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Campfire Greenhorn
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I have been here in times of "No Oil" and "Oil". "Oil is better! Do you remember paying state income taxes on your outboard motor and your snowmachine? That really sucked! The biggest problem here is that the politicians spend a lot more than what is coming in. Folks get used to the benefits of State spending and the demand it as a "right". We all need less government. If we do get a chance to develop our own resources, We just need to keep the politicians from spending/wasting it all! We can let "those Sand Folks" eat their sand. With the recent developments in directional drilling, the drill site footprints will be smaller and further apart. Like Governor Hickle said Our oil discoveries are in just the right place. It's cold and practically uninhabited. We really don't hurt anyone if there is a problem. Look at all the money that comes into the NSB. Given a choice, I prefer "Oil".

Last edited by cdparker; 03/19/17.

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Originally Posted by Buck_
I live in Alaska because of the vast wilderness. To me, being able to walk or paddle, hunt or fish for days or weeks and not see another human being is worth more than a few years of oil.


I agree....as long as I have my own home with it's asphalt roofing, Tyvek® membraned, polyethylene vapor barriered, vinyl floored, poly plumbed, vinyl insulated electrical home and a lifetime supply of fuel for heating, or getting heating fuels, and transportation fuels. Other than that......oh, and a few miles of asphalt roads to drive on...oh, and a few tires as well as more plastics for my cars, snowmachines, ATVs, sleds....aw heck, I'm even willing to trade one or two of my sons, nephews...to go kill a few brown people and protect our 'right' to buy oil from them.

Quote
I think the mountain men would feel the same.


The mountain men would most likely not recognize most of the wusses who call themselves 'wilderness men' in today's world.

Quote
I don't buy the argument that only 2000 acres would be affected. There'd be pipelines and far more helicopters and airplanes.

I don't want to be camping on an ANWR night and see lights from an oil field. Check out the satellite photos of the lights of Prudhoe at night.


Even if you might see those lights from the 1% of the area from which they might be visible, I really doubt that it would affect any, other than the very smallest, minutest fraction of the population who might go there when it gets dark at night. And I already know of a gazmillion places in Alaska where I can travel 30 miles without the need for airplane access and not be able to see a single light or glow from human-sourced lights.

Quote
If I wanted to see wilderness developed for maximum profit I'd live in the Lower 48. That used to be wilderness too.


I hate development as much as the next person, but reality is an unfortunate and unavoidable.......'reality'. The population of the state has nearly doubled in the short time I've been here. There is a vast portion of the population which has never really been 'to Alaska'I suspect (based on what they know - or don't). Realize that the Alaska you wish it was would be just fine without newcomers like Fairbanks and Anchorage.


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Originally Posted by cdparker
I have been here in times of "No Oil" and "Oil". "Oil is better! Do you remember paying state income taxes on your outboard motor and your snowmachine? That really sucked! The biggest problem here is that the politicians spend a lot more than what is coming in. Folks get used to the benefits of State spending and the demand it as a "right". We all need less government. If we do get a chance to develop our own resources, We just need to keep the politicians from spending/wasting it all! We can let "those Sand Folks" eat their sand. With the recent developments in directional drilling, the drill site footprints will be smaller and further apart. Like Governor Hickle said Our oil discoveries are in just the right place. It's cold and practically uninhabited. We really don't hurt anyone if there is a problem. Look at all the money that comes into the NSB. Given a choice, I prefer "Oil".


Craig is that you? Haven't talked in years. We quit shooting in 2004 or so IIRC, as dad was dying... now try to visit AK every fall.

Jeff and Carolyn


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Jeff-PM to me your email.
Craig


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Originally Posted by Buck_
I live in Alaska because of the vast wilderness. To me, being able to walk or paddle, hunt or fish for days or weeks and not see another human being is worth more than a few years of oil. I think the mountain men would feel the same.

I don't buy the argument that only 2000 acres would be affected. There'd be pipelines and far more helicopters and airplanes.

I don't want to be camping on an ANWR night and see lights from an oil field. Check out the satellite photos of the lights of Prudhoe at night.

If I wanted to see wilderness developed for maximum profit I'd live in the Lower 48. That used to be wilderness too.


Buck-The more that I think about your post, the more upset I get. It is quite obvious that you have never even been to that part of Alaska. Much less flown into or even over that area. I have. I have hunted in March, along the Canning River South to the mountains. We went for Sheep on a registration hunt in March. That was before Point Thomson was discovered. We left from Dead Hoarse and traveled East on an Ice Road to the Canning River and then South. You wouldn't like us--we rode those noisy, stinky snowmachines. I have to admit that for two weeks-we did not see or hear any manmade sounds except ours. I see from your website that you used a stinky noisy airplane to get to your drop off/put-in. So I guess that when you want to, it's OK for you to disturb someone else's peace and quiet. This is a huge place and you can find a lot of room to go and have your Wilderness Experience". I don't know if you would intentionally bar the folks at Kaktovik the opportunity to use their boats, wheelers or snowmachines or even use their lights for fear of disturbing your wilderness. You just might see the reflection from their village or hear their mode of transportation. Put on your REI approved gear, throw your canoe up and hike another 100 miles South. Like others have said, the pipelines will go straight West and then south in the existing pipeline. Now the only thing that you might bump into is the site at Point Thomson. I suppose that even seeing that would disturb you. What I am trying to tell you is "Get your facts" before you go and show your true colors about locking up the State so that you Can have that Wilderness Experience" you crave. Oh, leave your SPOT at home. That way you will not hear or see the helicopter come and rescue you when a disaster happens. I'm still not sure that traveling alone is a real good idea either.
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Originally Posted by cdparker
Originally Posted by Buck_
I live in Alaska because of the vast wilderness. To me, being able to walk or paddle, hunt or fish for days or weeks and not see another human being is worth more than a few years of oil. I think the mountain men would feel the same.

I don't buy the argument that only 2000 acres would be affected. There'd be pipelines and far more helicopters and airplanes.

I don't want to be camping on an ANWR night and see lights from an oil field. Check out the satellite photos of the lights of Prudhoe at night.

If I wanted to see wilderness developed for maximum profit I'd live in the Lower 48. That used to be wilderness too.


Buck-The more that I think about your post, the more upset I get. It is quite obvious that you have never even been to that part of Alaska. Much less flown into or even over that area. I have. I have hunted in March, along the Canning River South to the mountains. We went for Sheep on a registration hunt in March. That was before Point Thomson was discovered. We left from Dead Hoarse and traveled East on an Ice Road to the Canning River and then South. You wouldn't like us--we rode those noisy, stinky snowmachines. I have to admit that for two weeks-we did not see or hear any manmade sounds except ours. I see from your website that you used a stinky noisy airplane to get to your drop off/put-in. So I guess that when you want to, it's OK for you to disturb someone else's peace and quiet. This is a huge place and you can find a lot of room to go and have your Wilderness Experience". I don't know if you would intentionally bar the folks at Kaktovik the opportunity to use their boats, wheelers or snowmachines or even use their lights for fear of disturbing your wilderness. You just might see the reflection from their village or hear their mode of transportation. Put on your REI approved gear, throw your canoe up and hike another 100 miles South. Like others have said, the pipelines will go straight West and then south in the existing pipeline. Now the only thing that you might bump into is the site at Point Thomson. I suppose that even seeing that would disturb you. What I am trying to tell you is "Get your facts" before you go and show your true colors about locking up the State so that you Can have that Wilderness Experience" you crave. Oh, leave your SPOT at home. That way you will not hear or see the helicopter come and rescue you when a disaster happens. I'm still not sure that traveling alone is a real good idea either.
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Well said... made a few points for me better than I could. I started a few times and got pissy.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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You mean you couldn't get past f-n tree huggin hypocrite?

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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
You mean you couldn't get past f-n tree huggin hypocrite?


Yeah, that is about it.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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I've really enjoyed Bucks blogs and pix of his adventures

He does some cool stuff and traveling solo? I'm guilty as well, though I've not gone on as long of adventures as Buck has solo


And I'm not trying to pile on, but I too sense a bit of hypocrisy in his take on no development in anwr. I've been fortunate to tramp around in ANWR a fair bit

We're an extraction economy pure and simple


It's an outdoor forum by and large, I've never seen these guys cry out for paving paradise , but most of them have families, homes, autos and bills and use planes just like Buck

We gotta eat, which means we probably are gonna need to do some drilling

Just seems factual to me


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Oh and Buck has been in ANWR Pretty sure I read of his exploits of hiking & floating east border to west coast

He gets around and sees some stuff, I just disagree with him about drilling in ANWR


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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I don't think Buck is wrong for having an opinion, hell I agree, I'd like to see less folks on this planet period. And we could start by thinning some of the ones off this website for starters. LOL

But reality says, IMHO, its not that large of an impact, and again, I'd rather be a bit independent when it comes to energy, rather than rely on Isis provided energy.

And I really don't think Buck disagrees either so much, he realizes, but yet is holding out hope....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I get serious heart burn with elitists. I.e. I got mine, but F everyone else.

I would like to see the same opportunities for my children and grand children as well as the children and grandchildren of friends and neighbors throughout the state. That requires a balance of protecting the wild places and just as importantly providing an economy that allows for jobs for them as well as a stable tax base.

Most Alaskans are beyond clueless as to how they have benefitted from the oil industry. I'm not just talking about fuel to stay warm, power to transport them around the state and synthetic clothing. I'm talking about the infrastructure around the state that would not exist without the billions in tax revenue over the past 40 years not to mention the majority of government jobs that wouldn't exist without the $ from oil.

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There are tons of things in AK infrastructure wise as you point out, not possible money wise without the influx of the revenue from oil in one form or another.

In the meantime I go home and have to see a neighbor from where we live and I"m still mad about that.

Soon enough I'll see my bosses house on top of it. Ugh....Lol


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by 458 Lott

Most Alaskans are beyond clueless as to how they have benefitted from the oil industry. I'm not just talking about fuel to stay warm, power to transport them around the state and synthetic clothing. I'm talking about the infrastructure around the state that would not exist without the billions in tax revenue over the past 40 years not to mention the majority of government jobs that wouldn't exist without the $ from oil.



true stuff right there ^


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by 458 Lott


Most Alaskans are beyond clueless as to how they have benefitted from the oil industry. I'm not just talking about fuel to stay warm, power to transport them around the state and synthetic clothing. I'm talking about the infrastructure around the state that would not exist without the billions in tax revenue over the past 40 years not to mention the majority of government jobs that wouldn't exist without the $ from oil.


I'm a newby to urban Alaska, so I'm still in the pondering stage about what makes places like Fairbanks 'float', with all it's Seattle-ites, Tennessee-ites, Colorado-ites, and every other flavor of 'ite' you can imagine, which seem to outnumber the folks who have actually spent time in the greater part of the state. And as near as I can tell, it's oil and all its peripherals, and the military bases of Wainright and Eilison. Pull the plug on them and the unions would cry and die, and at least half the population would wither and go away. Grocery prices would go up, selection would go down, real estate prices would drop, $10 jobs would be scarcer than $50 jobs are now.

Air services would diminish in service and some would disappear, while prices would increase (as competition and volume decreased.) Life would become a lot less convenient for many folks. It would be wonderful....for some.

Last edited by Klikitarik; 03/22/17.

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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by 458 Lott
You mean you couldn't get past f-n tree huggin hypocrite?


Yeah, that is about it.



Yeah, I was thinking about invoking Joe Vogler and have him freeze in the dark.


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I think every state should set aside an area equal to ANWR for wilderness, that and ban any 'urban' areas larger than"area 1002", (the area proposed for potential development in ANWR).

* the states of Rhode Island, Delaware, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont, Hawaii, West Virginia, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Maryland would all, of course, be returned to wilderness. I wouldn't have any problem with that.


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Seems fair.


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Works for me.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Klikitarik
I think every state should set aside an area equal to ANWR for wilderness, that and ban any 'urban' areas larger than"area 1002", (the area proposed for potential development in ANWR).

* the states of Rhode Island, Delaware, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont, Hawaii, West Virginia, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Maryland would all, of course, be returned to wilderness. I wouldn't have any problem with that.

Obviously you haven't negotiated with the Eskimos living there in Alaska which aren't present in the lower 49, since all the aboriginals have been wiped out or displaced in those areas.


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