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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Anything with an afterburner is loud. When you're converting fuel to noise at a rate of gallons per second, it creates a fuss.

Nothing like rockets, though. They burn fuel at a rate of tons per second. Really.


Hard to see from the pics if the burners are selected. In the video (2nd) they clearly are not. When they go to burner, the "feathers" in the aft end spread open like your pupil does. BTW, the loudest of the all was Pug's jet, the Prowler. Mine just sounded like a vacuum cleaner frown


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Originally Posted by Snake River Marksman
Jorge, I seem to remember the tail feathers on the tomcat closing down when they went to full burner?

High speed flybys were always a treat. Live ordinance airshows make the precision flying shows of the Blue Angels etc. somewhat less impressive. A 2000lb bomb at 2 miles toss delivered by an A-6 leaves a lasting impression.


Watch the video. The "As" with the "Jimmy Carter" motors had to use burner on the CAT as you can see on the video opening up. The A+s and Ds with the good engines needed no burner on the CAT, just MRT and then the cans/feathers did close up



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I think what I was remembering was closing down for full military and then opening as the burner increased.


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The AT/AQ Shop was right under the #4 JBD on the USS America. FA 18's on the Cat are the worse. 14's are much deeper in tone and sound great. 18's are higher pitched and just sucked.

You can't compare Air Force jets to NavAir. AF are built to a much lighter standard due to such an easier life. Cat Shots, Arrests, and the environment just require a tougher bird.

FOD Walkdown was always improved for the MATWING side of Oceana when one of Tom Cats were practicing their Air Show routines.


Originally Posted By: slumlord

people that text all day get on my nerves

just knowing that people are out there with that ability,....just makes me wanna punch myself in the balls
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Was down in Vegas two weekends ago. Driving down I-15 past Nellis just at 4:30-5pm. Was hard to keep my eyes on the road as F-15 and F-16s were flying the pattern and making the break. I had to explain the procedure to my wife. She didn't understand why they flew such close formation. I told her "You have to look good around the base." "Out over the range they can spread out and fly loose but around town....you gots to look good"


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The damn F-35 (sorry to even mention it, jorge) is a loud sumbeach, too. I'm just exactly nine miles from Hill AFB, as the crows and sound waves fly. As I type this, I can hear F-35s taking off and turning out over the desert. There's a distinct difference between them and our good old F-16s. It used to take at least a two-ship formation takeoff to rattle my windows like just one F-35 does. I genuinely pity the folks who live closer to the base.


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Rocky, we live 2 miles from the runway at MCAS Yuma, they have the F-35's , our house is directly under the downwind leg when they are practicing, they are plenty loud, but then the Harriers are about the same. Yes, they rattle the windows. No, I don't mind, I figure it is the sound of me not having to take my wife downtown and get her fitted for a burka . smile


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The "turkey feathers" are there to contol back pressure in the tailpipe/combustion chamber.

In the Phantom the turkey feathers were open at idle and closed (puckered) at somewhere around 75% rpm IIRC (it's been 30 years) on run-up and then opened when you went to burner.

In the mid-eighties when I flew the F-14A with the Pratt and WhitneyTF-30 (we called 'em Pratt and $h_tney's) the turkey feathers were open at idle, then closed at a mid range rpm on run-up, then opened again in burner. As a recognition feature, when closed, the turkey feathers of the TF-30 in the F-14A had a double radius...think like a Weatherby cartridge.

One big reason that the Tomcat went away when it did was that the Tomcat community viewed itself totally in the air to air fighter mode vs the bomber mode.There was a lot of serious foot dragging in the development of the Bombcat along other political considerations mentioned by Jorgei. As we found out later, the Bombcat had great legs and a great bombing system but it was too little too late.

As Rocky mentioned above the afterburner fuel flow in both was on the order of 1400-1500 pounds per minute IIRC. In the Phantom we normally launched with about 18,500 lbs and in the Tomcat and two tanks it was 20,000 lbs. In burner it went away fast.

While training in the Tomcat it was constantly pounded into us not to get too frisky in moving the throttles into and out of burner at high speeds or high angle of attack maneuvering to avoid compressor stalls. Maybe because of that emphasis, in 850 hours in the Tomcat I only had one brief one that cleared immediately when I pulled the throttle back.

I can tell you that on maintenance check flights after an engine replacement I was never as comfortable doing the high speed Mach run or shut downs/relights in the Tomcat as I was in the Phantom.

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What a great thread


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Yes it is. Aviation has always fascinated me, and that goes double for Naval aviation.


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Originally Posted by navlav8r
One big reason that the Tomcat went away when it did was that the Tomcat community viewed itself totally in the air to air fighter mode vs the bomber mode.There was a lot of serious foot dragging in the development of the Bombcat along other political considerations mentioned by Jorgei. As we found out later, the Bombcat had great legs and a great bombing system but it was too little too late.


When I was in CVW-8 at Airwing Fallon VF-84 tried dropping some inert Mk-82s off their F-14A's with the base software into a target in Bravo 16. They bracketed highway 50 about 7 miles off range with a pair. eek Hmm, VF-41 tried it. Same result. Clearly the fighter software needed some updates to get the bombs on target.

Those were desperate times as we prepared for Desert Shield knowing that it was highly likely we were going to war. There were very few of us read into the actual plans and I only was as a LT because my collateral duty was to build the mission profiles in the software libraries to program the ALQ-99 Jamming system. My fellow JO's would have been a little more apprehensive had they known the assessment was that we would lose 50% of the Prowlers the first night but no one was going to a back out we were young and immortal.

Always felt good to see a Tomcat as an escort. Here's a picture from that cruise.

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Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
What a great thread


+10


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Great thread!

My brother in law is a USAF Colonel (Ret).

He's flown some of the fast stuff (Bosnia, etc) but the stories I most enjoy hearing are of him flying the A-10 in the gulf wars.

It's like the difference listening to a guy talk about how he took his Lamborghini to 200 on the autobahn one time, versus the next guy who put 400k miles on his trusty, rusty Tacoma that always got him home and saved his ass. There is just a fondness in his voice for the warthog that is palpable.

By the way, thanks to the military members in this thread. Your service is much appreciated!

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
[quote=RockyRaab] BTW, the loudest of the all was Pug's jet, the Prowler. frown


I was in Saudi, PSAB as part of OSW in '02. A package would go out, and the Prowlers would circle the field, climbing. Loudest SOB's in the air, thats for sure.


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Originally Posted by Hawk_Driver
Originally Posted by jorgeI
[quote=RockyRaab] BTW, the loudest of the all was Pug's jet, the Prowler. frown


I was in Saudi, PSAB as part of OSW in '02. A package would go out, and the Prowlers would circle the field, climbing. Loudest SOB's in the air, thats for sure.


[video:youtube]5jxcSY1AwrM[/video]


I always loved the whistling sing-song of a Prowler on final!

[video:youtube]NMVna9SvLVE[/video]


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Anyone who has worked the flight deck will feel the hairs stand up on their neck with that Intruder Intake video. I've seen it many times and it still terrible. That might have happened when I was in (85-91) but not VA-85 thankfully.

A Hoover (S-3) got a guy for sure when I was in. Eisenhower or Forrestal I believe.

Hell, it's easy enough to get your legs swept out from under you when they were moving a Huffer around the launch.


Originally Posted By: slumlord

people that text all day get on my nerves

just knowing that people are out there with that ability,....just makes me wanna punch myself in the balls
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Originally Posted by 007FJ
Anyone who has worked the flight deck will feel the hairs stand up on their neck with that Intruder Intake video. I've seen it many times and it still terrible. That might have happened when I was in (85-91) but not VA-85 thankfully.


Happened on Roosevelt in 91 on Cat 4. I was in Ready 1 sitting the alert and watched it happen on the LLTV. He was on the ships TV the next day, still pretty deaf. Lucky lucky guy.

You folks that worked the flight deck day and night in good weather and bad deserve a whole lot of credit. I went up there during flight ops only to get to the jet and then via the most direct path!


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We are so lucky to have so many members here who've "walked the walk." I've always been a military aviation freek, going back to WWII and before. I worked with an older fellow who was a member of the P-36 Seversky development team. Man, he had some great stories. I've had the honor of meeting everyone from a guy who flew coastal patrol in Navy dirigibles, to WWII fighter and bomber pilots, even a Stuka jockey at an airshow one time. My favorites have to be the guys who fly the jets though. You men no doubt have balls that clang.

Thanks one and all for your service.


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Originally Posted by navlav8r
The "turkey feathers" are there to contol back pressure in the tailpipe/combustion chamber.

In the Phantom the turkey feathers were open at idle and closed (puckered) at somewhere around 75% rpm IIRC (it's been 30 years) on run-up and then opened when you went to burner.

In the mid-eighties when I flew the F-14A with the Pratt and WhitneyTF-30 (we called 'em Pratt and $h_tney's) the turkey feathers were open at idle, then closed at a mid range rpm on run-up, then opened again in burner. As a recognition feature, when closed, the turkey feathers of the TF-30 in the F-14A had a double radius...think like a Weatherby cartridge.

One big reason that the Tomcat went away when it did was that the Tomcat community viewed itself totally in the air to air fighter mode vs the bomber mode.There was a lot of serious foot dragging in the development of the Bombcat along other political considerations mentioned by Jorgei. As we found out later, the Bombcat had great legs and a great bombing system but it was too little too late.

As Rocky mentioned above the afterburner fuel flow in both was on the order of 1400-1500 pounds per minute IIRC. In the Phantom we normally launched with about 18,500 lbs and in the Tomcat and two tanks it was 20,000 lbs. In burner it went away fast.

While training in the Tomcat it was constantly pounded into us not to get too frisky in moving the throttles into and out of burner at high speeds or high angle of attack maneuvering to avoid compressor stalls. Maybe because of that emphasis, in 850 hours in the Tomcat I only had one brief one that cleared immediately when I pulled the throttle back.

I can tell you that on maintenance check flights after an engine replacement I was never as comfortable doing the high speed Mach run or shut downs/relights in the Tomcat as I was in the Phantom.


Great writeup! I remember the early Tomcat guys having to "fight" the motors vice the airframe...


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Originally Posted by Pugs
Originally Posted by 007FJ
Anyone who has worked the flight deck will feel the hairs stand up on their neck with that Intruder Intake video. I've seen it many times and it still terrible. That might have happened when I was in (85-91) but not VA-85 thankfully.


Happened on Roosevelt in 91 on Cat 4. I was in Ready 1 sitting the alert and watched it happen on the LLTV. He was on the ships TV the next day, still pretty deaf. Lucky lucky guy.

You folks that worked the flight deck day and night in good weather and bad deserve a whole lot of credit. I went up there during flight ops only to get to the jet and then via the most direct path!


When I got a new baby RIO I always told them before we walked up on the flight deck to man up, "you stay right behind me, close enough that you can touch me on the shoulder until we get to the jet. After we land if you beat me unstrapping (pretty unlikely) you don't go anywhere and then stay right behind me 'til we're off the deck."

Nowadays, when I'm briefing our student naval aviators for for their CQ simulators, that if they have to shut down and swap jets I tell them once again to not go anywhere without one of the "yellow shirts" (flight deck directors) or one of the plane captains.

I saw some really, really horrendous injuries/incidents one the flight deck. Heavy machinery, some of it moving fast and pink little bodies don't mix very well.


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