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What's up guys. My first deer season with my new rifle just wrapped up. It's a Kimber Adirondack 308 that I have done all the bedding and pre flight stuff to. It shoots great. My scope is a Leupold 6x42 heavy duplex. I killed a good buck with it at 178 yards. But, I also lost a chance at a bigger buck with it because I couldn't see it through my scope 28 min after sunset at 145 yards. I could see it through my 8x42 Mojaves just fine. Needless to say I'm putting this scope on my sons 300 blackout. I'll admit that my eyes are not great and I'm having lasic surgery this year. Ok so to the topic. I want to put the best scope I can put on it without compromising features. Our property is heavily managed and we have to be able to make sure it is 8 points and 15" wide before we shoot or else be in hot water. Something else I have thought about doing is 2 scopes for 1 rifle. Like a Leupold 3.5-10x40 VX3i with heavy duplex and cds for everything until sunset. Then I would have a Schmidt and Bender 8x56 with #4 reticle. I would have rings that I could take off and return to zero. I don't mind carrying a torque wrench to the stand with me and swap them out as needed. If I was going with one scope I have it narrowed down to a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 #4 reticle, Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x42 #4 reticle, or the Schmidt Summit. I bought this rifle to be a one gun kind of guy. Now I just need a scope to go with it. I really don't want to put a 30 mm tube scope on it but if I have to oh well. So my requirements are 1. Be able to judge a whitetail buck at 30min after sunset. 2. Keep the weight under 6lbs all up. 3. Be able to dial for shots up to 400 yards. 4. Fit in Talley lightweight lows. (Unless I go with 2 scopes). 5. Have a bold reticle like the heavy duplex or #4. I don't scan through my scope but if I see a big buck I'm judging him through my scope bc they don't stick around long. Im sorry if this is jumbled up but I'm not a great writer. Which scope would you recommend even if it's not on my list and cost is no object. Can Schmidt and Bender add a turret and bold reticle to the Summit? I have a headache after all this and I appreciate any and all feedback anyone can give me.
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Yes,everything is a compromise. Do you mean you couldn't see that buck at all through your 6X42 Leupold? They are pretty good at light transmission.Could you not see the deer or not see the reticle,or perhaps both? I would think your eyes are holding you back more than your scope. For your situation this woukld be my pick and I would learn to use the dots rather than dialing. http://www.scopelist.com/kahles-kxi-35-10x50-illuminated-4d-dot.aspxI wouldn't even consider changing scopes during a hunt. No way would I trust a return to perfect zero at longer distances. The Leica is a great low light scope too,just a little larger with 30mm tube and heavier than the Kahles. I have not compared the Leica to the Kahles. http://www.scopelist.com/leica-er-i-3-12x50-ballistic-56010-rifle-scope.aspx
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 02/16/17.
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Keep the weight under 6lbs all up. Let's start here and the need to have a stand rifle at this desired weight. Unless the answer is "it's just what I want" - then that's good enough for me.  Understanding the above will likely net you more considerations. And I'd get the two-scope thing "ought-yer-head" right now. *grins*
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I can't not imagine taking two scopes to a stand and switch out as light fades. To each his own though.
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IMO if you can't see the deer with the 6x42 it's either too dark to shoot or it's your eyes. If you can't see the reticle to shoot then that another problem. When it gets to that point with the scope I'm hunting with at that time it's too dark to shoot no matter what the legal shooting hours are (my self imposed hunting limits and ethics).
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
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What's up guys. My first deer season with my new rifle just wrapped up. It's a Kimber Adirondack 308 that I have done all the bedding and pre flight stuff to. It shoots great. My scope is a Leupold 6x42 heavy duplex. I killed a good buck with it at 178 yards. But, I also lost a chance at a bigger buck with it because I couldn't see it through my scope 28 min after sunset at 145 yards. I could see it through my 8x42 Mojaves just fine. Needless to say I'm putting this scope on my sons 300 blackout. I'll admit that my eyes are not great and I'm having lasic surgery this year. Ok so to the topic. I want to put the best scope I can put on it without compromising features. Our property is heavily managed and we have to be able to make sure it is 8 points and 15" wide before we shoot or else be in hot water. Something else I have thought about doing is 2 scopes for 1 rifle. Like a Leupold 3.5-10x40 VX3i with heavy duplex and cds for everything until sunset. Then I would have a Schmidt and Bender 8x56 with #4 reticle. I would have rings that I could take off and return to zero. I don't mind carrying a torque wrench to the stand with me and swap them out as needed. If I was going with one scope I have it narrowed down to a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44 #4 reticle, Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x42 #4 reticle, or the Schmidt Summit. I bought this rifle to be a one gun kind of guy. Now I just need a scope to go with it. I really don't want to put a 30 mm tube scope on it but if I have to oh well. So my requirements are 1. Be able to judge a whitetail buck at 30min after sunset. 2. Keep the weight under 6lbs all up. 3. Be able to dial for shots up to 400 yards. 4. Fit in Talley lightweight lows. (Unless I go with 2 scopes). 5. Have a bold reticle like the heavy duplex or #4. I don't scan through my scope but if I see a big buck I'm judging him through my scope bc they don't stick around long. Im sorry if this is jumbled up but I'm not a great writer. Which scope would you recommend even if it's not on my list and cost is no object. Can Schmidt and Bender add a turret and bold reticle to the Summit? I have a headache after all this and I appreciate any and all feedback anyone can give me. Fix your eyes first. The scope you had will do what you want, but obviously your eyes won't.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Leupold vx6 2-12x42 with firedot reticle
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Fix your eyes first. The scope you had will do what you want, but obviously your eyes won't. Don't talk him off the ledge! We are supposed to be enabling irrational spending on here. To that end I say you probably need the S&B Summit. But since you want to dial, naturally a P&M II is the logical choice.
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What was said above.
FWIW:
Your bino/scope example shows you the advantage of power. (and two eyes). But it certainly isn't as much as an advantage as you report.
Lasik may not do anything for your night vision...
S&B, as of last year, will not retrofit the Summit's reticle. Great scope--but unless it is a new one offered with the A4, I wouldn't get too excited, personally, for what you describe.
The Swaro Z3 with the 4a, will show you just as much with respect to light transmission and are lighter than the Z5. A 50mm objective is an asset for most folks depending on their age and their pupils ability to dilate. The Leica ERi 3-12x50 with the dot is heavier but has advantage over the Swaro Z3 and they are discounting them.
Bino-wise if you can hold it steady, a 10x50 may benefit you. It does me. A 5mm exit pupil is fine and that will be the case with the 50mm riflescope as well, i.e. you can probably crank it up to 10x at those distances 30 minutes after sunset.
Last edited by tomk; 02/16/17. Reason: two
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You should be determining whether to shoot a particular deer or not with binoculars, not the scope. If low light is the limiting factor then you need to optimize the exit pupil and select either an illuminated reticle or heavy post/plex reticle. High magnification in a scope usually doesn't correlate well with low light performance, so a fixed or variable that would go down to 2/3x should perform better than a fixed 6x or 8x. Trying to manage two scopes is going to cause more problems than it is going to solve.
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Whenever Ringman chimes in I'd go with that....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Campfire Ranger
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LASIK will also more than likely reduce your low light vision. It did for me...
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Defend the Constitution
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You should be determining whether to shoot a particular deer or not with binoculars, not the scope. If low light is the limiting factor then you need to optimize the exit pupil and select either an illuminated reticle or heavy post/plex reticle. High magnification in a scope usually doesn't correlate well with low light performance, so a fixed or variable that would go down to 2/3x should perform better than a fixed 6x or 8x. Trying to manage two scopes is going to cause more problems than it is going to solve. I disagree. With a 42mm objective lens a 6x scope will provide all the exit pupil that a person's eye will admit. The extra exit pupil afforded by low magnification does nothing but illuminate a ring around the outside of the aperture at the front end of the eye. Photons that don't hit the retina won't do any good. In contrast, the 6x scope will provide the benefit of the target appearing larger and it concentrates the available light into a beam that lands its illumination on the retina where it counts.
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Ok. Thanks guys. I think. Like I said I don't scan for deer with my scope. If I see a buck that is possibly a shooter the binos get put down and the gun goes up. It happens every year. Someone sees a monster but it happens so quick that he leaves and they still have binoculars in hand. I went with the 6x42 with a heavy duplex for exit pupil and a bold reticle. The two scopes thing was just a trial balloon and it's been popped. I mean can't a brother get a Schmidt and bender summit with a heavy duplex and an outdoorsman turret please. I should have said I don't care for ballistic reticles or illuminated reticles in the first post. I don't necessarily need to dial. It would be nice to be able to though. If it wasnt for the 30mm tube I would already have a Z6. That comes from the fire too. Why on earth would you want to put a big scope on such a petite rifle. I'm going to look more into the kahles 1" tube scopes. Thanks to all.
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Future thread:
"It was 28min past sunset and the Deer was at 145. I know I hit it hard, but it ran off and I couldn't find a blood trail in the dark. What......"
laissez les bons temps rouler
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If that is going to happen I'll need a better scope lol
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Most folks just use a spotlight when they need to shoot deer in the dark.
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Across the pond they use an 8x56. In Alabama its 30 min past sunset. I guess this dumb ol hick Alabama boy needs to go buy a tasco and be done with it.
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