recent purchase of a browning hi wall with vxr 1.5-4 for a May 2017 black bear hunt has me scrambling . new cartridge to me .
Federal 300 gr trophy bonded bear claws at 1800 fps shoot clover leafs , I know this is a tough bullet but the load is tame ........take them apart and use the bullet in another developed load around 2200 fps ? .....develop load for 350 gr hornady to reach potential ?
Will be hunting from blind over bait , not my first bear hunt and will be waiting for that good shot on the big guy. (300# + )
I know you have experimented and the volume of information out there for the many generations of rifles is just overwhelming . Suggest a direction ?
Apologize for fat finger typing on this iPad mini.....Thanks in advance
I'm not a bear hunter but I do have a good bit of experience with the 45-70. Something as close as a baited bear and I'd say that 350 grain Bear Claw would turn its lights out quick.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
I have used various 300 or 350 grainers on bears, moose, (whales), etc out of the 45-70. One of my favorites is the 300 Speer Uni-Cor - which might be similar to the Federal load perhaps. If that load shoots well for you and gives you confidence in placement, use it. A bonded 300 will work as well as either 350 Hornady (or 350 Speer), and if you happen to run into bigger bone chunks, the bonded 300s will be even better.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
doubt the bear will notice 400 fps. I shot a black bear with a 350 hornady over a bunch of RL7 and the hole in the ground it made after going thru was about a bear deep
That 300 running at 1800 should be a nice shooting load. Early on with the 45-70 I ran 300's up to pretty quick speeds and I never noticed any difference from keeping them down around 2000 or so. 1800 is still a pretty good load and with a decent zero will get you out to distance pretty easily. Good luck, that should be a great bullet. Wished they would release them for us handloaders.
Not JB, but have shot a couple bears with the baby mortar. Plus the guys I hunted with, 5 total, 4 of us carried Marlin 1895s. The favorite load was 400 gr Speer over either H4895 or Re 7. All Brian Piercian in stature. I used a Horn 350 RN and wasn't overly impressed. Think that bullet was too tough for the 45-70. I guarantee the 400 Speer will impress them. We likely shot 12-15 bears with that bullet ranging from 100 to 400 lbs.
Although I have no experience with the smaller bullets, a bonded 300 gr is likely just as effective.
One thing to keep in mind - you run out of recoil tolerance before you run into pressure limits in a strong action rifle. A 300 moving 2000+ or a 400 moving 1900 will recoil like a mule - trust me on that. If your current load shoots well, you don't need more for a baited bear.
Basically what everyone else said: That load will work fine.
In fact I'd happily hunt black bear (or most other North American big game) with the equivalent of the original black powder loadings. Have seen a big bull bison go down within 30 yards after being shot through both lungs with a black powder load--and the bullet exited.
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I guess I expected more recoil from the 300 gr loading , and with that felt it was too tame , the rifle is a joy to shoot , accuracy is tennis ball groups offhand at 50 yards , it just points and shoots natural . My mind just told me it should kick!
The federal trophy bonded bear claw is a favorite bullet in my 35 Whelan and I expect it will perform well in the 45-70.
Will take the advice , relax and enjoy the hunt , will post after .
Klik recommends a good bullet with the Speer Unicor, and Beretz is correct with the velocity.
I've run 300 grain bullets at 2200 fps, and now run them about 1800 out of my .45-70 (if I use them, I tend to use a hardcast nowadays), and haven't really noticed anything dying any slower.
As a matter of fact, the Hornady 300 grain HPs keep their integrity much better at the slower speed. The upper threshold for them seems to be around 1900 or so fps.
Of course, distance from blind or stand to bait is a factor to be reckoned with if using a moderate load. I've killed several at 100 yards using a .45-70. At that range, I've always used a heavier bullet that holds velocity better. One of the best for handloads is the 405gr Remington as it has a decent ballistic coefficient of .281. It is also tougher than the 400gr Speer. I've used both.
Angle of the shot is another factor. I've shot bears facing me (the last three in fact were all facing me), quartering toward and quartering away.
If you have in mind a particular size bear, and it doesn't cooperate in presenting a broadside shot, I'd personally use something heavier than a 300gr. Right now, as a fact, I've just this week sighted my Ruger #1 in .45-70 for dead-on at 100 yds using the 350gr Hor. RN.
I've owned several Marlins, NEFs and three Rugers. This last one, I had long-throated so bullets could be seated "long", especially the monos. My bear load for this year is that 350 Hornady seated to 2.77" COL. It shoots MOA leaving the muzzle at 2322fps. That bullet was made for a .458 Win Mag and needs extra velocity for adequate expansion. I can push it to 2500 fps with ease if need be.
But the first bear I took with the 400gr Speer was from an 1895 Marlin Classic (22") leaving the muzzle at 1865 fps average. I practised with that load for several weeks until I could consistently put three offhand shots inside a 3" circle at 100 yds. That paid off as that was the distance to the bait. A good spring bear was taken with a shot just behind the right shoulder. Impact was around 1500 fps but the bullet was lost in field dressing after dark. It punched a 2.5" hole through fur, hide and ribs but never made exit. The bear went 10 yards into a patch of alders and died there. I gave it another as insurance standing on the platform of a moose hunting stand. That one was retrieved in skinning the next day. It retained 90.5% (362 grs) of original weight, and found in the offside armpit. Nonetheless, I prefer the 405 Remington as it will give complete penetration.
But a 300 bonded at 1800 should work well enough if both angle and range are right.
Nothing wrong with big if you can shoot the damn thing, but I've yet to meet anyone that shoots a rifle better the more it recoils.
Amen
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Here in the western mountains we consider Black bears a nuisance,killing fawns,moose and elk calves in the Spring like they do. A 45/70 is not a great choice because it won't reach across a draw etc (we don't hunt over bait here) I have a 45/70 as a saddle rifle and am quite familiar with it. These bears are easy to dispatch unlike our Grizzlies. I have no experience in Eastern Canada though.
We always used the Garret loads when we had 45-70s as our fishing guns in Alaska. Never needed it but a buddy used his on five moose and three bear two blackies and one Grizzly and it worked fine. Factory 405s did too forgot what other loads were used. In general the softest bullet that will still penetrate enough is the fastest killer. But at 45 caliber I consider them to be partially expanded to begin with.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Bwinters , sorry for the slow reply ,I needed the paperwork from the office as I knew I could not spell all of it.
The name of the outfitter is Pourvoirie Gerald Bonneau hunting North of Lac St Jean , Quebec supposed to be in business for 25 years .
Ever heard of them
I use to fly out of the air base near there it was called Bagotville don't know if name is still the same, also fished for land lock Salmon in Lac St. Jean. Great country then (50's and early 60"s ) don't know about now. Good Luck and great hunting. Cheers NC
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins' SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
Great bear! Looks like that bullet performed well since you have a dead bear but I like exit wounds on bears in the event they run off into thick stuff. On one of my bear hunts I helped the guide track a gut shot bear (not mine) through thick willows you could barely walk through. He was still very much alive when we found him and even with a blood trail we were within 20 feet when we finally saw him. It might have gotten dicey without blood to follow.
