Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The BEST damn Accubond vs. Barnes TSX thread?

Jeff,

would you mind to drop me the data also in a pm? I'm looking for reliable data on exactly the same combination?

cheers,
Gerry

Rost495,

I'm pretty sure the Accubond will penetrate an elk as far as it needs penetratin' from my .338. Hopefully. I'll be interested to read JB's article. If they were seeing bullet failure on elk-sized critters from calibers similar to my .338, then I'll rethink things!

I wish I still had the photo of the one accubond kill I've made. Well, I do have this:



That's the buck. 180-gn from a 30-06. I had another picture of the exit wound WAY back on the deer's right flank that made it obvious that the bullet had penetrated a lot of deer, then exited "with prejudice" as they say. That pic was on my cell phone when I ran it through the wash.

So I'm having a hard time imagining that a 225-gn AB is going to be in any way inadequate from a .338 Win Mag.

I'm super-curious to read JB's article now! If they had problems with 'em, I'll probably do a last-minute reloading fiesta and switch over to the TSX, if they will shoot that is.

-jeff

I think the Interbombs suck azz.Don't mind the way the Nosler looks.Ain't ever shot a Swift bullet.

Casey: All true enough and you never stop learning. After seeing some of the worthy opinions on here regarding the Accubonds, maybe I should reevaluate. After all, what the hell do I know; I've only shot one lousy deer with the things!

It's too bad we can't all hunt all year, all the time... a guy could learn a whole lot real quick that way! I guess a safari is kind of like that. Instead, we all have this 10-month offseason to obsess, debate, split hairs, etc!

The truth is, I think, that these ARE the good old days in terms of bullets and rifles. With CNC machining, rifles are much more precisely built (albeit not hand-fitted like ye olde days) and on average much more accurate. Same with bullets- better in every way. And scopes are the best they've ever been. In fact I bet I could come up with FIVE bullets I'd be perfectly happy loading into my .338 and taking elk hunting. And I'm picky!

I'm not certain that anything is better than the old surplus Euro army surplus pants I bought 20 years ago, though. Comfortable, breathable, warm, cool, warm when wet, tough, etc etc. I have other hunting pants, some that cost in excess of $200 (Rivers West) but the wool surplus pants rock. I ski in them 15 or 20 days a year, too.

(Not all are equal. I also have a couple pair of fairly poorly made surplus wool army pants)

-jeff

Jeff

I don't doubt the AB will work most of the time... Its that time when you have a shot that requires south to north that will be questionable.
Having seen standard cup and core AND partitions stopped totally from my 300 wtby and both 180s and 200s from average sized whitetails 3 times now, I try to leave nothign to chance. Rate its going I may have one shot at an elk.. I don't want to fudge on account of the bullet choice. Note one of the above deer was over 200 pounds and his NECK stopped the partition at just over 100 yards, IE had to shoot him with a 22 to finish him, all he was, was paralzyed and that from a side ways neck shot, not any penetration required.

Have no experience with AB type bullets but know that an X will hold together better.

BTW get anything but the worst shot on an elk and you would have no problem, probalby even with cup and core....

Jeff

Rost: You are better off to hedge with a tougher bullet; could not agree more.

My opinion is the south to north shot (is this whats called the Texas Heart Shot-or maybe I'm mis-interpreting south-north) is a very poor shot and should not be taken. Got to be fair to the game in which you are going to harvest-no matter what type of bullet you choose to use. Wait for the animal to stop, and turn broadside or quartering away. No matter how big a whitetail or mulie buck, elk or moose, bear, I would not take the S-N shot. Most of the time you can get the game to stop & turn with a noise, or just stay quiet and wait for them to turn.

This post is not to rile anybody up, maybe clarify to me what south to north is, or did I hit it bang on.

Your bang on.

Maybe it's because I don't hunt at the speeds that some people do- I usually am looking for a MV of 2600-2900 fps- but I just have never seen anything close to what you describe, Mark! I've had full penetration with every single deer I've ever shot (only 14 of them, so not a huge sample granted) and using many different calibers and bullets, from .32 WCF to 30-06. So a Partition stopping in the neck of a deer is just beyond my ability to imagine!

Believe me, I ever see that, I'll use TSX's for sure, I'd guess.

I'm thinking that I'll stick with Accubonds for elk for now, pending JB's report from Africa. For deer, in my "moderate" deer calibers (.358 Win, 7mm-08, 30-06) I don't think bullet failure is going to happen pretty much regardless of what I use.

It's amazing what that extra 300 fps that something like a Weatherby magnumb does for you, in many many ways. It's only another 10% or a little more in terms of velocity, but it's in that last 10% that things seem to go wonky, you know? As far as bullets failing.

All this TSX talk got me thinking I should run out and try them in my .358 for blacktail then I think... WTF, Jeff, are you really worried that a .35 caliber, 200-gn Hornady Interlock at a MV of 2600 fps is in any way not complete OVERKILL for blacktail deer? That's pretty funny, really. It's funny how our sense of scale gets skewed if we are not careful.

-jeff

The other thing that happens Jeff is that there is a point in the year when we're very far from last season and the up n coming season isn't quite close enough that if we don't watch it micro mgt and ballastic gack 301 can take over.....grins

Dober

Ya THINK?!

:-)

-jeff (bear hunting in 12 days... and I don't even particularly want to kill one! Just ready to stop talkin' and get out in the woods!)

MightyPeace

You have that right of an opinion. I simply have finally realized in some situations its a fleeting shot with NO chance of turning etc... as I've said many times, here at home on a meat whitetail, no big deal. But they do call an animal of a lifetime that for a simple reason, you get one shot. I prefer to be armed and capable if that time ever comes. Especially if dropping something like 30-40K on some of the hunts too expensive for me...
The shot is not unethical at all, IF you are set up for it. Most would shoot north to south, while condemning south to north. Same exact shot and results will be the same with the right bullet/cartridge.

Jeff
I tend to have not run my wtbys hot. IIRC the over 200 pound buck was with a 180 partition at just about 3K, not any faster. Extremely accurate. And you know what? I'd have never believed the results myself till I SAW it with my own eyes. You tell me a similar story and up till some years ago I'd have called you a liar. After guiding and seeing 300 plus deer a year killed, I started to see the better importance of a good bullet,strange things happen. Including that one buck I refer to, double lunged, cup and core bullet, was killed 3 weeks later running a doe, neck shot. Hole in a rib going in and out... we had bone frags from the rib, fat, tissue, and some blood. Deer had healed up and was 100% again..... I use what I have not seen fail. Simple as that. About everything else I"ve seen fail. Though I"ve not shot a lot of swifts or northforks etc....

Just my take which has served me well so far. I like penetration, probably why my MZ 54 slugs are 565 grains.....

Jeff

I guess you are saying that your definition of a good bullet is a TSX, then, right? Because you've seen everything else fail?

Well, that's fair enough. Having seen everything I've thrown at a deer SUCCEED, and nothing fail, I'm inclined to think of things like the Partition as a "good bullet". I think the Accubond is a good bullet; it lacks the track record of the PT, though, to be sure. The dang things do shoot like a house a'fire and the only one I've seen meet meat did a dandy job.

Next time I'm awash in money I'll buy me some TSX's and see if they'll shoot for me. The 165 gn TSX, which I think Brad uses, sounds very interesting in my 30-06. Likewise, isn't there a 210 gn for .33 caliber? That's interesting too.

I really appreciate and enjoy the tales and info that you more experienced guys donate to my threads and to the 'fire in general! Thanks!

-jeff

Last year I shot a nice sized white tail buck with a 257 weatherby loaded with 110 accubonds at 3550 fpc. The deer was quartering toward me at under a hundred yards. The bullet hit it in the center of the sholder and pretty much blew it to pieces (no saveable meat) went through the chest and guts and was recovered under the hide just in front of the hind quarter. The bullet had a perfect mushroom and retained about 50% of it's weight.
I don't care if it don't retain all of its weight if it penitrates like that especially hitting and smearing solid bone at that speed. I have shot or been around others that have shot 4 other deer and an elk with accubonds and they worked perfect as well.
My opinion is that the accubond is one of the best performing bullets you can buy to go along with really good accuracy and down range ballistics.
They open up really fast and yet penitrate really well do to shedding some weight and having not too fat of a mushroom which is exactully what nosler designed it to do.

I like the fact that it continued to penetrate after blowing up that shoulder. I don't like the fact that it blew up that shoulder, although that's more a function of the choice of caliber. Light bullet going real fast, etc.

-jeff

I have had regular cup and core bullets stopped by average szed whitetails, once with a 150gr power-point out of a 30-06 and a 140gr speer hot-core out of a 6.5X55 so i now err on the side of penetration.

Jeff, no offense, but 14 deer is not that many, shoot enough of em and you will see some strange stuff. All i know is it really sucks looking for an animal in the thick mountain laurel with no blood trail.

I have to totally agree that there is no "holy grail" of bullets that will magically drop the animal on the spot, most will run, so why no have a blood trail? Maybe im just used to bow hunting but i have become very proficient at tracking game so its not that unusual for me.

Frank, you must be on the same page as I am in the book! Probably same sentence...

Jeff

Yes thats what I'm saying exactly. I've yet to see any X fail. From under 50 yards, hard and fast and light, to over 800 and big and slow. But I could care less about bang flops. If I want or need that I'll shoot em in the head or just C1-2. BTW don't get so hung up on the cost... X series are only expensive in load development. Beyond that I never practice with them. I always shoot something else, generally a 22 or 223. Trigger time is that, I can transition gun to gun with no issues. I have drop tables taped on the stock or in my pocket.

Jeff

I've had excellent results with the TSXs, and I've had mixed (including poor) results with the AccuBonds.

When in doubt, go with a Nosler Partition and your results will seldom or never be in question. I'm not sure how many animals I've killed with Partitions over the last 25 + years, but the number has been considerable, and I've yet to have a failure: Accuracy has been tops as well.

Most of these questions are only as complicated as you want to make them............

AD

264bore,

Yeah, I do know that 14 is a small number. Hey, it's shooting 'em as fast as they'll let me here in Oregon! We just don't get the kind of tags some of you get... for a while there, if everything broke right, you could get 3 tags, and I did that twice, but they've shut that down and now 2 is the MOST you can get (doe and a buck), and getting that doe tag is far from a sure thing.

I've filled every tag they've issued me, except one year I didn't fill the 3rd tag. I got an elk that year and didn't need (or even WANT) the meat.

Anyway, I hear you. I do have to put my own experiences pretty high on the list of what I trust, though, and in 14 deer, using 5 different calibers and at least 8 different bullets, I have ALWAYS seen full penetration. So... personally, I have not seen penetration to be any kind of issue in deer, using the moderate calibers I choose.

Hey, since this is a TSX thread, I broke down and bought a box to try in my .325 WSM timber elk rifle, a Browning BLR lever action. Spendy little bastards, but they seem to shoot:



That last group is a max load of H4350 (67 grains) and should be about 2850 fps with the 200-gn bullet. It's 1.15" center to center at 110 yards. Not quite up to my best bolt rifles (or AR's, for that matter) but perfectly acceptable.

So I guess I'm on the TSX train, at least for that rifle. Since it's meant to be a closer-range, large-game rifle I decided that the TSX was probably even better than the excellent Partition I'd already worked up a load for.

Now I just need an elk to try it on!

-jeff