Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Trying to Legislate Antler Restrictions into NY

NY and Pa both have large plots of public land that could be managed. We have GL that are over 10,000 acres. Most are easily over 1000 and more than a few in the 5000 plus category. And the total is over 1.5million.

About all they can do is timber cut, which is what pretty much pays the bills and in and of itself a good habitat enhancement tool. There are areas back in that most never set foot on, in that they don't allow motorized access. You can bike into some areas, but for the most part it is walk in and out. The still strong, that can get back in and out kill some impressive Bucks. There isn't and an overabundance of Deer, but the Buck to Doe ratio, along with limited pressure, may be the best in the State for allowing Deer having the opportunity to mature.

Most of that mountain country isn't conducive to growing food plots and such. Even if you could get the equipment back in there.

They put in antler restrictions in Arkansas where I hunt 10 or 15 years ago. I was against it. I was in the habit of shooting the first legal deer that I saw. It has made deer hunting safer when you have to count points and evaluate every deer before you shoot it. Our game department after a few years started allowing the taking of more does.
Our herd has grown where I hunt and is more balanced now.
I expect to choose which 8 point or better bucks I want to shoot now and always pass on several. It hasn't been a bad thing here.

We never would have ended up with 1.5 year old 10 points if it were not for management restrictions...

I often compare it to livestock.... you would not just shoot all your promising stock... you'd let genetics work and try to end up with better, most would anyway.

Like I"ve said, different areas may need different goals, but for us, management did all the good in the world and very very little negative associated with it.

Why is it important to have 1.5 year old with 10 points ?
But don't hold this against me.
Picking and choosing which 8 pointer to shoot or hold off for a 12 pointer sounds like today's standard that every one participating will get a trophy. To each his own on the way one hunts, But when age old laws are changed to satisfy a few ,it puts a thorn in my side.
Like I told my neighbor years ago that wanted all the land owners in his area to become members of HIS QDM area and he will set the rules on who is to hunt and what size bucks can be shot.------ Save your money buy up the 3000 acres ,start your own QDM with your rules and hunt it. Don't push your rules on me. A spike horn can be a trophy. Web

Some thoughts:

Age old laws were changed decades ago when they started issuing Doe tags in Pa. And those who thought it was a sin to shoot mother Doe screamed. When it came to herd management it was the right thing to do.

Again this is herd management and it seems more and more those who are against are the few. Those for, the majority.

How does AR benefit deer management ? By allowing Doe to be harvested in overpopulated areas increases food supply for others and decreases the ability for overpopulation--- Deer heard management----- That's doe not bucks---
If anything only shoot the inferior smaller Spike and 3 pointers for about 6 years-- Let the big boys do the breeding.
Then you will have some smashers. Buck -- Doe Ratio at my camp seem to be for years now about 1-6 by our observation. Seems to be OK but that's my opinion. Web

DEC's biologists say our deer herd is perfectly healthy and that there is NO NEED for antler restrictions to imrove the health of the herd. The ONLY reason for it is to make the trophy hunters happy. Period.

Web,

That is probably another way to the same end, but some of those smaller ones would be the breeders down the road.

Thing is, times change and you and I are fossils when it comes to the age categories of those who buy hunting licenses and the last couple generations of current hunters are the ones who are going to make the rules. This is one of many possible Deer management methods and it happens to be the one most today want.

I'm not all for AR's for Deer hunting in Pa. Why? because the young bucks I see at the range using them, for the most part, are not riflemen and I get the feeling they are going to treat Deer hunting like a video game. Then, the guy shows up with one who is safe and very proficient. Who am I to say he shouldn't be allowed to use it.

So, I best sit back watch the change and adapt. Because like it or not it is here.

battue--- never ever thought of it that way, but like good old Bob told me " The Times they are a changing " Looking deeper into what you said reminds me of my father asking me why I needed a scope mounted on the custom M98 -8mm he gave me. I took off the Williams peep he used. New Generation Dad. It's like growing up in the 50's --best of times never again.
You may be right--- Set back and hope my grandchildren can enjoy the outdoors like I did. I own 2 camps with 270 acres of private hunting that borders 3 thousand acres of public hunting--Grandchildren and friends hunting for life. Keep your powder dry. Web

Web,

I'd bet most of those young bucks wish they had the Deer hunting you have made for yourself and the kids. 👍

If you knew about management that you don't care about, a spike is a trophy, I kill every last one I see mostly. They are inferior.

I"m not doing what most assume though, I"ll harvest a large buck, but I'm using the rules to make the herd bigger, larger, healthier.

If you saw what it did down here, you would understand.

You can kill a bigger, healthier, more meaty deer every year. Even if you want only a spike or the first legal 13 inch wide deer you see. And along the way we have more does, more fawns and more and healthier bucks because its allowing nature to do what its supposed to, instead of letting all the pre teens breed each other and inter family....

Me, I've shot 2 mature bucks sicne the rules changed in 2004. The first buck I ever shot here, prior to that is to date a small one by comparison and young. But that was prior to the rules and when we rarely saw a deer. Now its rare not to see a deer when hunting or just around the house. Its actually rare not to see a legal buck every day I'm around and looking.

I fail to see how results like this would put a thorn in your side.

First few years I heard a bit of bitching...I haven't heard a single negative thing lately. From anyone.

Heck management has allowed us to have enough does where I could get a doe permit too if I wanted...

Of course I"m ahead of the loop since I own my own land already...

But they did it on public land that we hunt off and on too... nothing but positives there too.

BTW I failed to asnwer... its not important to have a yearling 10 point, its impressive.

BTW we still shoot with irons at times... if that makes you feel any better. LOL

It's a little different here. We're at or above carrying capacity in most areas now. We don't need more deer. We aren't allowed to feed and the deer need enough natural browse to make it through a hard, snowy winter without destroying the forest/habitat.

Rost495---- To gather info. and to think about what you have said to help me understand it better. Do you in your hunting area sit and watch feeders ? Bating the bucks you shoot. And about how many deer will you see in an average day of hunting ?
Buck and Doe ? Thanks Web

Web

I rarely sit a stand at home. I do have protein feeders out and I do have spin feeders. I usually ease around as I maintain a number of smaller food plots mostly year around as I can manage and if we get enough rain.

I did shoot 2 bow bucks from a feeder, it was the way to get close enough as I refuse to shoot past 15 yards with a bow period.

The rest are often on trails between plots or just crossing the pasture or on a food plot.

I"ve even shot one basically off the porch, a 3.5 year old 16 inch long spike that took me 3 years to finally kill... he actually finally had a short brow tine on that third year.

Usually I"ll see more bucks than does. I have no clue why. Boggles my mind actually but I'm not complaining. I"m not picky either, I"d be happy to shoot a handful of does every year to eat and never shoot a buck. But not at home, the numbers are skewed. I suspect I'll see around 5-6 bucks sometimes up to 10, on a morning or evening hunt. I see does, generally no more than 1-3 probably every other or every 3rd hunt or so.


Cameras show an average of 10-15 bucks in a 24 hour period on some of the plots/feeders/trails. And usually up to 4 does in that same period. Does are just tending to pop up more to the middle of the day. And since the cameras are at feeders, yes you could kill them there more or less. Though my nephew has tried to bowhunt them and has not had much luck. Mostly cause he doesn't listen to when he should and how he should and doesn't hunt em hard enough. But face it, 100 acres isn't much, and there isn't much I can't reach if I can see it. Almost tough to see past 400 or 500 yards and mostly past 300... all of those are easy shots for a 308 feeder or not.

Realize though too, I don't make much time to hunt at home, maybe an hour in the morning and about an hour in the evening, maybe 2 if its a weekend and my pager doesnt' go off.

Hopefully thats given you info.

I do totally realize every area can be different, but as I've tried to note, lots of folks were against our 13 inch spread rule to start with. Fear of this and that. Of course now hardly any are against it. But we still don't limit the number of bucks per acre of land, and in one fell swoop years of work could go down the tubes quickly.

And you'll have to realize I"m biased. I was born in 65. We bought the place in 63 IIRC, and I can recall seeing a deer now and then in the late 70s. Then it moved to maybe see a deer once or twice a year in the 80s. And finally to where now its weird if you don't see a deer or handful on any given day.

Jeff

You learn how to identify legal racks and non legal racks. Yeah, you might miss an opportunity because you didn't see that third point,but that's the breaks. This works. Don't whine about it if you haven't tried it.

How so?

I think Battue would agree with me on this one-back before QDM, it wasn't at all uncommon to see the 35 deer the first morning. But you might look at 35 deer and maybe find on year and a half old spike out of all those sightings. Any deer much over 120 lbs. was considered a good sized deer. The herd was way too unbalanced. There were way too many does, and not enough bucks reaching maturity to even things out. The herd is much more balanced now, and the deer don't over-graze the available browse like they used to.

This wasn't done for the trophy hunters. It was done to improve the overall health of the deer herd.

I agree with this. It's hard to pass up that fork. But it's for the betterment of the herd. Not for the "king".