Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Any Winchester M-12 experts here?

Looking at a Pigeon grade trap and have some questions. Want to make sure it is what I think it is. And maybe some general questions

I'll try.

This gun, 1957, does not have a duck bill rib. Is that normal? Gun also has a Morgan pad that the seller is saying came from Winchester. Is that possible? Im thinkin not but he said he knew the guy who bought it new, its a 2 owner gun.

Should it be marked "Trap" anyplace?

May be worth a look:

http://homesteadfirearms.com/appraisals/12winShotgun/12win-model-configurations.htm

Unless he can prove it came with a Morgan it didn't.

Forgot, it should have the little engraved "pigeon" on the underside. "Trap", I'm not sure, but think not. A google search of for sale pics should answer that question.

Yes, its got the Pigeon and I do feel its a legit Pigeon grade but there are a zillion fakes out there. The current owner has all the history on the gun and so far I feel he's honest. Trust but verify, right..

Proof marks are all in the right place too

Make sure the little standing pigeon on the receiver extension is present. Make sure the serial number on the extension and on the receiver match. I do not think any came with a morgan from the factory. Duckbill may or may not meany anything. Never saw one marked trap. Skeet guns came with barrels marked WS-1. Should have a rib with oval posts. Should NOT have Simmons Gun Specialties on the rib.

Thanks Miles58, has everything you said. I should add that the seller is calling it a "pigeon grade" not a "trap" pigeon grade. I added that because its in a trap formatt, 30 inch full.

a 1957 rib should be a round post minus the donut.
the check pattern on a pigeon differs from a standard trap. the grip should have a little zig zag on top.
morgan pads never came from Winchester. your gun should have a solid red Winchester pad.

Its exactly as you describe bobski. I agree I think the first owner added the morgan pad. Were Morgan pads around in the late 50's?

Personally I love all Model 12s. Some of the "custom" jobs made in the 50s-70s are spectacularly nice shooters. I like hunting with a long, high stock. I have one, I found it in a Cabelas with a thumb hole stock and decided that the rest of it was in such nice shape someone needed to remove that abomination from it. Took a year or so to find just the right stock for it. Makes a nice grouse gun now, even with the Mod barrel. I've built a couple out of parts. My current grouse gun is a built from parts gun. 16 gauge, solid rib WS-1 barrel, about the last of the Herters wood, a very chocolatey piece of figured walnut and a nice piece of chocolatey walnut in front.

The only thing I really cannot abide is those poly chokes and Cutts on the front. They belong on something else completely useless like a bolt action shotgun.

not to my knowledge.........

did you know cutts became popular after ww2? guys who used thompsons with them, wanted them on their shotguns.

Didn't know that, but doesn't surprise me. Thompsons are kind of wretched little beasts too. Shot 'em a few times back when I was vacationing in exotic places. Oddly in conjunction with this thread, I chose M-12s as a tool over the Thompson.

Sorry I'm late but when it comes to Model 12's, Trap and Skeet are grades not chokes. A WS1, for example does not make it a skeet gun nor does a 30" full choke barrel with a high comb stock make it a trap gun. The bottom of the receiver or receiver extension will be marked according to the grade.