24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
If I can get 1/2" out of my hunting rifle, I'll be jumping up and down with a huge smile on my face!!

Just made me a little nervous that a custom action was that out of square as Mr. Kampfeld described.

BP-B2

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,564
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,564
Originally Posted by 300MAG
If I can get 1/2" out of my hunting rifle, I'll be jumping up and down with a huge smile on my face!!

Just made me a little nervous that a custom action was that out of square as Mr. Kampfeld described.


If you can't get 1/2" out of a full custom hunting rifle, the 'smith wouldn't & shouldn't get paid until you do, no matter what action it's on, and especially if HE recommended.

If he won't do it, I've got 2 on M70 blueprinted actions that will, and one is a 300 Win., that I'll sell to you.

MM

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,365
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,365
I own a Borden Alpine and have measured it up, down and sideways. Ditto several of the Stiller Predator actions, albeit I don't own one. Both are great out-of-the-box actions and will give all the accuracy potential a hunting rig will ever demand.

Another thing to consider is that occasionally even custom 'BR accuracy level' actions need a bit of tweaking to make them perfect. wink

Good shootin'. -Al



Forbidden Zoner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,124
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,124
Mr. Kampfeld,
Just to satisfy my own curiosity; did you check further to see if the divergence in the bolt face from the receiver face was the fault of the bolt, the receiver, or both? When you measure to the bolt face, is the action cocked or is the bolt stripped?
I have to say, I think .010 tolerance for the bolt to receiver fit is a bit much for a custom action. GD

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
I have to agree with Karl on this one also. I compared actions side by side with him in his shop one day. I do not find the Stiller to be better in any way than a trued/sleeved Remmy 700 action. In fact, I personally find it not as good. Let me just say, in all fairness, that the actions I've compared it to were trued and sleeved by 3 pretty top smiths. One being Karl, the other 2 being Dwight Scott and Greg Tannel......

I still think the Predator's a good action for the money and would not shy away from one, but it is not the tightest IMO. When turned upside down, you can get the action to bind up, if you ram the bolt home hard. I've not been able to get any of the other 3 sleeved actions to do this..........

Yesterday I was toying with a Gre-Tan 17 PPC with a Pac-Nor super-match barrel. The sleeved action was one of the smoothest and tightest I've felt to date........

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Still waiting to hear from Mr. Stiller about all of this.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Been there, done that. He was very polite. I'd rather not offend the man, because rippin' on his work is not my intention....

There is nothing wrong with the Predator action, for the money or for a huntin' rifle, whatsoever......

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Another point I should have made, is that having a hunting rig with a sleeved action, or very tight of tolerances, may not be the best thing in certain circumstances on particular rifles IMO.....

Kind of how a Model 70 is a better trigger than a Jewell for a die hard huntin' rig.......

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,522
C
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
C
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,522
I'm a bit puzzled.

I have been thinking of buying a few of Stiller's actions for some custom hunting/varmint rigs. If the tolerances are not what I might expect for the price paid for these actions, why not just buy Rem 700 actions and use them. Save the money for better scopes.

If I am spending the money for tighter tolerances, I want what I paid for.

I'll wait to read Mr. Stiller's responces, so I can read both sides.


futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,445
Coyotejunki,

I feel the same way- we'll just have to wait for Mr. Stiller to reply!!

IC B3

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,075
As I understand it, Stiller�s goal in producing the Predator was to offer the market a choice for an accurate hunting rifle. Stiller has several bench rest actions and was not trying to build a cheaper BR action. The Predator is priced little more than where you would be if you purchased a NEW Rem 700 action and had it trued, timed, boring the raceway and sleeves on the bolt with the work done by a good smith.

I have no doubt that Mr. Kampfeld could take an average Rem 700, do the above work and have it tighter and as true or truer than the average Predator. I also doubt that the average Rem 700 is tighter and truer that any Predator. Don�t assume that I don�t like Remington rifles. At this time I have six center fire Remington rifles. They include 700, 600, 660 and a 788. None feel as tight as my two Predators. Also don�t assume that the average smith could match Mr. Kampfeld�s skill. I know that there are none within an hours drive of where I live that could.

Of course all of my Remingtons are used and have been exposed to the rain, dust and mud. And I am sure they have loosened up some over the years. However the 600 and 660 were built by national known smiths, trued and slicked up but not sleeved. These two custom guns are not as smooth as my Predators. My Predators have not been out in the weather. Only one is a complete gun and has been hunted only 18 total days.

But had the weather turned bad with wind blown sand, I have no doubt my Predator would still work as it was built to take a little grit and keep working. Where a tighter action would jam. Guys, that it what Mr. Stiller is building and selling. A hunting action that it very accurate and will handle hunting conditions without jamming.

I that is what I bought. TWICE!!!

One other point, very few custom guns will recover their cost when you sell them. A custom build on a Predator will bring more of it�s original cost than a reworked 700.


NRA Life Member
TSRA Life Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by greydog
Mr. Kampfeld,
Just to satisfy my own curiosity; did you check further to see if the divergence in the bolt face from the receiver face was the fault of the bolt, the receiver, or both? When you measure to the bolt face, is the action cocked or is the bolt stripped?
I have to say, I think .010 tolerance for the bolt to receiver fit is a bit much for a custom action. GD


When I measured the bolt face, I did it with a stripped bolt, just like the Remington's that I checked. I did measure from the action face to the bolt lug seats on the Stiller, and could measure no difference from one to the other. So, whatever I'm measuring on the bolt face must be coming from the bolt or the bolt raceway. When measuring, I'm holding the action vertically, trying to let the bolt hang neutral. I have noticed that because of the .010 difference in the bolt to raceway, getting measurements that repeat was tough. One time I would get .001 difference across the bolt face, I've give the bolt a little wiggle and the next time it'd be about .0006.

Like I stated at the start of this post, I just think Borden Timberline and Alpine are a better value. I haven't seen either one of those action with bolt binding issues, even with tighter tolerances than the Predator. JMHO.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Good answer, and exactly what I was trying to imply in fewer words, except for possibly the resale thing. I feel if the name of a well known, highly respected smith is attached to a trued/sleeved/ 700 action, it could bring just as much from someone who feels the way I do about their work.......

Karl---back to work man, I'm chompin' at the bit here..........grin

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,614
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,614
Speedy has measured over 50 that he built and he did not get anywhere close to the results of Karl so we will wait for Jerry to get back. This could be interesting to say the least.


NRA Life Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Oh schitt,.........here we go......grin

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,742
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,742
MAYBE WE CAN START CALLING THE PRADATOR A "SUCKS PART 2"????


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered."
― George Orwell, 1984
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,149
my predator in .243AI rings steel at 200-300 yards with no problems it's more than accurate enough for a hunting rifle.

Michael


My biggest fear is when I die my wife sells all my gear for what I said I paid for it.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,614
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,614
I know folks who compete with one (single shot) at 1K in the BR game and do very well -- I will let Jerry post the details but there is not really much difference in the tolerances between the Predator and the Python for example. When Jerry gets back in and gets caught up a little we will ear from him.


NRA Life Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
I'm all hears....

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,451
BMD Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,451
Originally Posted by 2muchgun
Good answer, and exactly what I was trying to imply in fewer words, except for possibly the resale thing. I feel if the name of a well known, highly respected smith is attached to a trued/sleeved/ 700 action, it could bring just as much from someone who feels the way I do about their work.......

Karl---back to work man, I'm chompin' at the bit here..........grin
You too HUH?


Scott


Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
444 members (160user, 300jimmy, 10ring1, 1lesfox, 257 mag, 1lessdog, 48 invisible), 2,164 guests, and 931 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,595
Posts18,398,070
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.131s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9006 MB (Peak: 1.0536 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 11:47:50 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS