Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Mechanical BH shooters need to see this.

Years ago I killed a big 5x5 herd bull in Co just east of Valliceto Lake with my 270 and a Bearclaw bullet. He had about 15 cows and was the only bull in the bunch.
He had two old wounds that i have given much consideration. At heart level and just behind the left shoulder was a wound still slightly draining a little yellow green exudate. Buried in a rib and encased in scar tissue that sealed the wound from the inside was a hollow based hollow pointed 54 cal muzzle load lead round. Dayom. I know the guy must have thought, WTF.

Sorry, got to go. Ill finish later.

I think it's a well-accepted standard that mechanicals require more speed and arrow weight than fixed blades. This is one of the primary reasons so many people are complaining about expandables failing to work well. While so many other people are raving about the success of those same heads. Light and fast is not a good combination for expandables. They really require force/ momentum to drive them deep.

Those lower powered bows with light arrows are usually not as good with a 2 blade expandable. However, they work with flawless perfection using a fixed and COC style heads.

This gentleman's test is quite telling of this well-known situation. He is shooting a 27" draw at 63 pounds, unknown arrow weight. This is the very lowest level of power to use a two blade broadhead much less the choice of a 3 blade!

Interestingly I have that exact same bow and draw weight to hunt with. However, I'm shooting a 29" draw. Significantly more powerful with that additional 3" of thrust behind the arrow. Likely 30fps faster maybe more! After shooting many animals with the rage 2 blade, I decided I needed more power to drive that broadhead design or, I cannot use them.

I thought the Rage design was so good, especially with the Hypodermic design, I bought a bow that goes to 74 pounds, although I usually only draw it at 67pounds. Its a much faster cam design. The Elite Energy 32. I have never recovered an arrow in an animal with that bow. 100% of the Rage two blade heads have exited the opposite side. With the switchback 63lb bow, I was having arrows remain inside and not puncture the exit side of the body on several occasions. This was the factual determination of needed power to make those broadheads work.

I shot a 465lb Black bear at 25 yards broadside watching the arrow careen off the landscape out of sight with the luminock glowing throughout the flight. This was with the Rage Two blade hypodermic. That bear went 40 yards in a half circle and died only a few meters from my treestand. The blood could be seen spouting 12" high out of the entry hole. This was not an odd or unique result. I have killed 25 bears with a bow now. The last 5 were killed with the Hypodermic. The results were exactly the same with each one!

One cannot underestimate the power needed to drive those 2" wide blades clean through a body and the hide on both sides. It's not meant as a negative statement to anyone that cannot shoot a properly heavy bow, it's simply the physics needed to accomplish the task. I think there are now some manufacturers offering lighter draw weight mechanicals. Even the manufacturers have realized this condition.

With my 63lb switchback I will probably use a fixed blade, or COC head for the remainder of my hunting with that bow. When using my 67lb Elite, I cannot imagine ever using anything other than the hypodermic. If needed I can up the draw weight to 70plus and comfortably harvest anything in NA. Although I think it would be prudent to choose a COC even with the 70lb Elite if shooting Bison, Moose, or the thick hair of muskox.

Having seen the many dozens of broadheads myself, and my hunting clients have used, I cannot ever recall a more consistent and lethal performance of any broadhead then the Rage Hypodermic. Along the same lines, having seen hundreds of animals shot with arrows, I have not experienced better performance, and nowhere near the blood trails that are so typical with the 2 blade rage. On occasion, the blood trail does not start fantastic, but within 15-25 yards it's usually a bloodbath.

Of course, there will always be the anomaly of problems that happen. Hypodermics are not exempt from some type of problem, nobody can predict every circumstance. That's true of any projectile, whether it be a thrown knife, boomerang, bullet, arrow, or spear! Once you turn it loose all you can do is hope your planning and accuracy are true!

He's shooting through shoulder blade bone...the shot you don't want to take...with penetration issues...duh!

The problem I have with these "definitive" tests is that the inexperienced archer reads this as: "I can shoot through a shoulder blade with a Montec G-5"...instead of waiting for the right angle.



I might have said this way:

Once you turn it loose, all you can do is watch your planning and accuracy...!

Good post, JJ! Your experience is a welcome add.

too many try marginal shots these days
regardless of using a bow or firearm.

First off, shoulder blades are like skull and pelvis. They are relatively easy to penetrate compared to leg/shoulder bone and joints which are hard bone that splinters rather than crumbles.

I have taken 2 blade Rages and run them through shoulder blade as a science project. I did it with a crossbow and FMJs, but they go right through and do not damage the head. Humerus bone just below the shoulder joint was very effective at folding up the cutting tip of 2 blade Rages.

Shooting through bone with a bow of any kind is not a good idea. Even rib which is hard and springy is well and truly capable of deflecting bullets. The last deer I had whose rib deflected a bullet was a fawn that had been wounded the night before. I shot at it quartering away putting it in just behind the diaphragm and mid body angled to exit near the opposite shoulder. The bullet (160 grain cup and core) deflected off the rib and went upwards, through the chops and exited right above the spine. The deer likely would have survived that wound.

Aluminum ferrules just don't have the strength to stand up to much bone impact with much arrow weight behind them. Steel ferrules with SHARP points probably ought to be mandated minimums.

Whats your speed and arrow weight with the Elite? I bought a new Prime Rival a month or so back, just finally got it out shooting today since the weather was nice. Chrono was acting up so couldn't determine speed, but am shooting it around 70lb(60-70lb limbs bottomed out, haven't put it on the scale) 29.5dl and generally shoot about 425gr arrows. I bought some cheap chinese Hypodermics with the intent of using them as small game and coyote heads. They were pretty dull when they arrived but a few minutes apiece with the Worksharp fixed them up. Reading reviews on them indicates they seem to be working as well as the "real" Rage's, so if they work good on small creatures I might try them on deer. Still going to stick with ST's or Exodus heads for elk and moose though I think.

Always amusing to see these videos. Maybe next time he can shoot into a 5 gallon bucket of gravel.

Arrow setup is everything. Stiffer spine and high foc go a long way. Even at 27" draw i run a 300 spine arrow. Have been since 2014. They tune perfectly and group amazing out to 70yds. My arrow setup this yr is a Black Eagle Rampage 300 with 58grn stainless half out and 100grn swhacker broadheads. 400grain finished weight. 17% FOC. 309fps. They hit like a freight train and penetrate like crazy. Momentum is in the high. 5s.

claro, I'm shooting 435 grains total weight, at 290 with a 29" draw. This is at 67 pounds, at the maxed limb tightness of about 74lbs , I'm comfortably over 300 depending on the arrow weight.

I don't care to shoot above 67. It's done everything I need and never had the arrow remain inside an animal yet even with the 2" wide rage. It's an easier level of stealthy draw weight for me too. At 74lbs, I'm not as smooth and comfortable in my draw motion.

I must also mention that I have a young friend that is massively big and strong. He shoots a 31" draw at 85lbs with an Elite bow. He shoots over 500-grain arrows at 300plus FPS. He hs shot a number of medium sized wild hogs with this. The Rage broadheads fail miserably at this speed on tough grizzle plate and any bone. The pigs all die but they are a one shot use. That much power will destroy arrows and broadheads. So there is a limit to the functional impacts you can drive them with.

From my low end experience of 63 pounds with the switchback and a 425 grain arrow at about 265fps, to his 300fps with a 500 plus grain arrow there is a happy place in the middle. My 67pounds at 290 with a 435 grain arrow works flawlessly. I can use the hypodermics over and over with this power level. Just resharpen or change blades.

When they blow clean through a pig driven by 300fps with over 500 grains the blades twist around and then they hit the landscape on the other side just crushing the broadhead and the end of the shaft.

He is capable of astonishing accuracy at great distance and has more power available than anyone I've ever seen hunt with a bow. However, this too comes at a price!

Very true. Only arrow/broadhead combo ive seen stand up to that kind of power is the NAP Killzone/Easton FMJ 250. 682grains at 340fps. Im quite happy with my little mid weight arrow at 300fps. Deer have no chance. And in a few more weeks we shall see how it fares on pork. Havent decided if ill stick with mech heads or go back to my ST 100grn mags. Ive heard more than one horror story about mech heads and pigs. Even tho the swhacker is a tough head, i dont know if i can bring myself to run em

The one reason I cannot find interest in the swhacker is the small entry and quite often no exit. They open nice and wide but not upon entry only after they are inside.

I cannot see any advantage to a 1.5-2" wide broadhead that does not make a 1.5-2" wide entry hole. The Mechanicals have one simple advantage in my opinion. Following blood trails easily, allowing massive amounts of fluid to escape the body. This lets you find the game far easier and faster, with far superior reliability in tracking to the dead animal.

If I cannot have that, then I see no use in using them. A four blade fixed head has in some cases more actual cutting area than a 2" wide two blade. They just don't make the huge blood dripping gash that the 2" wide heads do.

The schwacker shot from a bow with the power to achieve an exit every time would be great. In Africa, on the medium and large antelopes, they certainly do not exit frequently. On adult male pigs they do not exit frequently either.

That is the definitive difference between the rage and the schwacker heads for me. That rage 2" wide Hypodermic will rip a 2" plus slice through the entry and all kinds of stuff pours out onto the ground!

Thanks JJ. I have been too busy to finish my post and questions for the most part.

I had used the small 3 blade 100 gr rocket head expandables for years with good success. I shot through several bucks.

Darn i gotta go. Will finish later.

Close shots. COC heads. Enough arrow weight. Stay off bones.

Its worked since about 1979 for me. Over 100 bow kills when I decided counting was dumb....

Worked well enough decided none of the new stuff really mattered much to me...

COC head

Toxic non-mechanical in shoulder

I know of two cases where a prong of a mechanical caught high weeds/flowers and turned the arrow down resulting in clean misses.

I passed once on a 4x4 bull crossing a small wet draw because the thick growth of fall flowers came to near the top of its back and i felt the mechanical wouldnt make it to him without catching a stem.

Now i use 4 blade muzzies.

Guys, i just got home from quail hunting and sat down to eat. I watched Natural Born Killers on Pursuit.

A guy was in an elevated box stand over green clover or something and a booner, thick, monster w tail comes by. He arrowed this giant dead center in the shoulder. Arrow didnt penetrate real deep and after recovering the arrow, they said it got 4-5 in. of penetration. Days of searching and no buck found.

Then, same buck seen on trail cam and soon after the hunter is in the same stand and booner again comes limping by.

This time he hit it behind the shoulder and got the deer of a lifetime

Moral: shoot COCs, as Rost said.