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I know how to settle this once and for all. I need a volunteer to provoke a black mamba into striking. I understand this will not be difficult. After the mamba strikes we will shock the piss out of the victim, and then monitor his vital signs for recovery. Should he recover, then I will provisionally endorse the shock treatment. Should he expire, then we have evidence that this is an old wives tale. Anyone know where to find Maser. wink


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hatari.......as i have stated before one of the "what ifs" in the whole equation is mambas are capable of giving a dry bite and given how fast the venom works i wouldnt sit around waiting for symptoms to appear before applying the electricity......so inorder for it to be a valid test i suggest you get the mamba good and pissed off and let it bite Maser a couple times before shocking the hell out of him.....in the interest of science ofcourse grin


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In this scenario, which is the victim? Will the mamba need to be shocked to save him?


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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chit, didnt think of that......might classify as animal abuse......referring to the snake ofcourse......


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hey hatari, good idea. so this is your suggestion, not to bad. seeing as it is your suggestion then go a head and get yourself bitten by a mamba, plenty of cattle prods in the vicinity of mambas. go a head the locals await!


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Originally Posted by hatari
I know how to settle this once and for all. I need a volunteer to provoke a black mamba into striking. I understand this will not be difficult. After the mamba strikes we will shock the piss out of the victim, and then monitor his vital signs for recovery. Should he recover, then I will provisionally endorse the shock treatment. Should he expire, then we have evidence that this is an old wives tale. Anyone know where to find Maser. wink


In the event of a recovery, should you not let the snake bite again, this time do not administer electricity, and then see what happens. grin

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I've seen Mambas every time I have been to Africa. They never bother us since we have seen them first and act appropriately, meaning leaving the animal alone and not mess with it.
jc

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Originally Posted by LT_DAN
hey hatari, good idea. so this is your suggestion, not to bad. seeing as it is your suggestion then go a head and get yourself bitten by a mamba, plenty of cattle prods in the vicinity of mambas. go a head the locals await!


I will need to observe to ensure the scientific method is observed. You are welcome to participate if Maser is unavailable. wink


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Hello all, I have been reading this thread and have found it highly entertaining. I know that it is an old thread... seven years old, but I do have some of the answers that you were asking about.

Between 2007 and 2011 a team of Italian researchers published a series of papers in highly respected publications concerning their research on the effects of direct current (DC) on snake venom. They found that the Metalloproteinaise enzymes in the venom were torn apart at the metallic bonds due to the action of the direct current. These bonds seem to be destroyed before protein of normal tissue are negatively effected by the electricity.

The research papers are:

Inactivation of Phospholipase A2 and Metalloproteinase from Crotalus atrox Venom by Direct Current--J BIOCHEM MOLECULAR TOXICOLOGY Volume 21, Number 1, 2007

Structural Modification of Proteins by Direct Electric Current from Low Voltage - J BIOCHEM MOLECULAR TOXICOLOGY Volume 23, Number 5, 2009

Inhibition of Hemorragic Snake Venom Components: Old and New Approaches --Toxins 2010, 2, 417-427; doi:10.3390/toxins2040417

Accelerated removal of deamidated proteins and endogenous electric fields: possible implications --Gen. Physiol. Biophys. (2010), 29, 302–308

Inactivation of Crotalus atrox Venom Hemorrhagic Activity by Direct Current Exposure Using Hens’ Egg Assay--J BIOCHEM MOLECULAR TOXICOLOGY Volume 25, Number 6, 2011



For those of you who are scientifically minded, I suggest that you access the papers, or at least read the abstracts available on the web. They are interesting reading.

These researchers were able to prove very precisely and credibly that it does work. So the question is why did some of the other "Studies" not show positive results? Several of the studies used mice, rats and other small animals which are natural prey for snakes and it was shown to be impossible to get a localised action of the venom in these test subjects. Once the venom was injected, the animals began to be digested and die. It is interesting to note that Ron Guderian did some work at his alma mater around the same time as the other studies, but he shocked the venom first and then injected it into the mice. The mice all survived, showing that the venom had been deactivated.

One other issue was that some of the studies used high powered stun guns, some of which were tasers. Some of the higher powered stun guns produce both DC and AC, which does not have the same action on the venom as DC. Also it seems that higher powered stun guns (above 80Kv) don't work at neutralizing the venom like the lower voltage devices. We are not sure yet why this is, and more research could be done to investigate this. The Italian studies used 12 volts DC with success. The high voltage just assists in penetrating deep into the tissues to tear apart the venom.

There is a vet in Colorado who heard from a local farmer that using a cattle prod was successful against rattler bites on their dogs and cows. He started to use a TASER and a high powered stun gun, but found that he didn't have success. The customer suggested that he use a "Hot Shot" cattle prod instead, and immediately he started seeing the same results on his animals.

I have been talking with people who have used this treatment for years and collecting accounts when I could. The things that I and others have found to work are, low powered stun guns below 75Kv, cattle prods, electric fences, ignition systems from small gasoline engines, some car ignition systems (can be dangerous voltages), TENS units and surprisingly even tractor and car batteries with some people. Things that don't work are high powered stun guns, TASERS etc.

A friend of mine, Ron Guderian, who was one of the missionary doctors who pioneered this treatment started up a government endorsed treatment program in the hospital Vosandes in Quito Equador in 1982 where close to 600 were treated in a 10 year period (none were dry bites, all had pain and swelling). This treatment program showed that mortality went down to zero with people treated with electric shock, and morbidity was almost eliminated. They did comparisons with those who refused any treatment and those who only received antivenin. It was clear that the shocking of the bites had a drastic effect on the recovery time and the final outcome of the patient. The program is still continuing.

This treatment is now supported in Italy with medical claims by manufacturers of devices.

It has been found by doctors since the 80s that this method works for stings of wasps and bees, it stops the necrosis of brown recluse spiders and other necrotic spiders (TENS units work really well for this) and scorpion stings. There have been anecdotal evidence of it working on many other things even on jelly fish stings, infected dog bites, and some neurotoxins from plants. There is lots of room for further research and testing in this area and there is still lots that we don't know, but we do know enough to say that when you get bitten by a snake or spider, giving it a good shock with a cattle prod can help greatly and won't do any damage.

It is important that if you use a small engine ignition system, that you use a ground contact so that the shock can travel deep into the tissue and actually flow not just give a light zap, otherwise the shock will not be as effective.

Hope that helps to answer your questions and perhaps even saves a life one day.

Cheers from OZ,
Tim.



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welcome to this campfire, sir

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Welcome, Tim.




I got a chcukle out of my original responses to the thread. I had a better sense of humor 7 years ago. smile

Last edited by hatari; 03/14/17.

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Interesting. I did not know of testing that was very successful. When this idea of shocking the bite came out, I knew a couple of Docs that said , if you can catch me ,maybe you can shock me. I will keep a cattle prod in my truck. Might be handy for several situations. Thanks for posting.

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Thanks for the greetings guys! One other thing worthy of mention is that it works best the quicker you treat the bite. Over 3 hours from the time of the bite you will have too much damage and the venom has spread too much to make the treatment really effective. Usually 6 to 8 one second shocks are sufficient at the bite site to neutralise the venom. There is lots of other info at venomshock.wikidot.com it also gives sources of modified stun guns etc.


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Welcome and thanks for some really cool information.

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Not a black Mamba but I had to remove him from a ground blind before daylight while photographing some deer in south Texas.
[Linked Image]


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Most snake encounters have the element of exaggeration added to them to some lesser or greater degree.

I remember some people on an African hunt forum beating up a report of an aggressive black mamba attack.
Turns out the snake was encountered and persistently pursued all the way to a hiding hole, where they began
to touch/physically interfere with the creature..eventually BM gave the irritant a serious dose of what they asked for. RIP.


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Originally Posted by Elkhunter49
Not a black Mamba but I had to remove him from a ground blind before daylight while photographing some deer in south Texas.
[Linked Image]


I don't see the bullet hole in that snake. grin


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Originally Posted by Timbermaster
Originally Posted by Elkhunter49
Not a black Mamba but I had to remove him from a ground blind before daylight while photographing some deer in south Texas.
[Linked Image]


I don't see the bullet hole in that snake. grin


You sir are correct. I had a camera and a sidearm with me but I did not want to scare the deer away. I ran him out of the blind and he crawled into a rat/rabbit hole about 20 feet from the blind so after I got my photos for the morning I went back to camp and got a shovel and dug him out. Let's just say that was his last sunrise!


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It was our first day in the bush, Namibia,June,2007. We were hunting gems buck on the first day of a14 day hunt. Dirk Rohrmann, thePH was driving his old cut down Land Rover. My wife Carol was riding shotgun and Manual,the tracker and I were in the high seats. We had stalked and looked over many gems buck, but nothing I wanted to take. Dirk suggested we move to another area also known for big Bulls.it was chilly early in that,but when the sun comes up the temperature becomes very pleasant. As we went down the 2trackLwas struck as how similar Namibia is to South Texas. All of a sudden there is a whap on the driver's side door and Dirk yells out the "f" word. I am looking around to see what happened and all I see is the grass move. I asked Dirk what happened and he told me a black mamba was sunning itself by the2 track and we had run over it's tail. It reared up and struck at the Rover and hit the door denting it about 6 inches from Dirk's arm. After a few minutes to calm down and realize how lucky we were, the hunt went on. That is the dangerous snake adventure I have ever had and I hope it is the last. Porsche73


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Hunting buddy had a run in with a couple and he said it really gets you thinking when the PH and trackers get seriously freaked out!

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