Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Winchester 94 'smiths/experts?

I picked up a couple mid 70s Winchester 94's yesterday for dirt cheap, but they are in fairly rough shape. Both sets of bores actually cleaned up nicely, but they do have a decent amount of external pitting and rusting. One of the guns cleaned up OK, but the other has more pitting. Wood on both is good, but will certainly need refinishing. The guns are mechanically sound, just need a lot of TLC.

I've always wanted to do a Marlin Texan clone with a 94, except cutting the barrel down to 16" and chopping down the mag tube half way. I have two Marlin 30 TK's, which were basically the KMart version of the Texan, and now I want a Winchester to match. I've also always wanted to rechamber one in .30-30 Improved, and have been sitting on a set of dies for the eventual conversion for years. Now, I know some people just run in a reamer and call it a day, but everything I've read recommends setting the barrel back enough to cut a new chamber. My goal would be to keep .30-30 velocities, but in a 16" barrel.

How difficult is it to remove and headspace a 94 barrel? I know it headspaces on the rim, but most suggest setting up the dies on the Improved to headpace on the shoulder. I'd like to do everything myself, and keep cost down...its just not worth throwing a lot of money at the guns. I have a barrel vise, but not sure what type of action wrench I would need. I know I will also have to recut the extractor notch at the 12 o'clock position, but that shouldn't be too difficult. I have a lathe, so cutting and recrowning the barrel won't be a problem.

Any suggestions? I know the actions can't be reblued, so I will look into some kind of coating for them....but still do a homemade hot-bluing on the rest of the parts.

A lot of dovetail cuts to change when moving the barrel in on a 94. A full turn would be desirable to line up sights and dovetail cuts, I do not remember the thread pattern but you can calculate how far a full turn would move the chamber in. Trim off the chamber end, recut the ejecter notch should be most of the items to do.

I am not sure how you would deal with the dovetail cuts that are moved to the rear and do not line up with the mag tube holder dovetail blocks.

After posting I realized mine is an older 94. The newer ones used clamps I think. So much easier.

The only notch that will be of any real consequence is the forend notch, but it will be covered by the forend (and a new one can be easily cut). Of course, it depends entirely on how far the barrel is set back. The front sight (which is soldered in place) and front barrel band notch won't be an issue, as they will be gone once the barrel is chopped to 16".

Rear sight dovetail could potentially be an issue, but ideally it will simply be clocked back into correct position (which will keep the lettering lined up correctly as well).

I would be interested in reading thoughts on the reason for setting the barrel back when reaming the chamber.
I am not a gunsmith but I have reamed four .30-30AI chambers - 3 Model 94's and 1 Marlin. All four rifles have equal or better accuracy after reaming to the Improved chamber.
All lever action chambers are cut with an oval at the base of the cartridge to assist with feeding. You will see this as you cut the chamber. The reamer not be able to clean up the top of the chamber. This has no affect on case life or accuracy as I can see.
Today the .30-30AI is obsolete due to the introduction of the .308 Marlin Express. This is where I would look if I wanted higher performance. The case is easier to work with and you have two additional grains of water capacity over the .30-30AI.

Headspacing on the rim would eliminate the need.

My understanding is, and I admit my knowledge is very limited on the subject, is the .30-30 AI reamer doesn't clean up the chamber perfectly, and won't allow a crush fit when forming brass. Of course, I have no idea how accurate this is, I've never actually tried forming any.

William, did you buy a reamer or simply rent one?

I'll draw the standard and Improved cased for you. Visual is better. The Improved .30-30 pushes the shoulder forward. The only way to get a crush fit is to neck up the case and then form a shoulder. Best to start off with new cases and a full power .30-30 load. If you search .30-30AI on the shooters forum there are several threads about forming cases.
I bought a reamer. I and several other people have used it. It does not take long to ream a chamber. I have not experienced any feeding problems nor do I personally know of any one who has had feeding problems.
I would still look closely at the .308ME case before I settled on the Improved case. There is a lot of potential there.

The internet probably keeps a gunwriter a bit nervous. Nothing posted ever goes away. There is some load data for the .30-30AI running around that I probably should not have posted. At the time we were looking for the margin of safety. We loaded above our personal stop points to see what high pressure looked like. You dent see much. There is a thread somewhere about establishing maximum loads and about reducing our personal maximums. When we started our velocity goals were 3,000fps with the 100- and 110-grain bullets. 2,700fps with the 125- and 130-grain bullet. 2,500fps with the 150-grain and 2,300fps with the 170-grain bullets. The thoughtful handloader is able to exceed the velocities with many of the medium burning powders.
Here is a link to an old thread on hand reaming chambers.
https://www.shootersforum.com/gunsmithing/8472-hand-reaming-chambers.html

stay with the original 30-30 chamber the improve isn't worth the time and expense for the gain you will get. My trapper kills just as well as my regular 94.

William, thanks for the information. If you are interested in renting out the reamer, let me know..

Why not just punch it out with a hand reamer, it headspaces on the rim. I turned two .22 Hornets to K-Hornets and they shoot great. I was careful, fired cases from one fit in the other.

This is a bigger round, more steel to remove, but why make it harder than it needs to be. Once the cases are fireformed, who cares if there was a crush fit or not. I understand headspace issue with rimless rounds, but rimless round this is not.

Just asking.

DF

There is a thread on difficulties with photobucket. I am able to upload a picture but unable to capture a link to share. Trying imagur to see if I like it.
The .30-30AI moves the shoulder well forward. This is a quick drawing of the three cartridge cases. For some reason I dont have the Improved case to the same scale but it gives a representation. The Marlin Express cartridge is a bit easier to work with.


http://imgur.com/bnRqCQ0

I thought I would try photobucket again.

I may actually not even use either of the 94's, and may end up using a 1969 Marlin 336. I picked up one today for $135, and it may make a better candidate (much easier to scope).

Well, the price was right!
If you are going with the Improved cartridge have the rifle set up as a standard .30-30 first. You are able to establish a baseline with the .30-30 cartridge and will be able to more accurately track your increased performance. It will help you to establish realistic velocity goals.