24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by Hancock27
Pick up the phone and call the ATF, they are friendly knowledgeable people who are not out to arrest you.

Exactly. You can be confident that they have your very best interests as their top priority.


Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years.
It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
GB1

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,898
1
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
1
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,898
Originally Posted by northcountry
I wonder does this also apply when it is a gift within a family even through they are in different states?? Cheers NC
Pretty sure it does.


The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,523
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,523
Could be a set up! Spend the $$ for a FFL transfer!

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,749
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,749
People "find" all kind of excuses to avoid doing the legal thing, whether for the money, the trouble involved, or out of some redneck rebelliousness, but there'll be hell to pay if you get caught. If the gun is later involved in a crime and there's a paper trail to you, even a partial one, prepare to get dragged into things.

Many years ago, I was in a pinch (!) and sold a NIB Ruger No.1A .270 to a dealer. Some years later, I got a call from the police to tell me that they'd recovered "my" rifle. After a couple of seconds of temptation, I explained that I wasn't missing anything and then told them where I sold it so they could continue down the trail to the real owner. I got another call about a S&W K17 I'd sold to someone FTF. Both examples ended with just a phone call from the cops, but if there had been any bloodshed invoved, you can bet it would have been somewhat stickier.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,090
Campfire Ranger
Online Happy
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,090
Originally Posted by pal
Originally Posted by MadMooner
I wouldn't bother with an ffl if I was FTF in another state and the seller seemed a reasonable guy.

It's a stupid law and I usually don't obey stupid laws when I find them to be onerous and the likely hood of getting in trouble is minute.


Unhuh. whistle


You're off my list of reasonable people to do FTF business with.


“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
IC B2

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,366
D
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
D
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,366
If anyone is thinking of doing a transfer in contradiction of BATF regs then read this.
If I recall correctly the back story on this incident was that the Feds were watching the buyer because of something else he was suspected of doing. Also I recall that he had done a FFL transfer to his uncle in accordance with what you would think should be properly done, that should have negated any wrong doing but they nailed him because he had answered yes to this question - "Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you."


LAW

Supreme Court Rules Against Gun 'Straw Purchases'

Listen· 3:57
3:57

Queue
Download
Embed
Transcript
June 16, 20145:46 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
Nina Totenberg
NINA TOTENBERG
The U.S. Supreme Court delivered a major victory to gun control advocates on Monday. The 5-4 ruling allows strict enforcement of the federal ban on gun "straw purchases," or one person buying a gun for another.

The federal law on background checks requires federally licensed gun dealers to verify the identity of buyers and submit their names to a federal database to weed out felons, those with a history of mental illness and others barred from gun ownership.

Significantly, the federal form and identification procedure make clear that only the actual buyers are eligible to make the purchase. It features in boldface these words: "Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you."

In this case, Bruce Abramski Jr. offered to buy a Glock 19 handgun in Virginia for his uncle in Pennsylvania because Abramski thought he could get a law enforcement discount on the gun. Abramski had previously been a policeman but had been fired from the Roanoke, Va., police department for alleged theft.

At the gun dealership, Abramski filled out the federal forms, stating that he was the actual buyer of the gun. He even signed a separate form certifying his understanding that giving a false answer to that question is itself a federal crime.

After he was cleared by the federal database, Abramski gave the gun to his uncle, deposited the uncle's $400 check, and gave him a receipt.

Police later found the receipt after searching Abramski's home in connection with another crime. He was sentenced to five years of probation for lying on the federal form by representing himself as the actual buyer.

He appealed to the Supreme Court, arguing that his answer on the form was "not material to the lawfulness of the sale" because his uncle could have bought the gun legally on his own.

On Monday the high court rejected that argument by a 5-to-4 vote. Writing for the majority, Justice Elena Kagan said that Abramski's reading would completely gut the twin purposes of the law — to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and others who should not have them, and to assist law enforcement authorities in investigating serious crimes.

Kagan noted that according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, nearly half of its gun trafficking investigations involve straw purchasers. In the first six months of the 2014 fiscal year, there were 42 prosecutions in which the straw purchase violation was the lead charge, and many others in which it was a charge secondary to another crime, according to the Syracuse University Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse.

Kagan said that were Abramski's view of the law to prevail, it would "render the required records close to useless" for aiding law enforcement. "Putting true numbskulls to one side, anyone purchasing a gun for criminal purposes would avoid leaving a paper trail by the simple expedient of hiring a straw," she said.

Writing for the four dissenters, Justice Antonin Scalia accused the court majority of making it "a federal crime for one lawful gun owner to buy a gun for another lawful gun owner." Joining his dissent were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.

Particularly interesting in Monday's ruling was the vote of Justice Anthony Kennedy, who in 2008 sided with the court's conservatives in declaring for the first time that individuals have a constitutional right to gun ownership. That decision, written by Scalia, also had language pointedly allowing gun regulations — language that many experts believe was added at Kennedy's insistence.

Monday found Kennedy lining up instead against court conservatives to support the ban on straw purchases.

Many experts, like UCLA law professor Adam Winkler, were somewhat startled by the closeness of the vote. "It surprised me that there were four justices who would go so far as to say federal law does not outlaw straw purchasing," said Winkler. "That was a pretty significant step toward gutting one of the few viable and effective gun control laws we currently have on the books."

Reaction from various interest groups was pretty predictable, though the closeness of the vote seemed unexpected.

"The government's out of control, and all three branches are united against the people and the Constitution," said Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America.

In contrast, Jon Lowy, legal director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, was relieved. "The gun lobby was seeking to blast a gaping hole in our federal straw purchase law," he said. "Fortunately, the court rejected that."


223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.

24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,090
Campfire Ranger
Online Happy
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,090
That Abramski fella is off the list as well.


“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
C
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
Originally Posted by websterparish47
Does the contiguos state rule apply? As a Louisiana resident I can buy rifles and shotguns(but not hand guns) in Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi as each of these states has a common border with Louisiana.


Never heard of the "Contiguous State Rule". What is it?


Don't roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Originally Posted by websterparish47
Does the contiguos state rule apply? As a Louisiana resident I can buy rifles and shotguns(but not hand guns) in Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi as each of these states has a common border with Louisiana.

That rule applies to sales from an FFL


One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Originally Posted by cdb
Originally Posted by websterparish47
Does the contiguos state rule apply? As a Louisiana resident I can buy rifles and shotguns(but not hand guns) in Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi as each of these states has a common border with Louisiana.


Never heard of the "Contiguous State Rule". What is it?

FFL dealers once could sell long guns to residents to contiguous states, but can only sell handguns to residents of their own states.

That law has been revised to say they can sell long guns to residents of all the states.

https://www.ffl123.com/ffl-sales-contiguous-states-sales/

Non-dealers cannot legally sell any firearms directly to residents of other states.


One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
IC B3

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
C
cdb Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,340
Thanks Snyper. When I was doing my training for NICS at work nothing was mentioned about it, which makes sense since it's no longer relevant.


Don't roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

581 members (1OntarioJim, 10Glocks, 1234, 1Longbow, 1beaver_shooter, 60 invisible), 2,569 guests, and 1,124 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,314
Posts18,468,326
Members73,928
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.105s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8536 MB (Peak: 0.9531 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-25 16:08:41 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS