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Lame.


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Playing devil's advocate on a long-ish shot with a crap bc bullet.

Wind starts doing crazy schidt and I'd be wishing I had something else.

My .270 load with a 130 Partition drifts 21.6" in the wind at 500 yards in a 10mph crosswind. That's enough to make me uncomfortable but I aint a seasoned rifleman so...


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I would also say the only weakness would be for a longish shot relative to other proven bullets, especially in the wind.

Some of you guys that don't hunt much out west, especially those who don't get to hunt mule deer and especially coues deer much just don't understand the shots sometimes you are forced to take (or pass) that have nothing to do with hunter skill but with terrain, cover, and the critter involved.

The choice to shoot or not and the risk factor involved is determined by the wind and the distance and the individual rifleman. Having less wind drift and a flatter trajectory reduces shot risk and increases the kill range which increases shot opportunities hunting wide open spaces. This is just a fact.

I have shot quite a few things with a Partition. It's a great bullet that will do all that 99% of us could ever need.

But for the reasons above, I shoot different bullets for where and how I hunt.


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I don't know, but does mr.Shoemaker use NP in his .458win for stopping bear in the alders?
or does he choose to trust his life to another brand?


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In 10 years of shooting AB's and PT's in a 300 WSM, I found 2 things. AB's are much more accurate in this rifle. AB's destroy a lot more meat.


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interesting observation on meat damage...

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Originally Posted by GregW
I would also say the only weakness would be for a longish shot relative to other proven bullets, especially in the wind.

Some of you guys that don't hunt much out west, especially those who don't get to hunt mule deer and especially coues deer much just don't understand the shots sometimes you are forced to take (or pass) that have nothing to do with hunter skill but with terrain, cover, and the critter involved.

The choice to shoot or not and the risk factor involved is determined by the wind and the distance and the individual rifleman. Having less wind drift and a flatter trajectory reduces shot risk and increases the kill range which increases shot opportunities hunting wide open spaces. This is just a fact.

I have shot quite a few things with a Partition. It's a great bullet that will do all that 99% of us could ever need.

But for the reasons above, I shoot different bullets for where and how I hunt.


The point was the above stated "526 yard shot" which the poster that made the comment feels is a limiter for a Partition in wind. I just frankly disagree with that. At that range, comparing an equal weight/speed ballistic tip to a partition, the difference in drift between the two will be around 4 inches. If you can't compensate for that you shouldn't be shooting at that distance, because regardless both are going to be way off target in, say, a 10 mph cross wind.

I've shot plenty at range in wind, and inside of 550 yards (which is pretty much absolute max I'd shoot at an animal) the ability to adjust a few extra inches isn't a deal killer.

Personally, I wouldn't shoot an animal in a 10 mph cross wind at 526 yards anyway. Farthest I've shot a critter was a bedded antelope at 548 yards, ironically, with a 180 Partition. There was no way to get closer, and the wind was blowing directly at me. I had plenty of time, knew the rifle, and could get a solid "nest." One shot kill. But it's generally possible to get closer. Much closer, which to me is what hunting is all about. But that's a separate discussion...



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It's elemental, actually. A PT is made for the tip to expand and the base is made to hold together and give deep penetration. An AB is made to explode. The plastic tip is driven down the center of the lead and forces it apart. It opens up much faster than a PT.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
It's elemental, actually. A PT is made for the tip to expand and the base is made to hold together and give deep penetration. An AB is made to explode. The plastic tip is driven down the center of the lead and forces it apart. It opens up much faster than a PT.
The AB is made to mimic the expansion of a partition in a bonded bullet with a higher BC. I my experience, that is pretty much what they do. I have used them to shoot just about every big game animal that I have killed for quite a few years now--elk, deer and pronghorns here in the USA, and plains game up to the size of eland in Africa . I have never experienced the explosive expansion to which you continue to refer.

It is a well-known fact that a few runs of ABs fairly early on were not made to specs, thanks to a Nosler employee who made unauthorized alterations to the manufacturing process in an attempt to speed things up. Once the problem was identified and rectified, the problems disappeared.


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Originally Posted by mudhen
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
It's elemental, actually. A PT is made for the tip to expand and the base is made to hold together and give deep penetration. An AB is made to explode. The plastic tip is driven down the center of the lead and forces it apart. It opens up much faster than a PT.
The AB is made to mimic the expansion of a partition in a bonded bullet with a higher BC. I my experience, that is pretty much what they do. I have used them to shoot just about every big game animal that I have killed for quite a few years now--elk, deer and pronghorns here in the USA, and plains game up to the size of eland in Africa . I have never experienced the explosive expansion to which you continue to refer.

It is a well-known fact that a few runs of ABs fairly early on were not made to specs, thanks to a Nosler employee who made unauthorized alterations to the manufacturing process in an attempt to speed things up. Once the problem was identified and rectified, the problems disappeared.



mudhen, those must have been the ones where the plastic tips fell off. I had a bunch of those when they first came out. They pissed me off and I swore I'd never try them again. They never shot as well as partitions either... I finally gave up on them...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by GregW
I would also say the only weakness would be for a longish shot relative to other proven bullets, especially in the wind.

Some of you guys that don't hunt much out west, especially those who don't get to hunt mule deer and especially coues deer much just don't understand the shots sometimes you are forced to take (or pass) that have nothing to do with hunter skill but with terrain, cover, and the critter involved.

The choice to shoot or not and the risk factor involved is determined by the wind and the distance and the individual rifleman. Having less wind drift and a flatter trajectory reduces shot risk and increases the kill range which increases shot opportunities hunting wide open spaces. This is just a fact.

I have shot quite a few things with a Partition. It's a great bullet that will do all that 99% of us could ever need.

But for the reasons above, I shoot different bullets for where and how I hunt.


The point was the above stated "526 yard shot" which the poster that made the comment feels is a limiter for a Partition in wind. I just frankly disagree with that. At that range, comparing an equal weight/speed ballistic tip to a partition, the difference in drift between the two will be around 4 inches. If you can't compensate for that you shouldn't be shooting at that distance, because regardless both are going to be way off target in, say, a 10 mph cross wind.

I've shot plenty at range in wind, and inside of 550 yards (which is pretty much absolute max I'd shoot at an animal) the ability to adjust a few extra inches isn't a deal killer.

Personally, I wouldn't shoot an animal in a 10 mph cross wind at 526 yards anyway. Farthest I've shot a critter was a bedded antelope at 548 yards, ironically, with a 180 Partition. There was no way to get closer, and the wind was blowing directly at me. I had plenty of time, knew the rifle, and could get a solid "nest." One shot kill. But it's generally possible to get closer. Much closer, which to me is what hunting is all about. But that's a separate discussion...



The thread is about the inadequacies of the Partition. I mentioned an inadequacy which for most of hunters including you Brad it's obviously not an issue.

We are not discussing how or where people hunt or how far they feel comfortable shooting or the magic line between where hunting turns to shooting. All these things vary.

All bullets have weaknesses and all are a give or take, just like every one of our gear choices that we each personally make.



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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter



mudhen, those must have been the ones where the plastic tips fell off. I had a bunch of those when they first came out. They pissed me off and I swore I'd never try them again. They never shot as well as partitions either... I finally gave up on them...
You are correct. Those runs were the ones in which many of the plastic tips fell off. I had one or two boxes like that and elected not to shoot them at game, mostly for cosmetic reasons. blush


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Thanks mudhen. Maybe I'll give them a try again. I've heard the AB likes to be backed off the lands more than the partition as well. The sub par accuracy was probably my fault, since I ran them close to the lands, like I do with the partitions....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Rock Chuck,

No, the plastic tip of AccuBonds (or any other plastic-tipped bullet) doesn't not get driven down into the center of the lead. Slow-motion video of plastic-tipped bullets expanding in clear ballistic gelation shows the plastic tips drifting ahead of the expanding bullet, and then getting pushed off to the side. They expand just like non-tipped bullets.

AccuBonds are constructed to lose about the same amount of weight than Partitions, so don't shred any more meat. There's no reason they should. And like Partitions, the AccuBonds over .30 caliber are designed to retain more weight.

Over the years the Partitions under .30 that I've recovered have averaged 62.4% weight retention, and the under-.30 AccuBonds 67.2%. The over-.30 Partitions have averaged 86.3%, and over-.30 AccuBonds 78.6%.


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Higbean,

While Partitions wouldn't be my first choice for shooting much past 500 yards at anything, the 200-grain .30 isn't too bad. Bryan Litz's range-tested data gives it a G1 BC of right around .500 for velocities from 3000 fps down to 2000 fps, very close to the BC Nosler lists. When started at 3000 fps velocity at 500 is still over 2300 in typical Montana hunting conditions, and wind-drift isn't too bad at all--one reason I've used it considerably in the .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby, where of course it also works great close-up.

Litz's G7 BC is .249 across all velocities from 3000 down to 1500, again not too bad.


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Originally Posted by Brad
At that range, comparing an equal weight/speed ballistic tip to a partition, the difference in drift between the two will be around 4 inches.


True, but for the sake of argument the BT is not a high BC bullet.



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Guess I'm a backwards person,I only care about the bullet penetrating and expanding.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
It's elemental, actually. A PT is made for the tip to expand and the base is made to hold together and give deep penetration. An AB is made to explode. The plastic tip is driven down the center of the lead and forces it apart. It opens up much faster than a PT.


Mule Deer has written that the plastic tip generally doesn't drive down the middle, but rather veers off to the side. The expansion is driven by the big hollow point the tip rides in. My only recovered plastic tip, from of all things a Barnes 290gr ML bullet, bears this out. It was recovered under the shoulder blade a good ways from the bullet, which lodged in the spine between the shoulders (frontal shot from above). Of cours, stuff happens, and almost anything can happen once.


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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
Guess I'm a backwards person,I only care about the bullet penetrating and expanding.


Unless it's on a rabbit in which case 'hydraulic displacement' is the ballistic mechanism of choice.
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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Brad
At that range, comparing an equal weight/speed ballistic tip to a partition, the difference in drift between the two will be around 4 inches.


True, but for the sake of argument the BT is not a high BC bullet.


True. But even a high BC bullet will be off target at 526 yards in a 10mph side wind. You learn your bullet, what ever the bullet, and have to compensate. The rifleman makes the rifle, not the reverse. And I'd still rather learn the drift of a Partition than put my faith in a tinfoil bullet. But that's me. Still, I'm not shooting game, any game, in hard wind at range. Is a Partition a 1000 yard target bullet? No. But I also have little respect for anyone that shoots game at the distances where a high BC bullet has to enter into the discussion. Targets are one thing, big game another.



“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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