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I've enjoyed reading your books and articles and have learned a lot. welcome.

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Wayne, I hope that you had success with the 25-35. That's doing it the hard way. I fired two rounds, a coyote at 280+ and a "goat" at 400(give or take a few yards). The wife,in fading light on our last day, offhanded one at just over a hundred. Both goats were a little better than average. We had passed on several good ones earlier in the season, but needed to fill tags! The most memorable part of the hunting was making accurate shots. memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Wayne, I have a question about "hot" (to put it mildly) loads for the 26 Nosler. I have owned 2, and simply could not get them to shoot accurately shooting min to max book loads. It seems as though everyone I talk to that has an accurate one is shooting approximately 80 grns of Retumbo behind a 140 grn bullet, and are having no pressure issues. How is this possible? I would think that one of these guys would have blown their own head off by now. Do you think it is just a matter of time? Any info would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter


Wayne, what pizzes me off is some of these new hunters lack of ethics. They spray lead and go and pick up their critters. They don't care how many other animals or people (for that matter) get wounded or killed in the process. My elk hunting partner and I witnessed this happen 2 days ago on the opening day of first season general season bull hunt here in Oregon. These guys fired off 40 rounds (at least) at these elk and went and picked up the remains. The other elk went crashing though the woods. We circled around and got ahead of the herd and my buddy shot a wounded bull that these guys had injured. It was shot twice. Once in the hind end and another grazed the front leg. My buddy could have taken a bigger bull in the bunch, but didn't want to leave this one to die in the woods. It's one thing to shoot an animal at "long range" and make that shot count, but to spray and pray and wound and maim critters in the process is just sickening to me.... I almost went to have a talk with these fu ckers, but figured a heated debate with guns involved would only lead to more nonsense. There were 4 shooters there, they fired a minimum of 40 rounds and dropped 2 elk. Wounded who knows how many. It's guys like these that give good hunters a bad name.



Well, this whole idea that hunting ethics have gone down doesn't really fit. Go read any JOC book and read of how much lead he and his associates slung at unknown distances with wounded game lost. Read some books written before his time when game was thought unlimited and many didn't even bother to track wounded animals as it was easier to just shoot another. A couple of good examples are the books by Sheldon and Hornaday written about hunting in the early 1900s.

Hunting has actually become more ethical over time as resources dwindle and awareness is increased. Sure, there are some bad folks out there, but there's probably more unethical people shooting short than long. Overall, hunters are more ethical now than they've ever been.


Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Welcome Wayne,

Really enjoyed Elk & Elk Hunting, liked your presentation at RMEF Elk Camp a few years ago, enjoy your articles in Bugle.
Look forward to your contributions here.

Greg

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Thank you for the kind words, Greg. I do appreciate them!
Good hunting! .... WvZ

Originally Posted by Alamosa
Welcome Wayne,

Really enjoyed Elk & Elk Hunting, liked your presentation at RMEF Elk Camp a few years ago, enjoy your articles in Bugle.
Look forward to your contributions here.

Greg

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It seems to me your friend chose an ethical path, killing the crippled bull. I've done the same. Poor shooting leaves many animals in the woods to die. Distance has become the whipping boy, but I've seen game poorly hit at very close range. "Too far" is too far to make a lethal first-round hit under prevailing circumstances. I agree that the hype around long shooting has encouraged many irresponsible people to act irresponsibly at greater range. It's a loss for all of us. .... WvZ

Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter


Wayne, what pizzes me off is some of these new hunters lack of ethics. They spray lead and go and pick up their critters. They don't care how many other animals or people (for that matter) get wounded or killed in the process. My elk hunting partner and I witnessed this happen 2 days ago on the opening day of first season general season bull hunt here in Oregon. These guys fired off 40 rounds (at least) at these elk and went and picked up the remains. The other elk went crashing though the woods. We circled around and got ahead of the herd and my buddy shot a wounded bull that these guys had injured. It was shot twice. Once in the hind end and another grazed the front leg. My buddy could have taken a bigger bull in the bunch, but didn't want to leave this one to die in the woods. It's one thing to shoot an animal at "long range" and make that shot count, but to spray and pray and wound and maim critters in the process is just sickening to me.... I almost went to have a talk with these fu ckers, but figured a heated debate with guns involved would only lead to more nonsense. There were 4 shooters there, they fired a minimum of 40 rounds and dropped 2 elk. Wounded who knows how many. It's guys like these that give good hunters a bad name.



Well, this whole idea that hunting ethics have gone down doesn't really fit. Go read any JOC book and read of how much lead he and his associates slung at unknown distances with wounded game lost. Read some books written before his time when game was thought unlimited and many didn't even bother to track wounded animals as it was easier to just shoot another. A couple of good examples are the books by Sheldon and Hornaday written about hunting in the early 1900s.

Hunting has actually become more ethical over time as resources dwindle and awareness is increased. Sure, there are some bad folks out there, but there's probably more unethical people shooting short than long. Overall, hunters are more ethical now than they've ever been.

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I've had limited experience loading the .26 and have yet to exceed 78 grains with Retumbo behind 140s (3,320 fps). I've driven 129s safely 3,475 with 80 grains RL-25. Of course, rifles differ; you may find these loads hot or not in yours. I'd try US 869; Nosler people told me early on it was performing very well. You'll look hard to find a powder too slow behind heavy bullets in the .26. As for accuracy, you didn't say what standard you expect. This isn't a Benchrest cartridge. My loads haven't broken into the sub-MOA club; but neither do many big game loads in many rifles. ....WvZ

Originally Posted by jackhammer922
Wayne, I have a question about "hot" (to put it mildly) loads for the 26 Nosler. I have owned 2, and simply could not get them to shoot accurately shooting min to max book loads. It seems as though everyone I talk to that has an accurate one is shooting approximately 80 grns of Retumbo behind a 140 grn bullet, and are having no pressure issues. How is this possible? I would think that one of these guys would have blown their own head off by now. Do you think it is just a matter of time? Any info would be appreciated.

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Hey Wayne!! Welcome!! It’s been awhile since I stopped by the fire myself! So hey guys and gals!! BTW I really enjoyed your article in the reloading section on this site goning to do some googling later on your other work!!!

The Question:

Ok I won a 7MM Rem Magnum 700 Remington sps 26” tube 1:9 ¼ twist in a raffle(I should have bought a lottery ticket to, I won 2 rifles on the same ticket 2 days apart, no lie), I broke in the barrel, installed an HS Precision stock, bedded the action, and trying to work up a load for it. I would like to use some of the powders I have in stock, RL-25, H-1000, Rotumbo(sp?), RL-33, I have some faster powders 4831, 4350, etc to. I ordered Nosler Accubond 150 Long Range (BC .611) Berger 168 VLD target (BC .628) and Serria MK 178 (BC .608) that I thought I would start working up with Nosler brass. My goal is really punching paper at long range as I have my go to hunting rigs already and not really concerned with taking game with this rifle. Any thoughts on where your would start, projectiles to omit or use (or order?) Thanks for any help and advice you could provide!!

Cheers

Curt

Last edited by Superiorfirepwr; 02/16/17.
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Thank you for the welcome, Curt. I envy you for your good fortune in raffles. But I won't challenge a shelf full of loading manuals with a detailed reply. My leanings would be to slow powders with bullets heavier than 150 grains. Most of my loading for the 7 RM has been with 4831. Slower fuel seems to me appropriate for bullets in the 175-180 range. I've had good luck with IMR 7828 in heavy-bullet loads for the .264 WM. Retumbo and RL-25 would be my next picks, but you really haven't named any losers.... WvZ

Originally Posted by Superiorfirepwr
Hey Wayne!! Welcome!! It’s been awhile since I stopped by the fire myself! So hey guys and gals!! BTW I really enjoyed your article in the reloading section on this site goning to do some googling later on your other work!!!

The Question:

Ok I won a 7MM Rem Magnum 700 Remington sps 26” tube 1:9 ¼ twist in a raffle(I should have bought a lottery ticket to, I won 2 rifles on the same ticket 2 days apart, no lie), I broke in the barrel, installed an HS Precision stock, bedded the action, and trying to work up a load for it. I would like to use some of the powders I have in stock, RL-25, H-1000, Rotumbo(sp?), RL-33, I have some faster powders 4831, 4350, etc to. I ordered Nosler Accubond 150 Long Range (BC .611) Berger 168 VLD target (BC .628) and Serria MK 178 (BC .608) that I thought I would start working up with Nosler brass. My goal is really punching paper at long range as I have my go to hunting rigs already and not really concerned with taking game with this rifle. Any thoughts on where your would start, projectiles to omit or use (or order?) Thanks for any help and advice you could provide!!

Cheers

Curt

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Welcome to the fire Wayne.

I first noticed your work in the Gun Digest. I do not have any magazine subscriptions but I do buy books. Is there a website where I can find some of your books?

And I too have enjoyed your writings.


If you reload, there's no such thing as an obsolete cartridge.

Once you render an opinion, you open yourself up to criticism.
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Thanks Wayne!

Time to get started :-)

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Wayne, I met you once at a NRA Annual Meeting. I even got your autograph. You're the read deal.

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Nice to have you here Wayne....
Was great to watch your 603yd bull elk kill with one of my favorite cartridges; the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I've also enjoyed many of your articles....
It really is great that we have so many talented people here on the 'Fire!
Johnny


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Thank you for the kind words! I hope you enjoy the 2017 NRA event, coming up soon!.... WvZ

Originally Posted by model70man
Wayne, I met you once at a NRA Annual Meeting. I even got your autograph. You're the read deal.

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Originally Posted by WvZ
Thank you! I'm sure I'll learn something around this campfire -- initially how to listen and talk across it!

Maybe how to duck... shocked

Welcome aboard, your input always welcomed.

I've enjoyed your work for years, won't say how many... blush

That would be telling on us both...

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Joel, I'm sorry I missed seeing your post earlier, a good question. As you point out, exposed lead at the nose doesn't cleave air as well as pointed polymer, and lead-tipped bullets aren't chosen for shooting at extreme range. Further, I suspect that measuring changes in tip shape during flight would be more difficult with lead noses, as they're not as uniform as polymer tips. Hollowpoints like Sierra's MatchKing would not show tip melt... WvZ

Originally Posted by joelkdouglas
WVZ, welcome!

From your article: "Joe Thielen sums it up: "To oversimplify, impaired flight due to tip melt happens to bullets with a starting BC of .550, at 3,000 ft/sec exit speed, over ranges exceeding 300 yards.""

Really interesting statement.

Do you know of any info on the effect of heat on other bullet types, such as hollow point (I assume negligible) and lead tipped? Of course lead tipped bullets don't have high BCs, so the comparison may not be a fair one.

Thanks!
v/r
Joel

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I like the Nosler AccuBond for shots on the long side of your bracket, but the Swift A-Frame and Federal Trophy Bonded are my picks up close. That said, I've shot more elk with Nosler Partitions. If you can wring 2900 from an '06, you should be able to hurl 180s fast enough to give them the edge. To 300 yards, a .30-06 should work fine -- or a short .30 magnum like the .308 Norma or .300 Winchester. ... WvZ

Originally Posted by labarr
WvZ, I was wondering how to get you on board, but glad it didn't wait on me to happen!

I will start with a very iffy question: Assume that I can get 2900 fps from a 165gr 30-06. Which bullet would you choose if you hunted where the shot could be 50 yd or 300 yd on elk or large deer?

Next, would you choose a 180 gr instead if accuracy was similar? Again, which bullet for the same situation?

I know there are a thousand other situations, but what are your thoughts with the current situation where a hunt is a rare experience [and expensive!]. Would you rather have a 300
Wby or similar in this circumstance?

Thanks much for your thoughts.

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I've not used that charge in the .26. Nosler does list 120s with up to 83 grains Retumbo, and I suspect that's conservative. Reducing the recommendation to 74 grains as a maximum load for 129-grain bullets, as Nosler does in its manual, seems a big drop too. FYI, I've had good results from very slow powder over recommended charges in the .264 Win. Mag. This isn't a recommendation that you try them in the .26, but throats and other variables open possibilities you can explore one carefully measured grain at a time I've had only modest success getting the accuracy I expected from a Nosler rifle in .26.... WvZ

Originally Posted by jackhammer922
Wayne, I have a question about "hot" (to put it mildly) loads for the 26 Nosler. I have owned 2, and simply could not get them to shoot accurately shooting min to max book loads. It seems as though everyone I talk to that has an accurate one is shooting approximately 80 grns of Retumbo behind a 140 grn bullet, and are having no pressure issues. How is this possible? I would think that one of these guys would have blown their own head off by now. Do you think it is just a matter of time? Any info would be appreciated.

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Leonten, my apologies for the late reply. I've no website selling books but do keep some on hand for people who write me at my mailing (not my home) address: 2610 Highland Drive, Bridgeport WA 98813. .... WvZ

Originally Posted by Leonten
Welcome to the fire Wayne.

I first noticed your work in the Gun Digest. I do not have any magazine subscriptions but I do buy books. Is there a website where I can find some of your books?

And I too have enjoyed your writings.

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