispute everything that anyone says?

It sounds like you just came here to bitch and show everyone how much you dislike AR's.

You are right about some of us using what we want to use.

Thank God we still still have that Freedom in America.

My 20" H-bar .223 weighs in at 9 pounds with scope. I don't especially like carrying it all day in the woods, but it's not a deal breaker. While I have plenty of more enjoyable rifles to carry, I like taking this one out occasionally. Why? For the helluvit, because I like going against public/gov't opinion, because I can, and I kinda like the spiteful little beast. Will it replace my classic favorites? Not on your life- it merely adds another dimension to the hobby.

I've been tempted to get a three-point harness that'll allow carrying it across my chest. I haven't because I don't want to look like a 64 year old tactical wannabe out in the woods. Silly, I know, but we all have our quirks.

Like i said above, I use 6.8 for almost everything.
I always run a suppressor and everywhere we hunt there are hogs. So i also carry a few magazines just incase.
Ive got several light weight bolt actions but the barrels are to thin to thread and i dont hunt or shoot much without a suppressor.
If i hunt on the farm i always take my 300WM bolt action but i still keep my 6.8 with me incase i need it. If you have never had 20+ hogs walk out on you, then you will never understand.

Last march i killed 22 out of 24 of the hogs and still had 2 rounds in my 25rd magazine. The next week i killed 18 out of 25ish hogs and burnt over 40 rounds.

Where do you pick up those 25 round magazines?

That sounds like fun! No pigs up here, good for the farmers but sad for the shooters.

rockinbar, I can't speak for nonnieselman but I have a few 25 (or 27?) rd 6.8 mags; IIRC they are D&H brand from PSA for @ $10 each on sale. I like the ACS stainless mags better though, as they allow longer OAL.

PRI 25 round $37 out of stock now. Good magazines

I take it they are only 6.8 mags?

I might be a player for a 25 rounder in .223/5.56, as the 30's are just too long to be handy.

I prefer 20 rd Pmags in 5.56 for the same reason. Have a bunch of 30's but rarely use them. The 20's protrude the about same length as the grip.

You need to check your premises. The fact that I find tool ‘A’ better suited to task ‘X’ doesn’t mean I dislike tool ‘B’ and wouldn’t find ‘B’ better suited to other tasks. The fact is I LIKE AR rifles for a variety of reasons, which is why I have two, with a third being built, and have bought ARs for my daughters.

I asked why people choose to hunt with AR type rifles because I wanted to learn and I’m certainly not disputing ‘everything that anyone says’. That said, opinions are not facts and when someone gets the facts wrong or states an opinion as fact it obfuscates the truth.

Yondering posted a pic of an AR and claimed it was ‘slimmer, shorter, and lighter’ than my levergun. Well, no. My B92 lever is slimmer than any AR I’ve seen, more than a full pound lighter than Yondering’s AR and only about 1.5” longer than an AR with a 16” barrel. My .308 Ruger Scout bolt rifle is almost 7 ounces lighter than Yondering’s AR and only an inch longer. Never mind that I was talking about ‘svelte’ bolt rifles and leverguns, not necessarily just my own. A Remington Model 7 with a 20” barrel comes in at just 3” longer and almost 3 ounces lighter. Ruger Compacts come in about half an inch shorter and almost a pound lighter. Those are facts, not opinions. That I’d rather hunt big game with any of them than an AR is an opinion. As stated earlier, if hunting pigs or varmints I might prefer an AR.

There are more factors contributing to the handiness of a rifle than slimness, weight and length. Balance and ergonomics play a big role as well and they are often more important than minor differences in the others. The ‘handiness’ of a rifle is inevitably an opinion based on considering the various factors and coming to a decision based on personal priorities. Yondering thinks ARs are handier than ‘svelte bolt rifles and leverguns’. Good for him and I hope he enjoys using ARs throughout a long and happy life. But that is his opinion, not a universal fact.

Yes, thank God we still have the freedom to choose the tools we prefer.

I didn't say that; you're putting words in my mouth and adding details after the fact to support your emotional position. You said:

"The AR design ... is bulky and far less than handy compared to a standard bolt or lever rifle."

It sounds like you asked a question to prove a point and validate your opinion, rather than learn something. If I'd known that initially, I wouldn't have bothered responding, but will remember in the future that you're one of those guys.


As I pointed out an AR can be as slim and light as most lever guns or bolt action hunting rifles, and that is partly why some people enjoy hunting with them. No reason to turn that into a dick measuring contest other than to stroke your ego.

You cherry picking specific lightweight guns to compare doesn't prove anything or back up your statement, if you want to do that, lets compare to a sub-4 lb AR.

What I said was this:

"... no one can convince me the AR's are not bulky and less handy than a svelte bolt rifle or lever gun."

To which you replied this:



I didn’t put words in your mouth, I just responded to what you wrote.

You say I am “cherry picking specific lightweight guns for comparison”. It is true I picked two of my rifles that are lighter and handier (to me) than any AR I’ve handled. I left out my .22” barreled 243 Win Savage FXP3, which the factory says comes in at 6.5 pounds, as does the Savage Axis. Ruger American rifles come in at 6.2 to 6.3 pounds. A Kimber Mountain starts at 4 pounds 13 ounces with a 22” barrel.

When it comes to “slim” you and I obviously have different definitions. The height of an AR, even with a 5 round mag, far exceeds any hunting rifle I own and it is primarily that height that – IMHO – makes it bulky.


Edited to add:

I would like to see a sub-4 pound AR rifle but it would still be bulky.

The 25 round 6.8 mags are the same body length as the 30 round 5.56, the bigger 6.8 case takes up a bit more space in the magazine.

A twenty round 5.56 length magazine is usually limited to 15-17 in 6.8 rounds.

If it were me looking for something in an all around AR for hunting both large game and small game, it would be in a 6.5 Creedmoor. If just plinking and shooting varmints, it would be in a .223/5.56. You really can't go wrong with something in the Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag arena.


With all of this stated, I have tried to like an AR for hunting. About the only time it makes sense for me is coyote hunting where you may need a fast follow-up shot. I just cannot get used to the ergonomics of an AR no matter the configuration. I like using a gun boot on a 4-wheeler and that's not happening with an AR. Also, they are harder to master with regards to shot follow-through with all of the moving parts.

Lastly, I absolutely hate cleaning them as you have the upper, lower and BCG that needs cleaning. This is more of a process than just pulling a bolt and cleaning a barrel and wiping the bolt down.

I hate cleaning mine too so I don't but about once every 500 rounds or so.

Oh and I don't clean my bolt guns or my M&P pistols anymore often either.

Cleaning is not a reason but more like an excuse to not like an AR.

Agreed. Having taken a few running shots at coyotes with a semi-auto .22LR, I'd much rather have a semi .223 for that kind of work.



Pretty much agreed there, too, although 'dislike' is more appropriate for me. Cleaning ARs is like cleaning semi-auto pistols - much more work than a bolt rifle.

I would like to have an AR 10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. I have a RRA in 308. They make a 6.5 upper now. It should be great for deer out to 300 yes.

I catch a lot of crap for saying " I'll never buy a damn AR""

I have a couple now. I like to shoot them. Wifey does too!!

i have 4 .458 caliber rifles at the moment.a springfield trapdoor that i have had for 52 years, a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 that i hunted for years after elk, deer , and bear.
next is a siamese mauser that i load for t-rex's just for shizz and giggles, then my AR15 458 socom.
guess which i grab the most in the last few years for deer and elk or bear? the AR. i find it handier then the other three and it just has a cool factor when the warden checks my licence.
i have AR's from 22mag to the 458 including 762x39 and find them all super handy especially with a 1point sling.
just me.

Yep, the 20rd PMag is my favorite all around .223/5.56 mag. It's short enough to go prone or off the bench without getting in the way and it still holds enough ammo to keep me from reloading for awhile. And they fit nicely in the back pocket as well.

CH,

The AR is the dominant gun in 3 Gun competitions and the AR looks pretty handy in the hands of a top 3 gunner.

AR do feel different than conventional rifles but the design is very ergonomic.

"Handy" is a personal determination and 3 Gun competitions have about as much to do with my style of hunting as day does with night.

If attacked by a sounder of hogs I'd rather have an AR in my hands with a full 30-round mag than one of my bolt rifles. That doesn't mean I would consider the AR 'handy', it just means I recognize that a high rate of fire and lots of ammo might save my life.

For big game give me a bolt or lever any day.

Action rifle shooting is the best test of how a rifle handles.

There are reasons why the ergonomics of the AR dominate the game.

You might not need quick handling in your hunting but if you ever enter a competition that is timed and objectively scored the ergos of the AR will be your friend.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. When hunting big game I've never needed fast reloads, high cap mags or high cyclic rates. ARs do some things very well but my hands much prefer the ergos of a svelte bolt or lever gun for big game hunting purposes. In my opinion - and you are welcome to your own - they carry better and handle and mount more naturally. They are also measurably less bulky, with about half the waist in the magazine area and no grip sticking out.



Again, the demands of 3 Gun competitions have very little to do with the realities of my big game hunting needs and preferences. As stated before, I don't dislike ARs and in fact have two, a .223/5.56 and a .300BLK with a .308 in the build process and have purchased ARs for my daughters. They have good ergos for what they are but 'svelte' isn't a word I would apply to them.

I'm a handgun hunter primarily,but have taken plenty game with a rifle over the years also. Last year I finally built me a 6.8 with a 16" barrel after wanting to for years. I shot a nice 10pt. Whitetail buck and a doe also last season in KY. First big game I've taken with a AR, and I have to say it was very enjoyable to pack around for the 5 or 6 days it took to take those two animals.
The only other rifle/carbine that has compared to it, as of ease of carry, was a Marlin 16" 1894P .44mag. I used to own. When you can carry a lightweight rifle by the grip and dangle it along side your leg, and still have the muzzle 8-12" off the ground, that's a plus to me. And I'm 5'-6"!😄

I just got 130 grain bullets to shoot in my 6.8! 10 shots went into 2 inches using hornady brass, 23 grains of RL7. Methinks I might add another .5 grain and shoot again! No one can argue a 130 grain bullet at 2200FPS under 150 yards. I have 250 Nosler flat base bullets I bought as seconds many moons ago. I am going to shoot the crap out of them and kill a few deer with them in October.

I haven't killed any deer with s 223 AR, but the 62 grain Barnes kill cshit out of pigs. I think it will kill deer easy.

Yes the 62 TSX kills deer just fine, in fact I wouldn't be afraid to go after anything with it.

I have 3 Kimber Montana's, have had Remington Mountain rifles as well as their heavy barreled rifles and more than a few sporters. I was calling coyote this weekend with one of my AR's and was reminded that nothing I have ever owned is as comfortable to use than a well built carbine.

If someone doesn't like them, then use something else but I like em just fine.

I never thought I would ever own one ,but I purchased one when I thought they were going to be banned. I'm glad I did, lots of fun.

If you look back in history, all the rifles used today for hunting came from military design. Why would the AR be anything different? Seems natural.

As true as that is, the original military designs have been refined for hunting because the needs are very different.

Kind of like how race car design helped define the modern automobile and military aircraft helped define the modern passenger aircraft.

Today you see more and more bolt action "AR" rifles intended for target and hunting rather than combat. The bolt versions are no more handy than their auto-load cousins but they do have advantages for their intended use.

Dunno, I"ve killed a lot of stuff with irons on an AR upper....

And todays combat ARs run glass...

Understand that. I've done the same with irons on bolts and levers.

I would feel very undergunned going into combat with a bolt gun and 3 or 4 in a blind mag and perfectly fine taking the same rifle on a big game hunt.

Glass topped or irons, my first choice for combat would be an autoloader with a high-capacity mag. That same rifle and mag would be my last choice for a big game hunt and illegal in many if not most or all states.

Which reminds me - I need to get 5-round mags for my two AR15s and AR10. Might take them hunting one of these days just to piss off the snowflakes.

I couldn't care less what pisses of the snowflakes, or doesn't.

You don't have to hunt with an AR to piss them off though. Hunting with anything does that.

Just figured I'd update this old thread for you guys. I ended up picking up an unfired 6.5 Grendel build on the cheap as the original buyer decided he didn't want it after it was built. So, need to source some ammo/components/dies get a scope mounted, and test it out.