Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Do I have to compromise on a scope?

I used to leave the stand in the dark and heard shots from the house almost every night. Let me go thru another season before I have final thoughts on the matter. It didn't matter to me the stuff hung around my neck and on the rifle didn't care what time it was.

Then you must make a serious compromise.

Try a 42mm nxs compact. If that doesn't work due to weight or sight a scope isn't your problem.

I know. It's a real shame everyone didn't have enough sense to know when "dark" was.

We still hear shots way late around where we hunt too.

20.5oz. She is compact and chunky.

Worry more about 3.5 lbs on your ass than 3.5 oz on your scope.

I was never a big objective fan but after I got the Zeiss HD5 3-15x50 smaller objectives don't look nearly as bright and the extra magnification has come in handy too, particularly for elk in Colorado.

Go bigger on the objective with good glass and lug a few extra ounces up the hill.

RAAK,

I understand the dilemma.

I bought a Leupo 6x42 after playing cat & mouse with mule deer in the dark timber ribbons along the breaks of the Snake River one season. My previous scope didn't allow me to see the bucks after sunset. I'd locate them in my binos, then raise my rifle only to find that they had moved and couldn't locate them in the scope! This went on for what seemed like forever, while we moved thru the underbrush. Switching from rifle scope to binos wasn't ideal. It happened numerous times and was frustrating. Those timber patches were dark, even though most of the hillsides were wide open.

Overall, I was pretty happy with the Leupo 6x42. JB has stated that it does well in his low light test. I've always assumed that being a fixed-power scope it has fewer lenses than a variable. One day I was at the Leupold facility and asked one of the techs if this was true. He said it did have fewer lenses... two fewer. This should help light transmission, I think.

What I soon discovered, however, was that the Leupo 6x42 was "brighter" than my previous scope but still no match for even my modest 7x36 binos. I could see things in my 7x binos that I couldn't with my 6x scope. So, I think my point is that exit pupil is a good thumb rule but I would use it with a scoop of salt. A fixed-power scope has fewer internal lenses, but exit pupil doesn't take this into account. And even with variable power scopes, they can use a different number of lenses for a given configuration (power and obj. size)

The "brightest" scope I've owned was a 2-7x Kahles. I think the quality of lenses was a factor, but am not an optical engineer so don't know for sure. So that is another factor.

At any rate, I don't think you're crazy for trying to find a scope that works well in low light. I'm not the most experienced or successful hunter, but fully understand what you are asking about. I suspect that these sorts of scenarios are rare for some regions. Dark timber, coastal rainforest, steep eastern slopes, etc. can be extremely dark. Or maybe some Alabama jungle.

Jason

Thanks Jason. It's really frustrating especially when I like everything else about the scope. I may still be a little crazy though

[quote=specneeds]I was never a big objective fan but after I got the Zeiss HD5 3-15x50 smaller objectives don't look nearly as bright and the extra magnification has come in handy too, particularly for elk in Colorado.

Go bigger on the objective with good glass and lug a few extra ounces up the hill

I wouldn't mind the big objective as much as the weight. The rifle weighs 4lb 13oz bare so I'm afraid that with too much scope it will want to run top down all the time.

An extra 8 or 10 ounces added to your 5lb gun will probably make it point and shoot better......my goal is to be exhausted coming off the hill on an elk hunt with 60-80 lbs on my back. A few ounces might help you get that tired too. For my part I'll take 5 or 10 lbs off the midsection to make up for the heavier rifle.

I used a Leupo 6x42 on at least 6 rifles and was happy with it for the most part. But, it didn't really work for the last 30 minutes of legal hunting in the worst areas with thick dark canyons and timber. These areas get dark well before the sun sets.

I had similar issues with my dirt bikes as these hell holes would be so dark you'd want a headlight, with the sun still high in the sky

With a high quality variable you can basically tune the scope to your eyeball as the light drops via changes in magnification. There's all the science of it, then there's what works for YOU. Given your budget and desire to keep things light I'd be looking at the Euro Alphas in the 2-10x42 or 50mm range. Or maybe one of them newfangled jobbies with the high zoom ratios, though I tend to distrust high zoom ratio scopes on principal.

I'd bet money you'd have killed that buck with a "lowly" 3-9x40 Conquest with the great glass, blue-white color balance, and nice visible etched Z-Plex reticle. That stuff adds up. I like Leupold scopes in a few ways but in really low light I have yet to be wowed. YMMV.

Good luck, and please report back on what you buy so we can argue like ninnies about it.

Ever use one or just read product descriptions? You want a good do all scope get a good one don't fret over 5 or 6 ounces.

I have never used one, I have just read the product descriptions. All I have to go by are the descriptions, pictures, and reviews. I'm sure it is a nice scope. I would like to try one on my Scar 17 but it isn't right for the Kimber. If I was going to put a scope that heavy on there it would be a FFP S&B.

Thank you Jeff O. I think that is the way I am going. The Z6 1.7-10x42 BT reticle #4 is the closest I have found with the least compromises (30mm). I would like to compare a Kahles and a Z6 to be sure but with the Kahles there are more compromises to be made. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the Swarovski Z6 #4 (not 4a) or the plex reticles. I have been playing with the Swarovski subtension program but i think it's acting crazy. Thanks again

The exit pupil thing gets way too much play here, it's a gross oversimplification of how things work. Magnification comes into play also, you'll be able to resolve a lot more detail with a 10X scope than a 6X given equal glass and comparable exit pupils.

I'm not a fan of the 6X fad on here, at least not for where I hunt. It might work for the western states but I want more magnification for when the light gets low here in the south where our deer show at last light. The magnification is for resolution, not long range. My deer rifle is a pretty light custom built on a borden alpine action and I use a meopta 3-12x56 on it. It might look a little out of place but it's gotten me shots in low light that I'd have never pulled off with a 6x42 leupold. I personally don't have the same aversion to 30mm scope tubes on light rifles that many do, pretty is as pretty does. It's a tool, I don't feel the need to sit and admire how "svelte" it looks.

No way I'm switching scopes in the deer stand, but I wouldn't have a problem swapping scopes for an elk hunt. The scope needs are different so swap on a lighter scope for the elk hunt and re-zero.

to the OP:

I have the same rifle, and it is a dream with a Vortex RAZOR LH HD 1.8-8x32 scope on it in lightweight talley mounts.

with sling it's 6lbs on the dot.

glass is better than your leupold, (trust me I have VX3's in 1.5-6x, 2.5-8x, and 3.5-10x) the VX-6 1-6x is pretty close to the vortex... warranty is comparable.

An exit pupil on a scope over 5 is overkill for everyone on earth, 4 is about all anyone at any age can reasonably use, I won't own a scope that doesn't have 4 at it's highest magnification. I like big exit pupils, but there is a point where your physiology can't handle any more. Anything over what your eye can open up enough to receive just gives you more room to wiggle behind the scope.

That's what I like about the "old" FFP scopes, Crow. Dial them right up for bold reticle and magnification in very low light and then back down mid-range for longer daylight shots with a finer crosshair.

Not to say that maximizing an EP isn't a bad thing cause it ain't, but if a guy spends some time (with good glass) comparing a brighter 6x42 to a 42-50mm variable cranked up to an EP of 4.5-5, you can see the advantage to the variable in detail discerned.

Not to say it would make any practical difference on a shot--am not inferring that. I wouldn't hesitate to take my Leupold 6x36 into any dark hole to hunt...it is completely adequate for getting the job done--but also because I do the hunting with a great binocular...:)