24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
prdator Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
Guys,
That is some good work and words on RL-22. It seams that not every one has had the same results but no one yet has posted the horror stories that I have heard of.
I agree with AGW That POI change is the main concern that I had and so far it all looks good. A 70 to 100 fps change will not matter that much in the field.

I do know that Mule Deer had IIRC stoped using RL powders because of POI change. I truly wonder why some people/rifles have expierinced this and others have not.

I just need to buy a large quanity of RL-22 and try it in all ( most) of my rifle's.

DO any of you have any test with RL-22 and the 257 wby or 264 win???

Thanks
P

HR IC

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
Originally Posted by prdator
Guys,
I do know that Mule Deer had IIRC stoped using RL powders because of POI change. I truly wonder why some people/rifles have expierinced this and others have not.
P


There will be variation between cartridges with ANY powder because of pressure of the load, bullet weight, jacket hardness, volume of powder, maybe even primer. Some cartridges/loads may exhibit more/less variability with RL22 than others.

As far as testing is concerned, chamber temperature is important as noted. Shooting with a chamber that is cool enough--and not letting the round "cook" too long before firing, must be considered. Temperature differential between the "control" test and the cold weather test, as noted, is something to keep in mind.

Shot to shot varibility (ES) is a concern for me. When there is a large ES in a load--regardless of temps or powder used--it's telling me that consistency is not there. If I'm shooting hot loads, I don't want to go UP in pressure anymore either. Although POI ain't going to change at 100yds, at 400yds it makes me begin to wonder.

I suspect, as RL22 becomes more popular, Alliant may continue to improve its sensitivity and consistency.

For now, I'll stick with the consistency of the 4831's for my 243's, 270's, 06AI's.

Casey


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
AFP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Like I posted earlier, the reason some people experience POI and/or velcoity changes and others don't is likely do to a number of variables such as:

- How hot the load is
- The chambering in question
- The barrel
- Shooting technique
- The powder in question

It should really be no suprise that different people get different results. We don't expect each barrel to like the same exact load, so why should we expect that Brand X powder will act the same for everyone?

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
Originally Posted by Blaine
Like I posted earlier, the reason some people expereince POI and/or velcoity changes and others don't is likely do to a number of variables such as:

- How hot the load is
- The chambering in question
- The barrel
- Shooting technique
- The powder in question

It should really be no suprise that different epople get different results. We don't expect each barrel to like the same exact load, so why should we expect that Brad X powder will act the same for everyone?


Exactly smile

Casey


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,248
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,248
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by Blaine
Like I posted earlier, the reason some people expereince POI and/or velcoity changes and others don't is likely do to a number of variables such as:

- How hot the load is
- The chambering in question
- The barrel
- Shooting technique
- The powder in question

It should really be no suprise that different epople get different results. We don't expect each barrel to like the same exact load, so why should we expect that Brad X powder will act the same for everyone?


Exactly smile

Casey


AND:
Temperature
Humidity
Bullet weight
bullet jacket
bullet bearing surface
rifle twist
primers
cases
seating depth
temp of barrel
temp of chamber
temp of loaded round before firing
and on and on and on........ with any # of many many different variables that can and do effect pressures and thus effect velocities, accuracy & POI.
Seems to me to get good reliable test results consistency in the reloading process is the key. 163bc


IC B2

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
I started with RL 22 when I got my Mark V in 257 a few years ago . I don't know if I can still find my notes . When I finally tried the IMR 7828 load for the 120 NP in Nosler's # 4 manual , I got the velocity they showed as max with one grain less powder and E. S. very low .It puts the first shot from a cold fouled barrel in the top half or a 2 inch bull at at 200 yards from my hunting jeep rest and puts two more within a couple inch group . Killed a fair number of deer out to 326 yards from field rests .From Montana to the Rio Grande in November .

I quit lookin' !


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051
POP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051
2900 fps from a 375 RUM with a 300 gr?

Sounds like my 378 WBY,

how can you realize this velocity safely?

I know quickload is just a reference and not 100% but it says the above is impossible----at least safely.


[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]




Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
prdator Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
It is in the seiera book and I am below there max load. I have no visible pressuer signs (I know ). I would thing your 378 would go much faster than my rum???

You have to admit that a 300 gr tsx at 2900 is some kind of cool.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Pop,

Nosler #5 publishes loads reaching 2860fps. Thats not actually 2900, but its 2900 for all practical purposes.


War Damn Eagle!


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
prdator Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
280 rem,
What is the load that Nosler publishes????
thanks

IC B3

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Even POI change isn't that much of an issue,do like the Swedes do,RL-22 is a Swedish powder, check the POI just before the hunting season.You should do that anyway.But the real problem I have with temperature sensistivety is shooting groups,the chamber heat affecting velocity.Of course this changes with case capacity/bore relationship.


You can hunt longer with wind at your back
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,760
Originally Posted by prdator
280 rem,
What is the load that Nosler publishes????
thanks


375RUM: 300gr Partition or CT Failsafe; 100grs of IMR7828 at 2859fps.

Compared to...

378Wby: Same bullets; 111grs of IMR7828 at 2893fps.


Doesn't seem to be a speck of difference in ballistics practically speaking.


War Damn Eagle!


Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
prdator Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 847
As I said befor my load is 2900 (ISH) 2880 to 2910.
Imr 7828ssc with 100 gr was 2840.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
B
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
I don't know exactly how to weigh in on this as the temp/velocity variation stuff I bumped into mostly occured with the 7 Rem Mag and 7828, or IMR 4831. I would notice that velocities were substantially higher in the summer than the winter (10-20 F). But I also noticed that IMR4831 showed LESS variation in the 270 than it did in the 7 Mag and at the time sort of concluded that it was related to load density, ie there was less space left over in the 270 case than the 7 Mag. VERY UNSCIENTIFIC but it was my half-arsed guess.

Shot a whitetail buck in Alberta this fall; AIR TEMP was about 25 below zero. Load was 60-RL22-130 Nosler partition in a Kreiger barreled M70 270 Win.The deer died. Also had along a M70 in 264; load was 62-H4831-125 Nosler Partition which did 3300 back home.Nether rifle needed to be rezeroed and test shooting was done in bitter cold.

I worry about temp sensitivty too but I burn a lot of RL22 and H4831 and only note that once I get to a load with either powder, I shoot it year round to watch that point-of-impact thing. I don't know what else a guy can do except establish a general trend in the load behavior, shoot it a lot and get skeptical when a real "spike" occurs in the load's general pattern.I will also note that match shooters in my club push the hell out of their AR's in 223 to get heavy bullets stable at 600 yards; there are lots of blown primers during the summer months when temps are high; but some of them are burning Hodgdon Extreme powders, and don't have any problems...




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
M
New Member
Offline
New Member
M
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4
grin Hello prdator. 10-4 on your review and test results. I live in extreme northwest North Dakota and I know from experience, like you, RL-22 is very impressive from the hot days of summer through our -30F winters. This powder really is impressive out of my Browning X-Bolt chambered in .280 Remington. From my sled it'll shoot 1" to 1.25" groups at 200 yards with 140 gr Berger Hunting VLD's in summer or winter with RL-22. In the 30+ years I've been shooting \ reloading I've learned that I can depend on RL-22.

Happy Shootin'
NDMarksman

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101


5-6 years ago, after reading about the uber velocities attained with RL22, I had to try some......

Out of two 22 inch barreled 270's, I got 50-75 fps better velocities with 150 gr Noz PT's and BT's. Accuracy was as good as my old standby H4831 with fullhouse charges of powder.

Then I read about temp sensitivity and some of the RL powders........

Soooo...I still had 20-30 rounds leftover for each rifle from the year's hunts. I always record temps at the range when I chrono, I keep the rifle relatively cool, and don't let the rounds cook in the chamber.

I waited until we had some single digit nights, put the rifles and ammo under the camper shell to "cold soak" overnight.

At the range the next morning, with the truck parked right next to the bench, the chrono in the warm cab and the cable strung to the screens, I repeated my summer's shot strings at ambient temps starting out at 8 degrees and finishing up at about 15 degrees.

Lost ~80 fps average in one rifle, ~110 fps in the other rifle. And my ES went from 22-29 fps respectively for the two rifles, to 80-128 fps respectively for the rifles.

So.....for my 270's with Nosler 150 grainers, RL22 was temp sensitive--a LOT more temp sensitive than H4831 loads that I've since tested in cold weather........



Casey


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 589
R
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 589
Those tests of RL22 don't match what I have seen from other tests of RL17 and RL25. RL is very temperature sensitive compared to the Hodgdon extreme powders.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,239
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,239
My .243 shooting RL-22 was a whole 'nother animal couple weeks ago, than it was 2 months ago.

60 degrees vs 20 degrees was 2" left, 2" low, and 2" bigger at 300. Never seen such a drastic change.


Originally Posted by archie_james_c
I should have just
bought a [bleep] T3...


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828
Well, this is interesting, seems to me that is the reason to check zero often on a hunt if you can. Jack O'Conner wrote of this. I live in CT, so I zero my rifle here in Summer its warm, when hunting season comes long its cooler, so I check to make sure My bullets go were I am looking. Fair enough, my land is just 300 feet about sea level. I go to Colorado to hunt elk, and I am now at the 9000 foot level and low temps, well its cheap insurance to shoot a few shots at a target to make sure my bullets are hitting were they need to go. We get all tied up in knots with 1/2 inch groups and loads and when the seasons change, the power is crap or what have you because our zero is off a bit and the group we just shot is well bigger than than 1/2 inch group we shot in shirt sleeves in July in pretty still air, never taking in consideration the clothes we are wearing while hunting, or the wind. It must be because of temperature Sensitivity or some thing else. Scopes have adjustments for windage and elevation, and they are not glued to one spot.


"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

Anton Chekhov


Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
Originally Posted by prdator
Originally Posted by GSSP
Prdator,

Please enlighten me about your less than favorable experiences with Rel 25. I just developed an awesome 180 gr load for my 30-05 Ackely with it.



GSSP,

I thought it was temp change that caused my problem( but could have been do to a cahnge in lot#'s) but now after learing more about reloading and getting a good crono. I now think it was a max( over max) load any how as, I have had this happen to me with my 300 ultra and Retumbo. I was getting 3550 fps with a 180 gr tsx in my 300 rum) with NO pressuer signs and I thought WOW this custom barrel thing is cool but the next time I shot the same load I had primers falling out!!!!!!! blush

Allthough I have not used RL 25 since then and right now have no need to.

More test to come.
Thanks!!


When you change lot#, all bets are off! This has been my complait with Alliant powders since day one. I shoot R#22, 19, and 25. When you change lot#, reverify your loads.

Always buy Alliant powders in the 5lb'ers at least!

You also have to remember that results in Reloading manuals are for reference only and are an indications of what was safe for that pressure barrel that they were using with their lot# of powder.

Some barrels are faster than others while some custom barrels with custom chambers are a lot faster than sloppy factory barrels, and some lot# of powder are faster than others. You will have to use some common sense as to what is a safe max load in your rifle.

I use a method of putting loaded ammo underneath my arm (like a Dr. that was going to take your temp with a thermometer). I leave the loaded ammo in my arm pit for 5 full minutes then fire it, if you were on the ragged edge of a hot load, you will get extractor marks, case head scuffing, and perhaps very flat primers with stiffened extraction with the ammo that was in your arm pit for 5 minutes.

I think that R#22 got it's bad rap from guys changing powder lot#, I have known of a very slow lot# and a very fast lot#.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
731 members (02bfishn, 12308300, 11point, 10gaugemag, 10Glocks, 12344mag, 88 invisible), 2,736 guests, and 1,291 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,695
Posts18,399,928
Members73,820
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.111s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9046 MB (Peak: 1.0768 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 23:44:33 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS