Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer - SA Big Game Rifles

John:

You've written another very informative article.

I do have a question, though: you mention these (as well as other) cartridges are very efficient because of advances in powder, bullet design, etc. I know that there are many variables in this, but for a "regular" hunting bullet (i.e, C&C), what do you think is the minimal IMPACT velocity (not muzzle velocity) for a regular C&C to expand the way it should? As I said, I know jacket thickness and design, hardness, etc. all come into play, but just in general. I'm always reading about bullets either "blowing up" on impact or "penciling through," so there must be an impact window, with a top and bottom, at which C&Cs perform the way they should. I'm wondering about the bottom.

Again, thanks for another great article. This is the last weekend of spring gobbler season for us, so for those heading to the piney woods, good luck!

RM

Article link?

Mike,

I usually look for 2000 fps as the minimal velocity for any expanding bullet. Quite a few claim reliable expansion down to 1800 fps, and a few considerably slower. But for soft-point big game bullets I prefer 2000.

Wow, that a big and wide subject.
As a rule I would agree with John, but there are quite a few exceptions.
Most of the bullets made today seem to rivet a bit at about 1800 FPS, but not expand much. Some of the old loads do expand very well at much lower velocities and in fact never leave the muzzle at much higher speeds then 2000FPS. Some like the 45-70 (black powder equivalent) and 44 mag never even get close. Yet they kill very well.
Examples are:

Original loads for the 30-30 170 grain.
30-40 Krag
35 Remington
American 8MM Mauser load.
45-70.
444 Marlin with 300 gr bullet
405 Winchester
44 magnum.
Almost all Muzzleloaders.

I am sure there are several I missed.

Sorry, I just fired up the machine. The article is in the current issue of Sports Afield. There isn't a link that I know of.

Steve,

My article is about the best big game cartridges introduced since 2000. Consequently Reverend Mike was asking about spitzers for modern rounds, not cartridges introduced more than a century ago, handgun bullets in rifles, or muzzleloaders.

OK John, that makes scene.
I have not seen the article.

My experience is very much like yours, in that the 2000 FPS basement seems to be about where the mono-metal expanding bullets stop opening up, and I find the Swift offerings also seem to be a bit too thick up front for good expansion much below 2000 Impact velocity. They will expand some, but not all that much.

To the credit of the tough bullets however, I will defend them in my preference between the 2 extremes. We all want and look for the perfect mushroom, with 80%+ weight retention, but we have to acknowledge that life is imperfect. So if I am in a position to choose between a bullet that comes apart too much or one that opens up too little, I'll take the 2nd one.

I have killed BIG animals with solids and I know you have too. If you shoot right, a solid is OK and does the job. But a bullet that doesn't penetrate, or blows up to a point it turns, even when it is perfectly placed, is bad.

In my past experience the only premium bullet I have used that I trust 'close-up' and 'out-far' is the partitions. I am open to testing others, but so far as a class, the Nosler partitions have still be the overall best for me. In the near future, so of the bonded bullets may change my mind, but I have not used enough of them yet to have a valid opinion.

At ultra high speeds they can come apart too much too, but I don't shoot anything myself that exits the muzzle faster than 3150 FPS. And that's only one of my 270s and then only with 130 grain bullets. I usually shoot 150s and 160s in my 270s, but I do have one rifle that is far more accurate with 130s, so I do load 130s for that rifle.

Most of my other guns shoot at between 2250 to 2800. So a new cartridge loaded with a Partition at 3100 FPS or less velocity would be OK, I am sure. Over 3200 I would personally go with mono-metal "X" bullets of some kind.

Anything that fast is going to be fine out to 500 meters which is my own personal self-imposed limit for killing big game. Others may shoot farther, and they are welcome to do so, but I did it quite a few times when I was young and it's not fun for me. Plus I feel I am pushing my luck with super long shots.

Not that I can't make hits, but I know what kind of problems it can be finding downed game even at 350 to 450 years at times, and I just don't want to play that game over 500 meters anymore. So for me if I used an "X" bullet in a fast new shell, I am 100% sure I would be OK because I doubt such a shell would fall much below 2000 FPS at 550 yards (About 500 meters)

I'll have to pick it up.
I only have a few SA rifles on the 308 case:
243
260
7mm08
308
358 Hoosier (a shortened .358 Win case)

Reckon I'll need to find a 338 Federal..

I assume SA means Springfield Armory????

San Antonio. Duh.






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Apparently what we have here is yet another instance of many Campfire members reading as little as possible of every thread. Here several have missed the 5th post in the thread, from Reverend Mike, which contained this information: "The article is in the current issue of Sports Afield."

But we could continue on with any "SA" possibilities. Aside from short action, San Antonio and Springfield Armory, that is.

Swiss Alps.

I prefer an "MA" not to short, not to long "just right"..

JB always enjoy your articles, and perspectives.

Thanks!

Does MA stand for Maps Afield? :-)

Mother's ass.

South Africa

San Antonio was wrong? Damn.

How about South America?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA




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