Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The EMP threat

Fifty-five years ago, the U.S. tested a nuclear weapon high above the atmosphere over the Pacific. At the time, my father -- a nuclear weapons engineer -- was listening on our ham radio.

When the device exploded, we heard nothing in Albuquerque. But, in Honolulu, 1000 miles from the detonation, the sky turned red as streetlights and telephones went out. EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) effects from the distant nuclear explosion had struck.

Today we hear concern that cities might be destroyed by North Korean nuclear tipped missiles, but Starfish Prime should alert us to a more imminent danger: EMP. North Korea can launch an EMP attack before it has developed nuclear missile technology, and EMP may be far more deadly.

An EMP disaster from a high-altitude blast seems like science fiction: There is a silent flash high in the sky, and everything using electricity just … stops. Cars stop, power goes out, the Internet dies, satellites quit working, landline and mobile phone systems go out, and computers are destroyed. In a moment, we are back to 1850, as was dramatized in William Forstchen's 2009 novel One Second After.

While the total wipeout depicted in One Second After is probably exaggerated, the effects could knock out our power grid for months, and destroy critical communications and computer systems. As former CIA chief James Woolsey recently said:

If you look at the electric grid and what it's susceptible to, we would be moving into a world with no food delivery, no water purification, no banking, no telecommunications, no medicine. All of these things depend on electricity in one way or another.
In such a situation, there simply is no way to rule out the possibility that hundreds of millions could die.

To nuke one of our cities, the North needs to master ICBM construction, nuclear weapons miniaturization, precision long-range guidance technology, atmospheric re-entry vehicles, and fusing to trigger detonation at the right time after the hazardous re-entry. In contrast, an EMP attack requires only a small, light nuclear weapon and the ability to launch it as a satellite. Once over the U.S., it is detonated.

Already, two satellites launched by North Korea cross the U.S. every day.

Do they contain nuclear weapons? Probably not, but how can we know? Nuclear weapons don't emit much radiation until they go off, so they are hard to detect. I used to fly in a nuclear bomber with the weapon station just a few feet from my station with no shielding -- no need.

Meanwhile, North Korea continues striving to miniaturize its nukes -- and may have already succeeded. They have released pictures of a miniaturized bomb, although that may just be propaganda.

Starfish Prime used a thermonuclear weapon, a “hydrogen bomb,” which was very powerful but which the North is still striving to build -- a difficult task. But only a fission weapon or “atomic bomb” is needed for an EMP, and North Korea has tested several. The yield would probably need to be increased over their latest test, but getting there is only a matter of time. Fusion boosting the weapon to higher yield is not a difficult step. The North recently restarted its Yongbyon reactor, which can produce the necessary tritium.

The EMP danger isn’t only from North Korea. Iran has the capability to launch missiles from ships at sea -- the EMP attack depicted in Forstchen’s novel.

We currently have little defense against this threat. Our land based anti-ballistic missile systems are oriented towards warheads coming across the North Pacific, while North Korea launches satellites to the south, which later cross the U.S. from the south or north. The anti-satellite ability of the Navy’s AEGIS ships is unclear -- one satellite in a very low orbit has been intercepted, and ships need to be positioned within range of the orbit. Shooting a satellite down before it reaches orbit is another possibility, but AEGIS has a very limited window for such a “boost phase” intercept.

A decision to intercept would have to be quick – within a few seconds after launch for boost phase, or before the first partial orbit is completed for a satellite intercept. Complicating the decision process is the difficulty in knowing that the launch is of a nuclear device -- and any intercept is an act of war. Even if we have the capability, the knowledge, the decision time, and the will, our missile defense system is nowhere near foolproof.

If our infrastructure were better protected, at least we might survive an attack with few deaths. One estimate says $20 billion might be enough protect the power grid -- a drop in the bucket of national spending. Hardening communications and computing systems would also be needed.

A recent Electric Power Research Institute study reported that the damage from the delayed “E-3” pulse of EMP probably would not be crippling, although they cannot be sure. Moreover, the “E-1” pulse was not addressed, but it would take out the control systems, and might destroy power transformers from flashover. Other critical systems -- such as the internet and parts of the transportation system -- are very vulnerable to both.

Because a modern state has never suffered an EMP attack, our knowledge is limited.

An EMP strike would be suicidal for North Korea, but they may see it differently, or in some crisis, not care. In any case, the threat of an EMP strike would be a powerful deterrent.

James Woolsey and Newt Gingrich are right and it is time to listen: we need a national program to counter this threat. And we need to defang North Korea and Iran -- soon.

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-securi...from-north-korea-is-real-and-terrifying/

Ultimately, there can be only one. I would just soon it be me.

nothing civilians can do except wean ourselves
off dependence on all the electronic gizzys
that we let run our daily lives.


my father was on a ship when they made pudding
out of enewetak and had nightmares every night
about it until cancer chewed him up in his early 40's

It's gonna happen, and it's gonna be bad.

Just curious, would Fords E4OD transmission be susceptible to EMP? Thinking about swapping a 12 V cummins into a Ford 1 ton 4x4 which would solve the engine problem, but not sure on the electronic transmission.

I had a neighbor who is a retired electrical engineer (we moved to a different part of the city).

He has an older Subaru Outback and has "EMP hardened" it by constructing and installing a small Faraday cage in/around the engine compartment. I suspect he had something on the inside of the car as well, though i never looked inside.

He is a really interesting guy - has his own (albeit small) observatory on a plot of ground in the mountains as well as being a HAM radio operator at the highest level.

I used to watch him rig up a man-packable Morse-Code "radio" that he said he communicated with a fella in Oregon (living in Colorado).

His basement workshop was like an electronics laboratory. Oscilloscopes and all other kinds of meters and such i don't remember what all.

I'd say he was pretty well prepared...

There is this thing called a nuclear deterrent. They might be stupid,crazy but they are not going to have their country annihilated in a counter strike. It won't come from something we have that is land based either, but something that is swimming in the ocean.

Yeah, they don't want to lose their lights

I read Forstchen's series regarding this issue and it's a very compelling problem. It is estimated in his books that in the effected area(s) there would be somewhere between an 80-90% mortality rate at one year.

Life was hard in the 1800's for the sturdy people of that era; imagine our being thrown back there generally with out the skills, nohow, and hardiness they developed and learned up to those times?

Revelation speaks about two specific instances where 1/3 and 1/4 of the worlds population are lost in addition to the other calamities. Makes one wonder.

One thing we can say objectively is that the present trajectory of geopolitical politics does not give much reason for optimism.

Can't call the police. Who has a working flashlight to go see what the dog is barking at?

Food spoilage, then food shortage.

In winter, no heat.

Scary chit for sure.

This is why I haven't sold my 140 acres in the Catskill Mountains in New York. I have my own well and enough wood to keep us warm forever. My place has phone, cable and electric but I can do well without all of that.

I keep the barn friggin loaded with enough firewood for years and I constantly keep the hand-driven well pump in working order.

There's enough deer on my side of the mountain to feed my family quite well. Plus my 3 acre lake has a rediculous amount of panfish and bass year round.

I commute from NYC to my place every six weeks or so. Usually stay for a week at a time.

I'm no prepper, though. I have enough ammo for my rifles and shotguns to hunt deer and upland game to my heart's content.

But I guess I wouldn't last very long in a siege situation. I am down to three rifles and three shotguns. And down to only one pistol - which I carry legally concealed even in NYC - a Smith & Wesson Detective Special .38 five shot.

If the world goes to [bleep] I will be fine if left alone. But that wont' happen.

Not to mention the immediate breakdown in social restraint and roving bands of those who would take everything from you including your life.

Reading the books reminded me of the more recent movie, The Book of Eli.

Color me envious!!!

I hope you have a couple ways of getting there and it's not too far a journey.

Also, i hope the "locals" either don't know what you have or you are well-connected to them all.

And it matters not that the sender got nuked; we'll still be left in the dark ages.

Pragmatism at it's most tragic. 100% true, but tragic nonetheless.

I believe most people simply do not realize how serious this schidt can be...

Anyone who has *ever* been to/in a war zone can never forget the sights and smells of utter destruction.

Maybe an EMP strike wouldn't (initially) deliver that, but the invading parties thereafter certainly could. The movie "Red Dawn" may not prove to be too unrealistic....

Don't be envious. See my edited post. If I were left alone I could probably take care of myself and my family. I'm not of the mindset to hold off a siege if it came to that.

Your point about getting there and back is a good one. Unless I was actually there when the blank hit the fan I doubt I could get out of Manhattan alive. On the best days it takes 3.5 hours to get to my place.

Face it, only those who can live like it is the 16th century would actually make it. Maybe those truly living alone in remote parts of the country with water, fire and the ability to hunt, fish and farm would be okay. Plus nobody trying to kill them over what they have.

Let's hope it doesn't happen.

The sun can/has produced the same results as emp. via coronal mass ejection. Can happen anytime and may not be as localized.

Might be a good idea to get our priorities straightened out.

For less than 1/2 the cost of one F35 joint strike fighter we could protect and rebuild the grid when this kind of event occurs...or we could just ignore it, wait for it to happen, and stare at that boondoggle jet with starvation induced half closed, blood shot eyes and hallucinate as to what could have been.

I read Fortschen's book. It is a realistic description of life after the EMP.
Your little daughter needs insulin? Too bad. The drug store ran out, and is closed anyway.
No refrigerator to keep it cool. Your daughter will die.

Along with many millions of others.
I drive an 18 wheeler. The EMP will knock out computers in all vehicles. 99.9 percent of vehicles won't run. Better hope you have a 1971 VW van with a stick shift. No milk or chicken at the grocery store. No gas at the gas station, of course, your car won't run, anyway.

It would take about 4 days after the EMP and the slaughter would begin. Gangs, especially in the cities, who have guns, will begin roaming towards the suburbs, looking for food.
Unarmed suburbanites will be like sheep for the slaughter for these gangs, and people will be killed for a can of pork and beans in the pantry, a bottle of Jack Daniels, and the water in the water heater. You can drink it!
If the suburbanite has a pretty 17 year old daughter, it will be really bad for her, she will wish she were dead.

I have prepared as best as I can. I have 39 acres in the NC mountains, where I live, very remote. I have lots of food. Lots. I have water from a spring. Lots of guns.
Got a gas stove and a tank full of propane.
Got a wood stove and lots of wood.

I am geared up about as well as I can be. If an EMP hits, screw it, Let The Games Begin! I will give it a good try and we all gotta die some day, anyway.

After reading Fortschen's book I even bought a 1982 Mercedes 240d with a stick. This car will run after an EMP. Mechanical fuel injection. Battery fried, you can roll start it.

However, having read the book more closely, you probably don't want to drive it after the EMP.

All Billy the Hillbilly has to do is to cut down a pine tree to block the road. There are only going to be about 10 vehicles that will run in my rural county.
When I pull up to the pine tree, and get out with my Stihl, Billy is hiding in the woods. He shoots me in the chest.
Then, he gets my Beretta 92FS, an SKS and 100 rounds, and nice Mercedes. Plus a nice chain saw.

No, best to hole up and keep quiet. This means, if you have a gas powered generator, you might not want to run it.
That noise could attract some very unwanted visitors.

I hope it doesn't happen but it could happen. EMP can also be caused by a massive solar flare.

And, that Nip in N. Korea is nuts. Yes, if he hit the US with an EMP his country would be destroyed like nobody has ever been destroyed before. Word would get out to at least one of our nuke subs and they would turn N. Korea into a sheet of glass. But that Nip is loco, he might just light us up anyway.

There would be multiple fires everywhere. Any sophisticated aircraft would pile in. As almost 100% of the vehicles would be broken down there would people stranded everywhere without the beginning of necessities.

Just think if you were 60mi from home. It would four days walking without food, with weather vagaries, and who knows whom following you.

The cascade of problems becomes almost insurmountable.

Being on the outskirts of any major city will see bands of marauders or small groups getting what they can until thinned by the locals. Depending upon the population of the surrounding area, there'll either be more armed locals or more rogues.

The further from Anchorage the better. 😉

If you can see Russia from your porch you'll be fine comrade. 😁

"For less than 1/2 the cost of one F35 joint strike fighter we could protect and rebuild the grid when this kind of event occurs...or we could just ignore it, wait for it to happen, and stare at that boondoggle jet with starvation induced half closed, blood shot eyes and hallucinate as to what could have been."

SBTCO: Yes! We are the wealthiest country on earth. It would be so easy and cheap to protect the grid, and even the vehicles, at least the 18 wheelers that deliver food and gasoline. Why don't we take these protective measures.

I wonder if those living on the coast in remote areas would be better off than those trying to make a go of it in rural areas.

If nobody was trying to kill you it might be a good situation to live off the bay/sound/ocean in a warm climate. I'm thinking the Florida Keys.

Fresh water is always the problem, though.

Because the democrats would also want to add funding to the bill for beauty aids for disenfranchised transsexuals.

Seriously though, in a catastrophic EMP that targeted the USA would not be just a local battle, in a weakened and crippled time Russia would make a play for Alaska. They've got a major boner for the complete control of the arctic and really wish they hadn't sold it so cheap. They're building giant ice breakers like crazy. It's how civilizations change, conquest. Canada can't help us because they'll be suffering the same fate. Borders won't matter for the few scattered survivors. China will takeover San Francisco and it won't be so gay and Mexico moves Norte

We'll be happy to give them Alaska or at least above the circle in trade for some borscht and condoms. 😬

Yep. I got chewed out on here for taking trump to task for shooting $100 million in cruise missiles at that weasel faced dipsh!t in Syria who for all practical purposes is no threat to us here but...

How many transformers do you think $100 mil would pay for?

It's all about priorities. Real world threats vs. bankster induced "national interest" threats.

Are they the fix? Is it really that simple? I don't know, just asking.

Let's take a look at Atlanta. My brother is a big lawyer in Atlanta makes about $500K. Lives in suburbs in town, "inside the Perimeter."
His wife is a Hillary voter and dislikes guns. He has no guns. You have to be very discreet when talking about your preparations for this kind of stuff. One time I mentioned to my brother, the Bright Boy with all his college degrees, about the possibility of an EMP. He just brushed it off.
He has no idea of the preparations I have made.

My daughter in law is an exec for IBM, makes $180K a year, also lives in a $600K house inside the Perimeter. She dislikes guns and she and husband have no guns. Never bothered mentioning to her this subject.

These two families are prime examples of people who will be screwed after an EMP. In this case it would be heavily armed black gangs, would arrive at their doorstep. Let's see, how long does it take for a black gang to walk 10 miles?

So on Day 4 these 2 families would be slaughtered.

On the other hand, I have a buddy, Dennis. He is more into Survival stuff than I am. He lives about 6 miles north of the Perimeter, in Gwinett County. Hell, Dennis has more food, water, guns and ammo than I have!

So as the black gangs move north of the Perimeter they will encounter people like Dennis and they will get shot all to hell. Won't get more than 5 or 10 miles north of the Perimeter and they will all be destroyed.

At any rate life will be impossible, any where near a big city. And it will be brutal, and difficult, even way out in the countryside where I live.

Are you really that stupid? My guess is yes, if you think our counterstrike would be an EMP. It would make Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like a marshmallow roast in comparison.

Well then; you are a dumbass I'm thinking you've never seen a picture of N and S Korea at night.

DO you know how much it would cost to revamp the entire power grid ? We just had an idiot in office that spent 12 trillion dollars for absolutely nothing except giveaway programs.

I have seen that old picture many times. To think we would launch a EMP strike is assinine , the goal would be a total destruction of his regime and military might. One launch from a boomer would be his end.

I read that it was impossible to protect the power system from EMP.

You are the only one who's saying we'd retaliate with an EMP. Look at the picture and you'll see no electrical infrastructure.


But please continue calling everyone stupid.

Yes.....because they change shape and become transformed.

Watch the movie, it explains everything. 😉

Simple answers:

profit,

cost/benefit analysis,

head up the arse syndrome (head in the sand syndrome),

it won't happen to me syndrome; how many folks do you know in a take your pick (flood, earthquake, tornado, hurricane etc)disaster zone have even three days supply of food and water stashed?

Shall I continue? Until WE can find a way to hold the powers that be feet to the fire they will not change their ways. Infrastructure has been suffering for decades, I have little hope we're magically gonna address the issue starting today.

One does realize the grid operates in an early20th century manner in many places, except perhaps for some updated computer controls, right? What happens every time we have a major ice storm in the midwest/south? Or a windstorm in the Pacific Northwest? Blizzard /Noreaster? Would we be better served by having a bit more regulation in the power industry requiring ALL new service lines to be underground and each utility shows a 10 year plan to put all major distribution lines underground? Wanna hear the uproar from the utility companies? Major undertaking, but we are the good ol' USA, no?

What if this were to be done alongside repairing/replacing our freeway system and railroads, bury the things right next to the right of ways?

The EMP problem isn't the only one capable of wrecking the grid, it might produce the most immediate damage but not the only way to start things tumbling.

A short time ago a friend and I were near a power generating dam, high tension towers leading away in a couple of directions. You electrical type guys can tell me for sure, but I believe it's really bad if a couple of those towers go down at the same time, maybe on opposite sides of the dam, and those turbines in the dam get unloaded instantly. Seems like a soft point in the armor of our nation there.

But WE all know that, right, and yet our leaders do nothing about it.

Any bets on them getting some contributions from power companies or their lobbyists?

Good luck when it happens folks, I'm old and semi prepared and hope to get better prepared enough to last a few months at least when I retire.

Geno

Its a good start. The last time I read a report on this issue the big problem was the supply of replacement transformers both at the local level and regional substations. Things may have changed in the last few years(doubt it) but there was no surplus of transformers. They were purchased as they were needed and there was only one company that supplied them.

Damage to the more complicated electrical infrastructure would still a friggin' mess but at least the electric co.s could get power going again if there were enough transformers staged across the country that could be plugged back in. This would at least help with water treatment, pumping, sewage, possibly gas stations and truck fueling( food transport etc.). Otherwise we're SOL.

Numbers I've read, less than $100 billion could protect the system from catastrophic failure and provide enough rebound to get back to some normalcy within a year or two.

Reading comprehension skills an issue here I guess. Where did I mention we would retaliate with an EMP? Their electrical infrastructure is buried and protected to protect their military chain of command, they could care less about their civilian population

It would look Uber too...but only if that Fox chick was on the repair truck.

100 billion does not even remotely sound right. Nuke plants would experience meltdowns if they didn't have enough juice to shutdown normally.

Power companies are taxed on their inventories. That is why there are not greater numbers of replacement transformers stockpiled. The power plant I worked for had piles of boiler tubes inventoried because they got a deal on them when prices were low. They later sold all but a few because of taxes.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...-report-us-remains-vulnerable-emp-attack

"Baker told Congress that it would cost about $30 billion to harden power plants, electrical transmission and distribution lines, and their critical telecommunications and transportation systems against an EMP/GMD event."

http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...threat-nuclear-emp-attack-electric-grid/


"Protecting 200 to 700 critical transformers would cost $80 million to $280 million and additional protection against solar storms would cost between $8 million and $28 million, Harris said.

"The combined cost would be about $1 dollar per person residing in the United States," he added. "Isn’t this a ‘best buy’ to prevent an enduring blackout that would risk loss of millions of lives and trillions of dollars in economic activity?"

Found this



http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...threat-nuclear-emp-attack-electric-grid/

Doesn't have to be. There's a great infrastructure project!!!

MAGA

If we could build em with cheap mesican labor.

"they could care less about their civilian population"

GRAMMAR ERROR

I think you meant to say, "They could not care less about their civilian population."

Signed,
Grammar Nazi

Dear Grammar Nazi

I meant what I posted.

"They could care less about their civilian population". I speak 5 languages and English was not my first language.

Recommendations made in 2008. So dipchitt Obama sat on his hands.

Uh, gotta agree with both of you. Schidt.

"Could care less" = COULD give LESS schidts = I have the ability to care LESS (I grew up with this)

"Couldn't care less" = Could not care less = I have literally no fugcks left to give (But this is correct)


Best,


GanjaFarmer

" I speak 5 languages and English was not my first language."

Well, what was your first language?

Do you really believe that the leaders of Iran or North Korea care what would happen to their citizens if they attacked the U.S. with a nuclear weapon?

Kim Jong-Un is a dictator in the mold of Hitler, in that he is a delusional megalomaniac who exercises total control over everything and everyone in his country.

It won't be the lone survivalists that might make it, it will be decent (but shall we say unrestrained/ non-liberal minded?) people banding together who might make it.


Two good books dealing with this concept are "Alas, Babylon" (Nuclear) , and "The Earth Abides" (pandemic disease).

On tv yesterday Ron Paul said we dont need to do anything. He said NK cant even turn their lights on. On Tucker.

Sucker is unreal.

I'll give you a clue. They are roughly 3K miles across the Atlantic.

Atheists would be saying the GD word, even though they dont believe.

I thought Woolsey said a year ago it would take $4 billion to protect our grid.

Now, the other alarm is that we could be taken out with computer hacking.

As technology becomes the master, we approach disaster faster.

After Im gone, I could Not care less.

For those that are "well prepared", how do you deal with the rifle-equipped bad guy at the tree line who will turn your head into a pink cloud when you walk to your wood pile? Everything you've amassed is now his.

I think he is crazy but still has a strong self preservation instinct. He is beyond paranoid about dying.

It's time...

I feel confident the Norks will first be targeted by the somewhat classified USAF “CHAMP,” or Counter-electronics High-powered Microwave Advanced Missile Project a joint U.S. Air Force and Boeing electromagnetic pulse weapon, capable of targeting and destroying electrical systems without the collateral damage often associated with traditional firepower.

R&D on this project has been ongoing since who knows when but apparently its been weaponized for some time. Major General Tom Masiello,"CHAMP is an operational system already in our tactical air force.”

I've read Forstchen, A. American, and others. Interesting books, but I don't buy into all their premises.

Books don't get sold with less than catastrophic predictions.

Tin foil hard hats on sale at h f $3.99 save dollars over time, and a lot easier than folding all that foil paper!!!!!!!None of that stupid $hit matters ,all you have to do is stick your head between your legs and kiss your a$$ goodbye!!!

I believe he was a military historian and based his books on a commission report on this topic that came out simultaneously with the 9/11 commission report and subsequently was buried from the public consciousness due to that horrific attack and public attention.

That report however pointed out the general serious vulnerability of our electrical grid infrastructure and painted a fairly bleak picture of the potential effect of such an attack.

Forstchen, may have taken some literary license but in scanning the report (its online) perhaps not. Anyway, he tells a story well.

Maybe true but this regime seems to be (or that is the perception) that they don't care about lights, food, or conveniences for the people -- about anything really but acquiring these kinds of weapons.

Rationality is not a characteristic of that leadership.

Agreed.

He fears destruction and devotes all he can to prevent that, to the point of destroying those who could destroy him, including his late close relative.

A Faraday cage only works when grounded. So, if he's out and about when the EMP hits, he's screwed just like everyone else.

Parked in the garage and connected to a grounding rod, maybe OK.

BTW, DoD did lots of tests relative to EMPs. If one does hit, disconnect your battery, reconnect and retry your vehicle. Chances are it'll start.

Or so I'm told.

George: there is extensive literature our there on the net regarding the frailty of our grid. It is extremely vulnerable to many other ways to sabotage it and nothing as drastic as a nuclear initiated EMP. Basically, hit a few electrical hubs/grids around the country that are very unprotected and the cascading effect will ensure complete shutdown.

I ran into this article on how to prepare your car for and EMP and why you shouldn't bother.


Jayco

That makes perfect sense to me (though i am profoundly ignorant of the physics related to electrical "things").

I dunno what all or how he had everything set up, but now that you mention it, I believe he kept the battery disconnected.

Really, its not cheap, but building a room or an additional garage with a faraday cage would be the right solution.

Have to put some thought into which direction the pulse would come from.

In the book, it came from over the midwest (east from my location), but who wouldn't hit California or Seattle given the chance (southwest and west from my location).

Maybe an underground bunker IS the solution?

"For those that are "well prepared", how do you deal with the rifle-equipped bad guy at the tree line who will turn your head into a pink cloud when you walk to your wood pile? Everything you've amassed is now his."

Good point.
I am one of the well prepared people, high on a mountain in North Carolina with lots of food, water, firewood, and guns.
You can't see my house from the road, or from any other house. I am 3/4 miles up a private gravel road, there are 4 other houses on this road.

In the event that the S hits the F we would certainly have some bad guys out there who would want to kill people and take their stuff.
Of the other four houses up on my mountain, I doubt that any of them have anything put away for a disaster.
Three of those houses are uninhabited and people just come up there for holidays etc.
My brother lives in the other house with his son.

I know my brother has done nothing to prepare.
So I would probably get my brother and his son to move in at my place. That way we would have 3 men and 2 females. Everybody would have a gun, or two.

First, the bad guy has to figure out that my house even exists. Then, he has to figure out that we have stuff that he wants.
Then, as you say, he has to hide in the woods and blow someone's head off.
Well and good, but he still has to kill 4 other people.

This is reason number one why I have told nobody about my stockpiles, not even my brother. Nobody knows I got anything and hopefully they will leave me alone.

If a couple of bad ass guys figure out what a honey hole my house is, they hide in the woods and stage a proper ambush and kill my brother and me at once, then they would take the place. Not too likely to happen, but it could happen.

I have taken the reasonable steps to set myself up to give it a good fight. If I get killed 30 days after the EMP, well tough luck. At least I would get my name in the paper.

Oops, forget that, there would be no newspapers.

Jorge, I have thought of our national electronic infrastructure to be symbolized by that in the movie National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation if you know what I mean.

Along with Forstchen's book, I just finished The Forsaken Nation by Maloof which covers the same topic but rather covers scenarios, commission reports and recommendations and the political and economic lack of will to decrease our vulnerability.. or do much of anything about it. Ostriches have nothing on some of our agencies.

You should probably buy some kerosene and a mule. Get used to wiping your ass with a cob or old newspaper. Cob is the more green solution and doesn't have Chinese ink to give you the ass cancer.

I don't know much about this, but I'm assuming that you would not be able to run electricity to such a room because the EMP pulse would travel through electrical lines?

"You should probably buy some kerosene and a mule."

And I'd walk behind, bustin' them clods with ma own bare feet!

That mule, Ol' Rivers,,,,,,,,, and me!

heheh If the lights go off everybody best stock up on the Hai Karate and Chanel #5 'cause everybody's gonna stink like Watts on Welfare Check Day.

"Ode to 3rd World" will be the new moniker. Odor may be the least of anybody's concern.

Surviving such a scenario might be the least favorable option


For all the pie in the sky versions we seem to be set up pretty well just by accident

It's just how we recreate living off the grid


But lord I'd miss the grocery store, love that place and all the variety of good fresh foods available

Yep, most folks would have no clue they can bathe without power or running water...

Here's a new article:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...repping-emp-warfare-aimed-u-s-homefront/

There's a lot of folks in South Central that evidently don't have a clue they can bathe WITH power or running water.

LOL! Heck, grandkids here have been hitting the river every weekend! Not a
Whole lot of people to deal with and it ain't too deep for em!!! They have a great time!!

I'm not sure I buy into EMP as a realistic threat in the near future.

The thing about an EMP is - if your bugout spot is more than say 30 miles away, how will you get there?