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Ain't it??!! grin


"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Gnoahhh,
As much for aesthetics as anything, I have Leopold quick-release mounts.Captdavid


"It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds.

If you are a hunter, and farther than that, get closer!
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Originally Posted by RevMike
But the ol' rifle sure looks good in "full Africa" dress.


Yes she does!


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Originally Posted by CarlsenHighway



I prefer open V rear sights to ghost ring apertures, because I find that with wide ghost apertures, under pressure it is likely that the rear sight may not be used at all, and wild misses can result. I no longer trust them myself. Ghost ring sights are a good idea in theory. In my case open express sights, a wide shallow V, or a straight bar, beats them for a working sight every time, simply because of this. Peep sights are good target sights.


Very informative post. Put me in this camp as well. I read JOC and Whelen and forced myself to use aperture sights 'cause they were better. Then I finally quit rebuking my own personnel results which indicated I shot better with slight notch or express sights. I might have to try the flat express rear.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Chighway,

Correct, that is how YOU do it...



I know. I wrote it.


"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I will disagree with some of that. I have used a 6 o'clock hold all my life for both target shooting and hunting. Never have I tried to shoot "through" my front bead by mistake. I guess it depends upon what one has drilled into one's head by one's mentors when young. Luckily my mentors had the common sense to know the most precise means of employing a bead. It is doubly important when one uses a sourdough front sight (which in truth is more efficient than a bead)- how would one "shoot through" a flat topped post front sight. Someone such as me who uses both style sights on various guns would be severely handicapped by any method other than the 6 o'clock hold.

As for the OP's question re: sights on a rifle. Am I correct in assuming that said rifle would wear a scope as its primary sighting implement? If so, and the express sights would be of an auxiliary nature, I will agree that they look cool in that capacity and will also agree that the two leaf sight is most practical. But I submit that an even better system would be a Lyman receiver sight instead- longer sight radius for "better" accuracy, ease of use (attention to only two objects at once- front sight and target, versus three- rear, front, and target). When the scope is in place, remove the sight staff to get it out of the way (and carry it in a trap in either the butt plate or under the pistol grip cap), and replace it with a dummy slide so as to "keep up appearances".

If one is really anal about redundancy, one can also have a folding leaf rear sight up on the barrel- the old tried and true two leaf Lyman #6 comes to mind, with which both leaves fold flat out of the way when not in use. I use a couple as backup sights on rifles equipped with aperture rear sights and no scopes at all.

If iron sights are intended for primary use, no scope, (sorry OP, not clear on your intent) I would go straight to an aperture rear sight and be done with it. With a precision instrument such as a Lyman 48 it's a very simple and accurately repeatable trick to "spin its turrets" to compensate for different loads and/or distances to target- if such is felt to be absolutely necessary by the user. The infinite variability of said sight allows for much much greater flexibility than express sights do. There's a reason why receiver sights took the shooting world by storm a bazillion years ago.



I still use for receiver aperture sights on some rifles, I have a .257 roberts and a .30/06 I shoot with them.
But I dont like ghost rings, which is all the rage all over the bloody internet when it comes to peep sights, or certainly there is a point of diminishing returns with a wide aperture. The rim of a Williams receiver sight or a Lyman 66 with the screw in peep taken out, for example, is too thin for my use.

Perhaps it might not have been when my eyesight was in my twenties, but I wasn't shooting without a scope then.


Aperture sights took the shooting world by storm in America. They were much more of an American thing, and driven by military range target shooting, something that people like Townsend Whelen was deeply into.

But at ranges out to 200 metres it is perfectyl possible to shoot as well with express type v sights and a bead as with an aperture receiver sight. At distances greater than that this it entirely changes in favour of the peep sight.


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Originally Posted by CarlsenHighway
Captdavid,



[Linked Image]




The sight picture on the left is the most accurate for me with a bead. Sighted like this, with bullet impact hitting at the top of the bead, or just 1" above the bead in what is left of the open air of the back sight groove. I'm not blocking out the bullet impact, but the bead is buried and in a repeatable position.

Works for me with older Remington .22's and Marlin lever actions.


I'll admit that with a hold like "B" with a post sight, or "E" with a bead, I get a wandering zero due to how I am seeing the sights on a given day. Not off by much, but not as precise for my eyes/ability.
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In my view, captdavid, one fixed shallow-V notch is all you'll need. Folding leaves have a habit of folding when you don't want them to. A big concave or flat-faced front bead (white or gold) works for my failing eyes. I zero so bullets strike at the top of the bead at 100 yards, near center of the bead at 200, which is as far as I'll use open sights. Bullet weights do change point of impact, but unless bullet weights/velocities/ballistic coefficients run to the extremes, a big bead will cover such discrepancies at normal hunting ranges and give you quick aim. That bead and a fixed rear sight (once adjusted) afford precision enough -- maybe more than you expect. Good shooting!... WvZ


Originally Posted by captdavid
I have decided to use express rear sights on my rebuild, probably three leaf. I am totally ignorant in how to set-up and how to aim properly (ie, where to put the front bead in the shallow rear V)? Would you please help? Thanks captdavid

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I use Lyman 48 or similar old Redfield steel sights on several of my lever and pump rifles. I'm building a 375 Whelen Mouse(r) AI that will have a Lyman Aperture sight and post front sight. I'm also building a 35 Whelen on a 700 action - same set up as the 375. The 375 is AI so I can quickly determine that cartridges are not the 35 version.
My 416 Rigby is open V and I like that a lot also.
I think buckhorn sights are a damnable concoction, I detest them. The only reason I ever keep them (in a drawer) is if I might sell the rifle and the new owner may want the POS's.

As far as the V sight, one is enough, though my Rigby has three. I'll do as Mule Deer suggested and glue the other two down.

All my Lyman and Redfield sights are steel. I had an aluminum one on my 1885 45-70 for a while. I threw it away, replaced it with steel. They are weak and easily damaged IMHO.


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I use Lyman 48 or similar old Redfield steel sights on several of my lever and pump rifles. I'm building a 375 Whelen Mouse(r) AI that will have a Lyman Aperture sight and post front sight. I'm also building a 35 Whelen on a 700 action - same set up as the 375. The 375 is AI so I can quickly determine that cartridges are not the 35 version.
My 416 Rigby is open V and I like that a lot also.
I think buckhorn sights are a damnable concoction, I detest them. The only reason I ever keep them (in a drawer) is if I might sell the rifle and the new owner may want the POS's.

As far as the V sight, one is enough, though my Rigby has three. I'll do as Mule Deer suggested and glue the other two down.

All my Lyman and Redfield sights are steel. I had an aluminum one on my 1885 45-70 for a while. I threw it away, replaced it with steel. They are weak and easily damaged IMHO.

Some of my bolt action rifles still wear open sights (factory) and they are for back up. They have scopes as primary. If you do this be sure to have those irons sighted in.

Last edited by Bugger; 04/01/17.

I prefer classic.
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I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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