Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters AMAX, VLD, ELD-X, ABLR, etc., etc. bullets

So far I have tried these super-streamlined bullets from various makers in 3 different cartridges, and so far only in one case have they shot what I would call "very well". In the rifles in question a more conventional bullet shot much better, and took less development to establish a good load. These are all in rifles with appropriate barrel twists for the bullets in question.

The best has been a .300 RUM, in a Montana Rifles X2 model. It has shot literally bug holes with 180gr Accubonds, with 4 different loads, at various speeds and OAL's. By contrast, the 190 ABLR has managed .81" for its best 3 shot group, and most of them were more like 1 - 1½".

It's a similar story with my 7mm-08, which has a 1 in 9" Pac-nor barrel. It's superb with 120gr Ballistic Tips, but groups with 162 ELD's are 1½" to 2".

One guy commented a while back that the ogive on these bullets makes them more sensitive to seating depths than more conventional profiles, like an Accubond. I'm wondering if anyone has found a common technique that works with these style bullets? For example, the Barnes and other monolithic bullets are advised to seat at least .050" off the rifling, so I'm wondering if someone else has found a technique that works with VLD's and similar bullets.

I always start at the lands for seating depth, Berger has a recommended seating depth procedure on there website. It seems to work for most.

I always start with factory length, it it shoots sub MOA, I'm happy.

I use Bergers method start on the lands and back off sometimes way off to see what happens. The sleeker the bullet the more temperamental they seem to be. Also might try them at 2-300 yards as I have been surprised by shooting almost the same size group farther out as I got at 100 yards. A one inch group at 200 is a half minute group. But others times I just give up before finding a sweet spot. Or a switch to the length tolerant classic hunter or some other less pointy bullet has made life easier with out too big of a loss in BC.

Not sure what the Montana has but these bullets seem to like a 1 degree target throat better than the 2-3 degree SAAMI throat.

Here's a link to the Berger COAL protocol.

High ogive bullets can be really sensitive to COAL.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/

DF

Good, thanks!

Sh1t, let's get real.

Acronyms don't kill big furry critters, bullets do.

The (horrible and totally dishonoured) cup-and-core Hornady Interlockeds and Nosler Ballistics kill like crazy in the standard cartridges that most of us use.

Hey, .25-'06 (my personal favorite), .270 LBTGQ community, .280 Ackley, .30-'06, .338-'06 ... they kill just fine and dandy.

No extra capital letters and dip-shyt acronyms needed to make them kill any better. Just drop the crosshair on fur and they're dead-dead-dead.

May God Bless You,

Steve

Good to see you here, Steve. Good to see a ray of of realism. I've tried new stuff, and had good luck with Berger VLDs and the A-max, but when I stick a Hornady inter-lock in a vital spot, I get out my knife and the work begins.

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Right you are.

Besides all the antiques, and single shots I collect, I finally took up a couple of long range rifles, and thought about shooting at longer ranges. As far as I can see it, wind drift is the big reason for the super-duper streamlined slugs, trajectory not so much.

And yeah, this past fall I looked at a huge old aoudad, that was across a canyon, with a strong gusting, swirling crosswind. Neither the guide nor I were willing to take the shot. The ram looked at us, and was not alarmed

But so far, an Accubond or a Ballistic Tip shoots much tighter groups than any of the alphabet soup bullets

Yea alphabet soup bullets can't hang with accubonds and Btips for accuracy.

I love it....

So far one of my favorite long-range alphabet bullets is the Hornady 160-grain FTX for the .30-30. It shoots pretty well out of my Model 64 Winchester with a Lyman 56 aperture sight, and when the Lyman's clicked up will hit an 8-inch gong consistently at 300 yards--about where the FTX's velocity drops to 1800 fps.

The Lyman even has a "zero stop," for turning it back down to 100 yards, so my 76-year-old lever rifle is right in there with the current hot trends. Nothing like acronyms for modernizing old stuff, like a WM64.

Next month I'll be taking some FTX bullets hunting in a .35 Remington Marlin 336. And to add more alphabet, backed by TAC powder. I wasn't sure how consistent it would burn at moderate pressure suitable for the Marlin, but it shot well with very consistent velocity.

Friends,

Sorry for the rant last evening

Let me explain. I haven't been on the 24HCF for many moons (callouts cease participation greatly), but the Alphabet Soup Boolit thread caught my eye.

And it reminded me of the many, many "new and improved" shooting products that I've seen and used for the last sixty-some years of shooting and killing furry critters.

Let me see, when I was a kid, your rifle would instantly rust to death if you didn't use WD-40 (turned out to be a decent product). Then, there was the white gunk you treated your barrel with that made your bullets go faster (not a good product). And later, you had to cryo your barrel or it wouldn't shoot worth spit (very questionable). And moly (don't get me started on that one).

ABSOLUTELY, there were fabulous new products; Hornady Interlocked bullets, Nosler Partitons and Ballistics, to name a few. And synthetic stocks, and stainless steel custom barrels. Truly, we live in a Golden Age of superb shooting stuff.

BUT, there is also the tendency for manufacturers to promote their new stuff as better than the old stuff. Sometimes that is true and sometimes it is not.

Funny story, several years ago, I was hunting antelope with Pat Sinclair (ScenarShooter) on the Hougen Ranch out of Melstone, Montana. We found a really great buck feeding smack in the middle of a HUGE open wash.

Pat ranged him at 300 yards. The problem was that we had about a 30mph wind dead from our left. I was shooting my favourite .280 Ackley with 140Ballistics at 3,150fps.

I declined to take the shot. I'm a decent shot, but the risk of wounding a magnificent antelope was just to high.

As it turned out, he eventually spooked and ran over a hill. Prolly twenty minutes later I killed a really bonzo buck antelope maybe a half mile from the original shot opportunity. At 200 yards and no wind ... no way to know, but I've always thought he was the SAME BUCK ... prolly was.

If I'd been shooting one of the new Alphabet "Slick" bullets and had less hunting experience, I might have been suckered into taking the original shot. I dunno.

Anyway, there has always been good stuff and there's always been new stuff and sometimes the new stuff turns out to be better ... and sometimes it just slinks back into obscurity.

Time always tells.

Just passing through; see you guys later.

Blessings,

Steve

PS. Here's the buck Pat and I killed together. By the way, Pat is the real deal, an incredible hunter and a fine, fine man. A friend.

Good to see ya, DZ!

I'm just confused....

A potential pitfall of higher BC bullets might be the temptation to take shots you shouldn't?

Great goat DZ!

no worries, Steve, I got a laugh out of it. It strikes me as ironic when a "long range bullet" shoots groups 2-3x larger than the old style bullet, which seems to defeat the purpose of the sleeker bullet. From what others have posted, you can make them shoot well, but they will take more development time than old style bullets.

Development time is kinda expensive with a .300 RUM, in powder, bullets, barrel life, and shoulder

thanks again for posting, Steve

I've tried A-Maggot's, Sierra HPBT's, ABLR's with crappy results.

The bullet that simply gives results right outta the gate is the Lapua Scenar.

Do you mean accuracy or on game results?