Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Encore Hinge Pins

Has anyone fell for the bullcrap associated with the EABCO Accuracy Hinge Pin???
IMO it's only useful purpose is to make EABCO more money.

The design is to prevent any side to side movement and stop the pin from rotating. Of which, both mean nothing to the accuracy and performance of the Encore. The forearm prevents the hinge pin from moving too much to either side. The rotation is only a problem if the diametrical fit is too loose and the Acuracy Pin does nothing to help that condition.
If the pin is a press fit as it should be, there is no concern with side to side movement. Nor will there be any significant rotation.
So of what use is this "Accuracy Pin"

I tried the Bellm oversized hinge pin in my T/C Encore. It didn't seem to help much with the accuracy. What it did do was screw my gun up. It got to the point I could barely get the thing in and out. I mean Banging HARD with a screwdriver and mallet. I sold all my barrels and just use it as a Muzzleloader now. I have the Ez-tip extractor on it so I never remove the barrel from the frame. It shoots good, but I'ts just an expensive muzzleloader now. My father has one in his .270win, but he just has the one barrel. I will never by another T/C multi-barrel system, the quality is just not there. Semi-custom bolt guns for me, from here on out.

DaGriz,

I use Mike Bellum's hidge pins. The 2X seems to work the best on a dedicated barrel and frame, but it takes some hammering to get it in. I relieve the rabbit ear extension on the fore-arm so that it is not making any contact against the frame ( free- floated) which forces me to use over sized hinge pins.

I believe the tighter hinge pins do make a difference. So many shooters have different experiences with the T/C Encore system it is sometimes a crap shoot as to what works and what doesn"t.

I seen cases where T/C owners did not have to do anything and some had to replace everything to get their desired performance.

Leaves me confused as times.

Doc
I know what you mean. One of my actions has the stock hinge pin and it is very tight. My other two actions I went with Bellm 1X pins. They dramatically improved the accuracy as the stock hinge pins where quite lose.
I'v found some factory Encore barrels to shoot fantastic and some shoot extremely lousy no mater what I do. Head space is a critical factor so setting the resizing die for each caliber/barrel is important. Triggers vary immensly from action to action also. I have one that the trigger is great just as it came from the factory.

MarkG
Some hinge pin fit are very good as they come from TC other are sloppy as heck. Hammering with a screwdriver wasn't a very good idea. The pin should fit very tight. If it was loose and you changed to a tight fitting pin you most likely would have noticed a difference in accuracy.
I haven't found the Encores any worse than any other prrodcutionfirearm They all need a certain amount of tweaking to shoot accurately

That is my point, it wasn't enough of a difference to justify the hinge pin, which hampers the original concept of the Encore, ie changing barrels easily.


That has not been my experience

MArk
If your pin wasn't loose , why did you change it? There is no need to change out hinge pins if the factory pin fits nice an tight, I've seen many an Encore where the factory poin was tight

Sorry to hear you had probelms with your Encore. I know other people have been displeased with them also. Fortunately myself and the people I know, who have them, are happy as can be with them.
Changing the barrel from one to another has not been any problem for me. ALl my barrels shoot sub MOA with the right handloads. I do have to set my resizing die for each barrel/caliber to ensure I have mimimun gap from chambered round to breech face. Not a big deal and that contributes to the excellent accuracy I get.

I think you're right, the EaBCo pin corrects a "problem" that isn't a problem. The Bellm oversize pin actually does correct the built-in slop the factory stacking of tolerances creates.
However, the oversize pin needs to be used/fitted properly.

MarkG,

If the oversize pin is too tight in either the frame or the barrel(s), either the stock pin must be used OR the tight hole(S) need to be reamed to get the right interference fit, WITHOUT needing to be bashed in with a hammer and screwdriver. Yours could still probably be fixed, depending on how badly scored it is from the beating it took. It would now probably require a 2x pin and reaming to fit it. It's a shame you're not pleased with the outcome, but it surely ain't the pin's fault.

I've got 3 barrels and the 1x was really nearly perfect in 2 of 'em. One required a little TLC to fit right, no reaming but I just used Scotch brite wrapped on a too small drill bit. After a nervous 30 minutes or so, it fit like the others. It would have been easier to just buy a 1x reamer but it was soooo close I just polished it a bit and it works fine. The pin and holes need to be squeaky clean and greased well too. (I used grease with a little Kroil mixed in.) Anyway, yours probably isn't a lost cause, even if you're pizzed at it right now. I spend a LOT more time with bolt rifles too, but the Encore's a fun rig too, if you give it a chance. Good Luck!

Dagriz,

My impression after reading Mike bellm's web site on his barrel rechambering is "why would you buy a T/C barrel". I had a 45 minute conversation with Mike and told him just that. He gave me the impression that "all" T/C barrels need to be fixed.

I stayed away from them until the T/C pro hunter centerfire came out. I did not want to take the risk before that time.
I bought a 25-06 Pro hunter barrel and it has shot sub MOA on some days and averages 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches over all.

I expect more from my barrels. T/C will replace this barrel if I ask them to but I will likely sell it to one of my hunting buddies who wants it.

In my area T/C Encore muzzleloaders are "king". Not much center fire use. The muzzleloaders really shoot.

In my first T/C Encore ML I am on my 4th barrel to get one that would shoot sub-MOA. The first 2 were .45 cal and the 3rd was a .50 whose breech plug siezed. I will say T/c's customer service for me has been wonderful. Barrels replaced in 10 days.

Doc
I'm sure that MIke Bellm is correct, in his own mind, about Encore barrels. I believe that Mike is probably a perfectionist. Or perhaps I am extremely lucky. I have 4 TC centerfire factory barrels and each one shoots excellent with good handloads. All consistently shoot less than 1MOA. Two of them shoot 1/2MOA. They all repeat within 1/16". That being said I have seperate pillar bedded laminated forearms for each barrel, I have a dedicated die set for each barrel/caliber where the resizing die is adjusted to give me .0015 cartridge to breech face gap. I have 1x pins in my actions and triggers reworked to 2 lbs .
If this is what has to be done to all Encores to make them accurate , I don't mind at all as I love to work on firearms.
I have two custom barrels and they shoot great but I still have to adjust the FL resizing die for the caliber/barrel.
MY 209x50 BP barrel is pretty finicky about what bullets and powder it digest. With Power Belt bullets and 777 powder or Pyrodex sticks it will shoot MOA at 100yds. MOst other bulets opens the group up dramatically

Have you guys with the muzzleoader barrels tried having the QLA cut off and re-crowned. Quite a few folks have had this done and claim to have gained quite a bit of accuracy by doing so. (I have no first hand experience, which is why I'm asking)

After seeing a couple of the new Pro Hunter set ups, it does seem like TC has improved their QC. The triggers were much better than my early Encore.

DaGriz,

Thank you for your comments. That pillar bedding thing may be the answer for me, but only if I have done all of the other corrective/preventative modifications as you have sugested. I have done all except for the trigger and pillar bedding. I am trying to force feed the Barnes 100 gr.TSX down the barrel and
should try the Hornady 120 gr HP. That bullet was designed for the 257 Roy Mag and should hold together for those short shots at whitetails.

I "really like" the T/C rifle system but bolt guns are easier.

Doc.

Doc
When you put pillars in your forearm make sure that the forearm does not contact the frame in any place. My frst pillar job didn't help a whole lot and it was dricing mt bughouse as to why it wouldn't shoot right. After pulling my hair out for a week or better I found the foearm was getting tweaked a bit by pressure on the frame. Once a relieved those areas it shot exceptional. I made my own pillars from 1/2" aluminium rod and ground a radius, to match the barrel, with my dremel tool in each pillar. I have 1/32 of an inch clearance in every direction between barrel and forearm.
I also set the bullets back about .006 from the L&G's.

If you want send me your email and I'll share my favorite loads that work the best for me. I have 280AI, 257RbtAI, 6.5x284,
7mm-08, 22-250, 6.5x55, 7x57mm

I agree bolt guns are easier to tune. But I have been a single shot affectionaido for a long time. I have to say Encores are easier to tunme than my Ruger #1's.

DAGRIZ,

It was loose, hince I bought the pin. Not sure how that point got missed. Anyway it was a 1X pin, and yes I know about reaming them out. I just don't have as much trouble with boltguns. Freefloat the barrel, bed them in glass, and do a trigger job. Most of them will shoot an inch or better. Just my taste I guess.

What the above guys are telling you for the T/C tweaks are correct.

What the Bellm hinge pin does is fit THAT barrel to THAT receiver. In other words that barrel and receiver are specific to that HINGE PIN. A different barrel may be a FIT, but then again it may also have different pin hole variation. This is explained in Mike's info pages.

Also those who reload will soon find out the headspacing is very important for all topbreak actions for consistency of accuracy. This is one of the reasons rimmed wildcat or rimmed factory cartridges are very popular with T/C shooters. They headspace on the rim. Brass workhardens as it becomes used. And due to variations in brass thickness, working pressures, and sizing, it will not always size back to consistent shoulder spacing unless annealed when needed.

From experience: Most all T/C barrels (estimate around 80% or higher) WILL shoot most factory ammo into 2 inches for 3 shots at 100 yds. Being said, there have been some "bad" factory barrels produced with throat issues, rifling, crowns, etc. That is a factory issue. Some barrels also seem to be particular about type of bullet used (again, more than likely a seating or throat issue).

Doctor Encore and DaGriz are telling you guys right. As for triggers, experience here says to me T/C is top notch against anyone, when comparing out of box factory triggers. And yes, T/C triggers can be tweaked to be some of the very best.

oulufinn - Unless you are certain the QLA is a problem, experience here has shown that load development for the ML is most important. Out of somewhere around two or 300 ML here tuned, can only recall two that had a serious QLA problem. Keep in mind the QLA works best in the field for a "needed" quick 2nd follow up, especially in cold weather. The two QLA's found to be bad, appeared to be some kind of reaming gone wrong, viewable with the naked eye. Did a cerrosafe mold anyway to make sure. By the way, those two were NOT T/C's manufacture. And yes, the company involved did replace the barrels. Trying to say that anything that affects the "loading" variable seems to be the cause of most problems. Some components or whatever, including cleaning/swabbing methods just do not work in some barrels for the barrels BEST accurcy. It just takes work to find the "accurate" load, and that has been the problem in most cases observed here.

As always, my observations, and others I'm sure are different.

Edit: DaGriz -I didn't try the Eaabco pin, just didn't make sense to me when studying it out. He probably got this idea from the tape thing precision bullet mentions. All the tape would be doing is to position a regular pin to ride the same "face, if it is NOT rotating, which would seem to help for consistent grouping. Never tried the tape either, as found to Bellm pin to not be moving in it's fit anyway. The Eaabco pin looks to me as if might develop other issues over time anyway with the flange. The "force" fit is the way to go to mate two independent reamed bearing surfaces, especially if removal is needed.