Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Trying to Legislate Antler Restrictions into NY

I'll be pissed if this goes through!


http://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/in...would_limit_ny_deer_hunting_options.html

By David Figura | dfiguranewyorkupstate.com
Follow on Twitter
on March 16, 2017 at 1:24 PM, updated March 16, 2017 at 2:14 PM
A new proposed law championed by an Upstate New York state senator would radically change deer hunting regulations for bucks in many parts of the state.

The bill, S4739A, was introduced by Republican Sen. Thomas O'Mara, whose 5th Senate district covers five counties across the Southern Tier and Finger Lakes regions. O'Mara is chairman of the Senate's Environmental Conservation Committee and his bill would impact the bowhunting, firearms and muzzleloading seasons.

The legislation proposes a ban on the taking of "immature bucks," limiting hunters to "antlered deer with a least one antler with at least three points in wildlife management units 3F, 3M, 3N, 3R, 4B, 4C, 4F, 4H, 4J, 4K, 4L, 4U, 4Z, 5R, 5T, 7M, 7P, 6A, 6G, 6H, 6C, 6K and,

"taking of antlered deer with at least one antler with at least four points in wildlife management units 7R, 7S, 8N, 8P, 8R, 8T, 8W, 8X, 8Y, 9G, 9H, 9J, 9M, 9N, 9P, 9R, 9T, 9W, 9X, 9Y, 7A, 7F, 7J, 6P, 6S, 6R and 4A. (See a map of all the state's Wildlife Management Areas on the DEC website).

Each point must be "at least one inch long measured from the main antler beam," the bill states.

An exemption noted in the bill would be hunters "under the age of 17," who may take "any deer with (an) antler or antlers measuring three inches or more in length.":

The rationale?

The purpose of this bill is "to expand the Yearling Buck Protection Program, currently underway in parts of Sullivan, Ulster and Orange counties, to additional Wildlife Management Units across the state."

The bill also states: "New York has the highest yearling buck harvest rate in the nation (even when averaged with the existing Yearling Buck Protection areas) and as a result the second lowest 3.5 year old harvest in the nation. This results in a majority of hunters being dissatisfied with their buck hunting experience. The DEC 2006 survey found that 40.3 to 56 percent of hunters were dissatisfied with their buck hunting experience and a decade later only 41 percent of hunters were moderately or very satisfied with opportunities to take an adult buck."

Such regulations are normally under the jurisdiction of the state Department of Environmental Conservation. Bills like those, though, amount to an end run around the DEC. The Yearling Buck Protection Program in the Catskills was put into effect due to a special bill proposed by state lawmakers from that area, not the DEC.

Antler restrictions are controversial on the state's deer hunting scene. This past fall the DEC in its 2016-2017 asked hunters to voluntarily pass on taking young bucks. The hunting guide cover featured a picture of a deer with the question: "Want Older Bucks in NY? It's Your Choice."

"For NY bucks to grow bigger bodies and larger antlers, they simply need to age," DEC said. "New York hunters can increase the likelihood of harvesting a 2.5-year-old or older bucks simply by choosing to pass up shots at young bucks."

The rationale is that older buck are more challenging to hunt, yield more meat and bigger racks - and "create more rubs and scrapes and vocalize more - all things that enhance the deer hunting experience," according to the DEC.

The issue of antler restrictions is a long-standing and extremely ontroversial issue among the state's hunters. Many hunters value and are outspoken on having the freedom to shoot whatever size buck they choose - particularly hunters who only get out once or just a couple of times during the season.

Meanwhile, the DEC worked with Cornell University to evaluate "regional variation in hunter values and the impacts on harvest, population management and hunter satisfaction."

"The study indicated that regulatory changes are not appropriate or most compatible with hunter values at this time," DEC said in a news release. As a result, the DEC decided to go with leaving the choice up to hunters in the rest of the state.

John Rybinski, president of the CNY Chapter of the New York State Quality Deer Management Association, said, "I highly support this bill as does the majority of deer hunters as proven by eight Cornell surveys. The last, April 2015, showed 69 percent support yearling buck protection and 73 percent are willing to accept some limitations on buck hunting in order to protect more yearling bucks. The current DEC voluntary program is proven not to work. This needs to be law."

Chuck Parker, president of the New York State Conservation Council, said the council since 2009 has considered a total of 26 different resolutions advocating antler restrictions - and that each one was defeated by a two-thirds majority of the group's state-wide membership.

"Hunters want the right to choose. Any mandatory restriction such as this should be done by DEC regulation, not legislation. They (the DEC) have the expert wildlife biologists."

Cold snap, winter storm gives false hope to Upstate NY ice fishermen
Cold snap, winter storm gives false hope to Upstate NY ice fishermen
"I'm telling everyo

I predict a lot of "illegally shot deer" will be left in the woods to rot

"The legislation proposes a ban on the taking of "immature bucks," limiting hunters to "antlered deer with a least one antler with at least three points bla bla bla... "
In the name of Buck Maturity (bigger antlers)?... riiiigght....

That restriction will have more to do with "high grading" and specifically targeting immature bucks that may exhibit the most genetic potential for antler development before they get to pass those genes along imo.



"hunters can increase the likelihood of harvesting a 2.5-year-old or older bucks simply by choosing to pass up shots at young bucks."

^^^^ It ain't rocket science.
Education is the Key, not more regulations IMO. Many of the same folks that are always bitching about gov. over reach are the very ones that want added hunting restrictions on ~others~.

I found out something along time ago. The folks that can't kill a mature deer now aren't gonna be any better at it with more restrictions added.

This very approach (3 point rule) was tried in Mississippi several years ago and the results were exactly as you describe. 11/2 y/o bucks with small six point racks are the ones you want to protect because they have the genetics you want to be passed on but they ended up being the ones that got hammered by hunters. Most taxidermists noticed the downward trend of antler size pretty quickly.

Fortunately the state's game biologists realized what was happening and got the regs changed. We have since gone to using inside spread and/or main beam length to define a legal buck with exceptions for youth hunters. The state also recognized that different areas of the state due to presence or lack of agricultural crops, have different antler size potential and the state is divided into three zones. There are pictures in the state's game brochure giving ways to estimate beam length and/or spread using nose length and ear spread. We don't have "check stations" or deer tags per se so it's pretty much self-policed but so far the system seems to be working well.

Lay off the spikes and forks for a year or two. Shoot a doe. It ain't rocket surgery.

Don't get me wrong, I've shot plenty of spikes and forks, but now days I'd rather have a fawn for meat.

We have 12 Areas that have the 3 pt. per side rule, I dont like it, we see alot of spikes and 4 pts. so you would think that the next season we would see alot of 6-8 pt. bucks, dont know where they are going but we are not seeing them! I bowhunt alot, thats the only way I have gotten a buck the last 3 seasons this will be year 5 of a 5 years study! yes there are some bigger bucks but not many! also I have a very big 4pt. has to be 4-5 years old now, no brow tines, guess what hes doing alot of the breeding in my hunting area, had 4 other bucks without brow tines on the same trail cam! the COs are getting alot of calls finding small bucks being shot & left in the woods! as they didnt have the needed points.4 years ago, with the group I rifle hunt with we went 11 bucks out of 12 hunters and some spikes were passed. last season one 6pt. out of 14 hunters, go Fig!

A high percentage of the year and a half old bucks in the area that I hunt have 3 points on one side .this proposed law would do very little to protect the yearling bucks!More arm chair deer management!

Essentially the same rule went into effect in Pa with the exception of it being implemented by GC decree. We heard the same complaints, biological theories and predictions of Deer shot by mistake littering the wood. Didn't happen.

Took awhile, but now we are killing much larger antlered Bucks on average. You want nice Bucks then they need time to grow. You don't, fight it and shoot 1.5 YO.

Ours went as a spread measurement and is by FAR the best thing that ever happened to our deer herd.

Many more deer today than when it was implemented. Larger/older bucks doing the breeding. Protecting the promising ones while they age.

Heavier body weights, healthier deer.

There is really about no negative, otehr than an older deer that isn't wide enough, IE trash... but pretty much you won't get in trouble if you shoot one like that, as long as you aren't shooting a 2.5 year old 8 point. Or 3.5 year old 8 point.

You might be surprised at the results. Then again because it worked here doesn't mean it will there.

RE dead young deer, we have very little of that....

I for one don't want to really protect a 6 point thats 1.5 years old when I have 8 and 10 points that are 1.5 years old... but then again thats just me.

More likely a lot of untagged deer leaving the woods. No deer check stations, telephone call in reporting.

With very few exceptions it's one antlered deer per year during regular hunting season in NY, no does. One deer of either sex during bow and muzzle loader season.

I thought NY had some check stations on the Thruway?

I've been around and around ,many a time with hunters that are in favor of this in my area. 99% of them are hunters who want to shoot a wallhanger every time they pull the trigger. Those bucks do exist here in my area-- Few and far apart. It takes a lot of WORK to fill your tag every year with one. --- one has to learn that hunting is more than what you hang on the wall.

An entire generation of outdoor hunting shows has raised a new breed of hunter. I cannot even wrap my head around the arguments that have been the product of MANDATORY APR's. There is nothing life sustaining about a set of antlers on the wall.......

This

Maybe they do for the southern tier. I hunt in the northern zone, haven't seen a deer check station since the 70s.

....in Pa what many had to learn was hunting was more than going out, killing something small quickly so they could come back and brag, "I got mine."

Addition: What many here have yet to learn is the killing is the easy part and the hunting has become the skill. Sadly most are not up to it and quit after the first Monday. They'll be back on Saturday to take a Doe. Providing the weather is ok.

I hunt Delaware County in New York and Bedford County in Pa, both have 3 point antler restrictions. I can tell you by experience that trying to count 3 points on a small rack buck running or fast walking thru brush isn't easy even looking thru a scope! I saw 5 bucks on opening day in Pa. and the only legal deer I saw I missed fast walking thru brush after it took me forever to see the third point! I had him in the wide open but didn't see the third point until it was almost too late. The other 4 bucks I saw were sub legal scrubbers and not big deer. I find it hard to believe people have 1.5 year old 10 pointers. NYS has mandatory check stations on Rt. 17 every year!

This buck has haunted us at camp for about 3 years now--- I don't know any hunter from my area in NY that wouldn't want to get a shot at him. So far he has outsmarted all the old veteran deer hunters in my camp ,which really does not surprise any of us. --- Spending a weekend in the woods every year and shooting one like this every year would get old fast. ( PS. The Camera Date is wrong-- photo was in Aug 2015 )--- The people pushing Antler restrictions say that it produces Quality Deer--- What is a quality deer ?--- my answer-- A healthy deer