Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters AMAX, VLD, ELD-X, ABLR, etc., etc. bullets

Steve, loved your post...

You nailed it.

Agree with Lapua and what you said about Pat. He is the real deal.

I've visited with Hi_Vel (http://parabola-llc.com/product-info/) who invented the Reticle Tru tool. He's located in Pat's general area, has great things to say about him.

And, Scenars are so easy to work with, I see why Pat likes them so much.

DF

In general, I haven't had much problem getting Berger VLD's (or other Bergers) to shoot well either. In fact the most accurate bullet in my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle is a Berger, and I've also tried three different brands of highly regarded small-maker bullets.

Have just started fooling with ELD's but don't expect them to be much different than A-Maxes, which I've usually found easy to work with. Have has mixed results with ABLR's, but more positive than negative.

But have had excellent accuracy from a bunch of other bullets too, of course including Hornady Interlocks, Sierras and Ballistic Tips. Used to have more problems with AccuBonds but not many these days--but also have generally good luck with Partitions. I don't expect them to shoot like target bullets, but in many rifles they've been among the most accurate. In a 6.5-06 where I tried at least a dozen different bullets, the 140 Berger VLD was the most accurate bullet, but the second was the 140 Nosler Partition.

Steve,
always enjoy the dose of grounded common sense. But John has me buying boxes of lettered trinkets to try just because you never know.......
They go right next to the boxes of cast lead with gas checks that Mike V got me to buy.
Enjoy it all friend.

Yeah, Bob.

The Fire is NOT a good place to save money...

I never had so many varieties of powder, bullets, etc., pre-Fire, not including the guns I've built as a result.

DF

Steve, nice to see you posting again, and a reality check is always refreshing. Hope things are well with you and your better half!

I'm staying on topic which was how they shoot accuracy-wise.

I plan on shooting stuff with them this year.

It has been my experience that a shorter than average shank on BTs can make them harder to get to shoot well from many rifles.

The shorter the shank means less bearing surface contacting the barrel. Less grip. More chance for bullets to yaw. Stability isn't as good as with FB bullets, generally.

Throw a huge throat into the mix and you've got a bullet that's at a disadvantage from the get-go. You can get at BT to shoot certainly, but the effort (and expense) isn't always called for.

There is a higher likelihood that you will get straight sided FB bullets to shoot tighter groups from most rifles. If you are not shooting over three or four hundred yards, which most hunters aren't, it's easier and cheaper to get something like a Hornady Interlock to group.

KISS.

That's interesting Steve R. I've found in numerous rifles that if it won't shoot a BT, finding one it will shoot accurately can be very tough.

I've found that rifles that shoot 1/4 MOA at 600 also shoot pretty well at 100, regardless of the bullet type.

I've tried Berger VLD hunting bullets and got great accuracy from the 155's in my 308. In can't get the 168's to shoot well at all. The Hornady ELD-X bullets in 178 and 200 gr have shot very well in my 30-06 and 300 WSM and aren't too expensive. I've had mixed results with Nosler Accubonds.

The trajectory of the high BC bullets isn't that much different. The biggest plus that I see, and I've yet to see anyone discuss, is better retained velocity and energy as range increases.

Comparing the 180 gr Hornady Interlock with the 178 ELD-X with both leaving the muzzle at 2800 fps there is about 100 fps and about 130 ft lbs advantage to the ELD-X at 300 yards. Only about 1/2 difference in trajectory, I didn't calculate wind. Not a huge difference, but if the ELD's prove to be as effective on game why not take advantage of it.

I haven't seen enough field reports on the ELD's to know how they perform on game.

What I do with a new rifle or barrel is ask myself what the intended target and range of encounter is likely to be. Load development is driven solely on that, not because I might have a pile of BTs of the correct diameter. Any load used at 300 yd and less is FB.

For example, the 308 Win cartridge is not particularly difficult to get to shoot well. This cartridge likes Re 15, Varget, 4895 and a few others. These powders have a proven track record with a wide variety of bullets. Except for target loads, I always start with a Hornady, Rem or Win FB because I have never used a rifle that shot BTs better than a FB. This is especially true for smaller calibres.

Certainly, if you are trying to build a LD load, you're going to mess around with a BT, but the majority of hunters aren't looking to drop game at long distances. Most are looking at 300 yd or less. BTs aren't needed and are generally more finicky when developing a load.

It's certainly difficult to convince hunters who have never shot game beyond 150 yd. that they do not need a BT bullet. The reaction is always the same. They aren't playing the percentages, they're trying to cover a long shot that won't happen.

Edited to add: 224 is anything beyond 200 yd.

Mr. Ridgewell.... you've literally said some of the dumbest things I've ever heard a gunwritter say.... and y'all say a lot of stupid stuff. But that "Ballistic Tips are tough to get to shoot accurately" statement takes the cake.... you're like the Craig Boddington of Canada.... eh?

Well, thanks for the hunting and load development seminar, but let's just say my opinion of BTS is much different than yours.

Lol

Actually, I said that I've never had a rifle shoot BTs better than FBs. Didn't mention Ballistic Tips. BTs are boat tails, not Nosler Ballistic Tips.

What the fugg does Facebook have to do with this thread?

FB=Flat Base
BT=Boat Tail

You'd think that would be rather obvious given the context of Redgwell's post?

You'd also think someone could type out the words "boat tail" instead of throwing around acronyms that could have multiple meanings, at least for the first post so everyone can understand what they mean. After that it's OK to get lazy & abbreviate. I swear half the people on these forums are worse than the military with the damned acronyms.

Crow,
That's true. Good point.

I would point out the BT stood for boat tail, long before Nosler Ballistic Tips were created. But that's getting off the topic of the various boat tail bullets - AMAX, VLD, ELD-X, ABLR, etc. - how they do or do not shoot, tips for loading them, etc.