24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,041
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,041
Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Maybe the question should have been, "Who would not go elk hunting if you only had a .270"?

Answer, no-one.

ingwe

BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,901
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,901
Well, he might take "the little .270," his 6.8 SPC. After all, ingwe is a notorious stunt-shooter.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,041
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,041
And, his leopard print attire suggests he's secure in his manhood, not needing a magnum...

Last edited by Whttail_in_MT; 03/12/17.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
"Use enough thong."



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,734
B
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,734
Much of this debate boils down to personal confidence based on successful elk hunts. When some start at the "higher end", they may modify their thoughts as tags are punched. Over time they see that elk are equally are vulnerable as deer are. They prove to themselves that placement with an adequate bullet is the answer.


My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 397
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 397
Quote
Still waiting.


I have a real life that doesn't involve internet forums so if you have to wait an hour, a day, a week or a year for a response you'll have to learn to deal with it if that sort of thing is important to you. It's not to me. I don't know you, I don't answer to you, I don't care how many posts you have on a forum that implies that you spend more time here than out there, I don't owe you anything and I don't spend time thinking about you or this when I'm doing the things that are important. If you want to hunt elk with a .270 Win that's your choice. Regardless, if you really need to talk to me then come up to NW Montana and we can have this conversation face to face. I'll show you around the office, introduce you to some hunters who don't use a .270 Win and we'll set up the conference room so that you can talk to the entire company and educate all of us Montana hunters as to why we're a bunch of macho idiots for using anything bigger than a .270 Win. You can explain to one of my best friends who spent 20 years as a MHP officer, and who's a seriously good shooter who's hunted this state for over 30 years, why he's an idiot for reversing his decision a couple of years ago to drop down from a 300 WSM Browning A-Bolt to a .308 Win Montana 84M for elk hunting after a day hunting with his brother outside Great Falls. You can explain to him that his brother must be incompetent since the three 180gr TTSX bullets that all ended up under the skin on the far side, two of which went through the lungs and one of which passed through the heart, still allowed a nice bull elk to walk 30 yards and almost topple over the edge of a coolie. You can explain that a .270 Win would have been so much better because it's all about shot placement and holes.

I do care about my hunting experience and my interpretation of data combined with that of numerous coworkers and friends that have hunted up here in MT and all over the world for years, have taken hundreds of animals, work in the firearms industry and don't spend their lives on forums. I care about the experience of my good friend who's been a professional guide for 30 years, who is paid to speak all over the country and who won't use anything smaller than a .300 Win Mag for elk. He's not on this forum though so what does he know. What a loser! He just guides, speaks at events, has a hunting show and makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year doing what he loves. Yep, a real ignorant loser! Like I stated earlier, I don't know anyone who hunts elk with a .270 Win anymore. Does that mean the .270 Win is a bad choice, I don't care. Maybe it's because everyone I know and work with live and breath MT air, many were born here, many have been here 40+ years. You really need to come up here and convince me and others that we're idiots.

I don't have the impressive qualifications of the 20,000+ crowd here but I do have two degrees in mechanical engineering including an MS, have been shooting, reloading and hunting for decades, worked for Remington as an R&D engineer, have a couple of patents pending related to military projects and firearms, spent more than ten years as a research engineer on military projects and currently work as an engineer in the firearms industry in addition to consulting for a couple of other non-compete companies. What I've come to accept it that everything is statistical probability and a whole lot of Gaussian distribution. Ammunition velocity, tolerance stacks in firearms, manufacturing of parts, internal/external/terminal ballistics, accuracy, precision, animal physiology, how elk die and on and on is all governed by the math of probability. My choice is to move the boundary conditions as far apart as possible with the tools available which include bullet mass, bullet velocity, bullet construction and firearm proficiency.

One individual in the R&D group at Remington killed a deer in upstate NY many years ago with a rock. He wasn't proud of it but it sure worked. Maybe that's what I need, a backpack full of rocks. He surely proved that only whiny little bitches need firearms.




Offering FFL 07 & SOT services in NW Montana
[email protected]
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
I like to use enough gun.

Simple yes or no question, no MS in engineering or gaussian distributions required:

Are you saying a .270 Win. is not enough gun?



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,895
S
SLM Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,895
Elk threads are always good entertainment.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,054
3
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,054
I sure miss BibinNH

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
So in other words you've never killed an elk.


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
IC B3

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,709
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,709
I find it interesting the debate goes on to cartridge alone without thinking about maximum effective range. Like for instance.....one could harvest an elk with a recurve 60 pound bow to perhaps 50 yards, a 70 pound compound perhaps 80. But with a rifle no one really discusses range cartridge relationships. I purpose the following dogma. With a traditional cup and core or lead projectile..... twice the foot pounds of energy upon impact that the animal weighs. Sectional density for elk at about .250. With monolithics drop the sectional density by 30 percent but look for a minimum of 1800 feet per second upon impact. Then each caliber and each bullet could generate a maximum effective range?


"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,786
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,786
What I find odd, is that I was born, and grew up in Montana and knew/know some pretty darn good elk hunters.

About the last g-damn thing that any good elk hunters I knew/know talked about, or argued about, were the rifles and calibers they shot. Know some that have used .243's for years, some have shot 25-06, 270's, 308's, 300's, 7 mags, 338's. The thing they all had in common, was they killed a metric [bleep] ton of elk. The caliber they chose to pack didn't make them the elk hunters they were. I also don't recall many giving advice to anyone on what they should be using for a rifle or caliber.

They worried more about the best way to get an elk back to the truck, where to hunt, when and how to hunt a particular ridge, when to take their vacations...you know things that mattered about actually killing and hunting elk.

I've sort of come full circle myself...started with a 6mm Remington, shot my first few with that, moved to a hand-me-down 30/06 for years, moved up to a 338 for a long time, killing 35 elk along the way. Since 2006, I've shot another 30 elk, all but one of those with either a 7RM or 7-08.

I find myself often wondering why some people still give the advice of a 30 magnum, 338, etc. when I know for a fact that they simply are NOT necessary. I even question why I ever felt the need for a .338? Not taking away anything about the .338, as it performed on elk, I had great results. But, like others have mentioned, they are NO fun to lug around, and even less fun to shoot.

I just cant see myself arguing that a .270 isn't enough gun for elk...or arguing that all the "good elk hunters from Montana only use 300 mags and larger".

Just isn't based on reality.


Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,423
"270 win is not good enough for elk" said the dbag who has never killed an elk.

[Linked Image]

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,719
W
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,719
A rancher I know has killed lots of elk with a ..222 & you worry over a .270!!!


Molon Labe
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 272
R
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 272
Here in Idaho the .270 and 30-06 are very popular for elk. I'm assuming the same in Montana. My cousin has killed his elk with the same Ruger .270 every year for the last 30 years. My bull I shot this year with my .270 win. was at 235 yards and dropped at the shot. A 150 partition broke the shoulder, punched the lungs, and yanked the rug out from under him. I have been off the forum for some time and just found out Bob passed. We corresponded about the .270 and other topics. He would have been in the middle of this one! RIP Bob.


"The 270 Winchester is the consumate mountain cartridge and everything else just eats its dust and chases its tail from the standpoint of days on the mountain and hoofs in the air....."BobinNH
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
Originally Posted by MCMXI
Quote
Still waiting.


drop down from a 300 WSM Browning A-Bolt to a .308 Win Montana 84M for elk hunting after a day hunting with his brother outside Great Falls. You can explain to him that his brother must be incompetent since the three 180gr TTSX bullets that all ended up under the skin on the far side, two of which went through the lungs and one of which passed through the heart, still allowed a nice bull elk to walk 30 yards and almost topple over the edge of a coolie.



Not to be too big a Richard but the highlighted text is the likely culprit - not the cartridge. If I'm reading your post correctly, using a 180 TSX in a 308 is not correctly matching the bullet-cartridge-game. I now understand why his elk took 3, 180 TSX's to kill it - its not a cartridge issue. I am a bit surprised it only went 30 yards given the artillery used. I'm not sure any cartridge/bullet combo will keep an elk from moving 30 yards - 30 yards isn't that far. Carry on.

Last edited by bwinters; 03/13/17.

Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,813
Thinking about this a bit more - how far was the elk in question that was shot with the 308/180 TSX? Seems a 308 should be able to drive the 180 to 2550 or so - and that all 3 TSXs should have exited. I'd also like to see the recovered bullets if they are available.


Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,211
Originally Posted by MCMXI
You can explain to one of my best friends who spent 20 years as a MHP officer, and who's a seriously good shooter who's hunted this state for over 30 years, why he's an idiot for reversing his decision a couple of years ago to drop down from a 300 WSM Browning A-Bolt to a .308 Win Montana 84M for elk hunting after a day hunting with his brother outside Great Falls. You can explain to him that his brother must be incompetent since the three 180gr TTSX bullets that all ended up under the skin on the far side, two of which went through the lungs and one of which passed through the heart, still allowed a nice bull elk to walk 30 yards and almost topple over the edge of a coolie. You can explain that a .270 Win would have been so much better because it's all about shot placement and holes.


OMG, the horror! An elk walked 30 yards after being shot! News alert!

Of course, using a 180 TSX from a 308 is a questionable move. I wouldn't call it "incompetent", just uninformed. I'd not use more than a 150, and even then, as I've posted before, I've seen a 150 TTSX not open at modest 308 speeds on elk. Better to have used a more frangilbe bullet with some "grenade" effect. A 165 Cup and Core is my choice in the 308. Hey wait, that's what I generally use on elk!

And yes, most bullets from a 270 would have been better than the 180 TSX/308 combo...


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,726
Originally Posted by BuzzH
They worried more about the best way to get an elk back to the truck, where to hunt, when and how to hunt a particular ridge, when to take their vacations...you know things that mattered about actually killing and hunting elk.


Good post buzz, but you forgot "boots." grin



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,266
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,266
This has been an interesting and entertaining read. I believe only "elkhunternm" mentioned the Nosler 160gr Partition. I've used it on the two elk I've shot with my 270 Win. Worked wonderful! Surprised it doesn't get much mention, it's a damn good bullet.

Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
646 members (01Foreman400, 222ND, 160user, 1234, 257 roberts, 1lessdog, 70 invisible), 2,769 guests, and 1,375 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,654
Posts18,399,211
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.100s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9210 MB (Peak: 1.0807 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 18:48:20 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS