|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
By our current legal definitions, the vast majority of abortions in this country are legal, and not classified as murder. As was Germany's final solution.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222 |
The best course of action to reduce abortions is to make birth control readily available and affordable, preventing unwanted pregnancies is pretty simple.
One could also make the financial costs of giving birth a non issue and make the adoption process much easier, basically make it easy to choose life.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,549
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,549 |
"The slippery slope goes both ways. How much of your religious beliefs should you be allowed to force upon others?
Additionally, when you call for an end to individual families being allowed to make their own reproductive choices, you need to think through the consequences of such a policy."
Playing devil's advocate here for a minute:
Since the Muslims believe that female mutilation and marriage to 12 year old girls is okay, as is rape of non-Muslim women, should we not be able to force our religious-based moral laws on Muslim immigrants?
Regarding families being allowed to make their own reproductive choices by permitting killing of fetuses before birth, then why not give them, say, maybe a year after the birth to decide if they want to terminate the life of their child. By then they will have more information to base their decision on. Some marriages fail within the first year after a birth. Wouldn't life be so much simpler for all parties if that pesky little infant was no longer in the picture?
Slippery slopes can tilt in all directions. You are confusing your secular values for religions ones. Male circumcision has a long history in Judeo-Christianity. Islam just applies this practice to the opposite sex. Not mutilating the gentiles of children is a secular, not a religious value. Same thing with the age of consent. It's a modern secular value, not a religions one. As for your one year old strawman, you are really equivocating, comparing a mass of undifferentiated cells with a live birth.
As for what the Bible says about the treatment of women and children of different religions, perhaps you should acquaint yourself with Numbers 31 and the Massacre of the Midianites. And you are still advocating for the addition of 60+ million more unwanted welfare drawing, Hillary voting, gang banging middle school drop outs in this country. If that "mass of cells" turns into a donkey, then you may have a point, since it doesn't, you don't. Abortion crosses more than just religious lines. It's a moral issue, or the lack there of. Christians don't have a monopoly on being anti abortion. Clyde
The liberal mind is an endless black hole of stupidity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,091
Campfire Savant
|
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,091 |
They shoot the cshit out of each other too
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209 |
This is alway the topic that makes us, as conservatives, look like giant hypocrites. We want freedom for all and less government, but at the same time want to control everyone's sexual preference.
If we could just live our lives and let others live there's, it would be tough to beat.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it. Now we are into definitions. What does it mean to be human, and who decides? Is the Sin of Onan, since it contains your genetic code also the same as a 100 million acts of murder?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
The best course of action to reduce abortions is to make birth control readily available and affordable, preventing unwanted pregnancies is pretty simple.
One could also make the financial costs of giving birth a non issue and make the adoption process much easier, basically make it easy to choose life.
Explain to me how birth control - covered in a myriad of forms by ever health insurance in the nation, and especially by Medicaid, on top of condoms being cheaper than chewing gum - is not already "affordable". Giving birth is a "non-issue" financially, as those who are most likely to abort are on Medicaid, and the taxpayer covers the costs of birth. Birth is also damned well covered by health insurance. As to adoption - yes, the process sucks. It's a hell of a lot easier to buy a house or a dog or a car than to adopt a kid. Figure the responsibility, though.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it. Now we are into definitions. What does it mean to be human, and who decides? Is the Sin of Onan, since it contains your genetic code also the same as a 100 million acts of murder? Being human is easy. DNA answers that question. When the DNA says "human", you have a human. Next?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
This is alway the topic that makes us, as conservatives, look like giant hypocrites. We want freedom for all and less government, but at the same time want to control everyone's sexual preference.
If we could just live our lives and let others live there's, it would be tough to beat. Wrong. There is justifiable homicide, which is well defined. Fall within those parameters, and you're good. That has nothing to do with sexual preference.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388 |
This is alway the topic that makes us, as conservatives, look like giant hypocrites. We want freedom for all and less government, but at the same time want to control everyone's sexual preference.
If we could just live our lives and let others live there's, it would be tough to beat. I think that you, sir, do not understand the argument. It is precisely my desire to let others live their own lives that keeps me firmly in the prolife camp. Here's a hint: children in the womb are people too, not just an undifferentiated mass of cells. Look, a fetus has human parents so it is human too, right? It is growing so it is alive, right? So it is a living human being with intrinsic value and it is worthy of protection just like me and you, right? It really not that difficult.
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948 |
The best course of action to reduce abortions is to make birth control readily available and affordable, preventing unwanted pregnancies is pretty simple.
One could also make the financial costs of giving birth a non issue and make the adoption process much easier, basically make it easy to choose life.
Explain to me how birth control - covered in a myriad of forms by ever health insurance in the nation, and especially by Medicaid, on top of condoms being cheaper than chewing gum - is not already "affordable". Giving birth is a "non-issue" financially, as those who are most likely to abort are on Medicaid, and the taxpayer covers the costs of birth. Birth is also damned well covered by health insurance. As to adoption - yes, the process sucks. It's a hell of a lot easier to buy a house or a dog or a car than to adopt a kid. Figure the responsibility, though. What percentage of white people will adopt a black baby? The reality is not very many will. NeBassman and JoeMamma, How many black babies have you adopted?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it. Now we are into definitions. What does it mean to be human, and who decides? Is the Sin of Onan, since it contains your genetic code also the same as a 100 million acts of murder? Being human is easy. DNA answers that question. When the DNA says "human", you have a human. Next? So, a batch of eggs are fertilized in a fertility clinic. Are they now a person? If every single one is not implanted and not brought to term, is that "murder"? How about discarding the unused ones? And by your DNA standard, flogging the dolphin is not "murder".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
The best course of action to reduce abortions is to make birth control readily available and affordable, preventing unwanted pregnancies is pretty simple.
One could also make the financial costs of giving birth a non issue and make the adoption process much easier, basically make it easy to choose life.
Explain to me how birth control - covered in a myriad of forms by ever health insurance in the nation, and especially by Medicaid, on top of condoms being cheaper than chewing gum - is not already "affordable". Giving birth is a "non-issue" financially, as those who are most likely to abort are on Medicaid, and the taxpayer covers the costs of birth. Birth is also damned well covered by health insurance. As to adoption - yes, the process sucks. It's a hell of a lot easier to buy a house or a dog or a car than to adopt a kid. Figure the responsibility, though. What percentage of white people will adopt a black baby? The reality is not very many will. NeBassman and JoeMamma, How many black babies have you adopted? Can you address the biology and defend abortion? Must not be able to. If you're jumping to racism to defend abortion, you've already lost as you are essentially siding with Margaret Sanger in her Nazi-colloborating, white-supremacist, eugenicist utopia. How many have we adopted? None. Would we? Yes. No question; no hesitation: How about you?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it. Now we are into definitions. What does it mean to be human, and who decides? Is the Sin of Onan, since it contains your genetic code also the same as a 100 million acts of murder? Being human is easy. DNA answers that question. When the DNA says "human", you have a human. Next? So, a batch of eggs are fertilized in a fertility clinic. Are they now a person? If every single one is not implanted and not brought to term, is that "murder"? How about discarding the unused ones? And by your DNA standard, flogging the dolphin is not "murder". Masturbation produces only 1/2 the genetic code necessary for life. That's a very poor argument on your part. The reproductive lab is a better argument. However, it lacks implantation, which is the necessary step to create a human from a fertilized egg.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948 |
That "mass of undifferentiated cells" has the same exact genetic code that it has when it "differentiates."
Of course, you know full well that the mass of cells is not undifferentiated anyway. But your "argument" fails based on the ontology of the genetic code contained therein.
Abortion is the premeditated unjust act of killing a defenseless human. Start there, and argue for it. Now we are into definitions. What does it mean to be human, and who decides? Is the Sin of Onan, since it contains your genetic code also the same as a 100 million acts of murder? Being human is easy. DNA answers that question. When the DNA says "human", you have a human. Next? So, a batch of eggs are fertilized in a fertility clinic. Are they now a person? If every single one is not implanted and not brought to term, is that "murder"? How about discarding the unused ones? And by your DNA standard, flogging the dolphin is not "murder". Masturbation produces only 1/2 the genetic code necessary for life. That's a very poor argument on your part. The reproductive lab is a better argument. However, it lacks implantation, which is the necessary step to create a human from a fertilized egg. Sperm cells carry 23 chromosomes. In a human egg or sperm, there are 23 chromosomes, one of which is an X or Y. The number of chromosomes is reduced from 46 to 23 during the process of meiosis So by your own admission, the measure is not the genetic code, and requires something more.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 02/22/17.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,948 |
The best course of action to reduce abortions is to make birth control readily available and affordable, preventing unwanted pregnancies is pretty simple.
One could also make the financial costs of giving birth a non issue and make the adoption process much easier, basically make it easy to choose life.
Explain to me how birth control - covered in a myriad of forms by ever health insurance in the nation, and especially by Medicaid, on top of condoms being cheaper than chewing gum - is not already "affordable". Giving birth is a "non-issue" financially, as those who are most likely to abort are on Medicaid, and the taxpayer covers the costs of birth. Birth is also damned well covered by health insurance. As to adoption - yes, the process sucks. It's a hell of a lot easier to buy a house or a dog or a car than to adopt a kid. Figure the responsibility, though. What percentage of white people will adopt a black baby? The reality is not very many will. NeBassman and JoeMamma, How many black babies have you adopted? Can you address the biology and defend abortion? Must not be able to. If you're jumping to racism to defend abortion, you've already lost as you are essentially siding with Margaret Sanger in her Nazi-colloborating, white-supremacist, eugenicist utopia. How many have we adopted? None. Would we? Yes. No question; no hesitation: How about you? I'm not the one trying to force my religious values onto others and force them to bear the cost. Since it is you and those who believe like you attempting to impose your beliefs on others, you should bear the cost. Annually, about 100,000 kids in the U.S come up for adoption, and only about half are actually adopted. The lowest adoption rates are for black babies, so there's plenty of opportunity if you wish to do so.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388 |
AS,
You keep trying to pin the "religious" label on 4ager and me, but neither of us have used religion based arguments.
What else do you have?
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,209 |
I'm very much not in favor of abortion, I'm sitting my 42 year old ass with my 11 month old whoopsie. I am however more against having the responsibility to run someone else's life. Most of us can hardly run our own lives well let alone someone else's.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,388 |
Let's push your argument to its logical conclusion, OK? You are fine with a mother killing her two hear old toddler because the mother is running her own life, right? After all, most of us can hardly run our own lives well let alone someone else's.
Did I get that right?
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8) d.v. Musings on TDS
|
|
|
|
|
583 members (10gaugemag, 1beaver_shooter, 10ring1, 16penny, 17CalFan, 160user, 64 invisible),
2,408
guests, and
1,177
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,219
Posts18,466,425
Members73,925
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
